Fear them not... but fear Him that can do these to you

May 11, 2012

Christ warning His disciples: fear him which can destroy both their soul and body in hell (γέεννα gehenna)! Matthew 10:28

Please note that gehenna is distinct and different from the lake of fire (τὴν λίμνην τοῦ πυρός)

16 ¶ Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles...
26 Fear them not therefore...
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

1. What is Christ's warning?
2. What and where is gehenna?
3. Who is 'him' that is able to destroy both the soul and body of the disciples in hell?
4. Why do the disciples ought to fear him?
5. What happens when the disciples do not fear him, but rather fear men?
6. Does this warning have to do with the destruction in 70AD?
7. Or this warning about temporal destruction during the intermediate state between physical death and resurrection to eternal glory?

I would appreciate your help with those questions. Thanks.
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PJ Walters
I have similar questions, too. May I share this?

Penny
In my opinion, this is speaking of a spiritual death... Which is worse, natural death or spiritual death?

Johnny
Is gehenna the literal place, that the rich man dwelled, or was that parable a complete allegory, to show that the prophets and Jesus' teaching are sufficient, without extraordinary, physical events. If literal, was the rich man's ultimate destination, hell. If not, then what action of God, mercy, love, to change the rich man's spirit, into one that God can be with, perhaps eternally in heaven. If so, is there a distinction without a difference, in gehenna and hell?

Charles
Specifically, Gehenna is a real place outside the city of Jerusalem. It certainly does not illustrate the eternal lake of fire. It is a place where something utterly useless is discarded into an everburning smouldering rubbish fire. A viper would be thrown into this smoldering fire where it would twist and skirm unable to escape. A common snake would be thrown into the hay where it would eat rats and rodents.

It is not about correction, purging or penitence but disposing of things useless. However not in an eternal destruction or ultimate sense.

Sing
Penny, context precludes that notion.

Sing
When does a man enter eternity: at his death or at the general resurrection?

Charles
I believe it is about temporal destruction between death and resurrection to eternal glory?

Johnny, you said, "...then what action of God, mercy, love, to change the rich man's spirit, into one that God can be with, perhaps eternally in heaven." the Catholics have already solved that with 'Purgatory'! There is no purging beyond the grave!

I reject the idea that Jesus gave a parable about the beggar and the rich man. The people can be fictional, if I may surmise, but the place is real and Jesus is telling us that there will be children of Abraham in both places. No, it is not alegorical but inclusive of the apostles' teaching!

Sing
Luke 16: 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
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That place of torment can be avoided. So it cannot be the eternal lake of fire!
He called Abraham 'father' three times!

Sing
A man's place in the eternal lake of fire is determined solely by the passing over, the preterition, and non-election to eternal salvation.
Re 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Charles
Sing, it is so real and i am so excited about dying. To live is Christ but oh to die...I want to experience divine justice.. I've never seen it here on earth...so much injustice. Nobody ever listens to me here (oh there are a scattered few) but there people listen and what we say is important. I live every day here struggling to be heard...nobody pays me any attention. There is a sword that divides me from the ones I love. They don't listen. My Mother, Father, brother, wife and daughters don't hear me. I struggle with feeling insane, my actions are bordering on insanity. I will stand in front of a large institution this morning before going to work pacing in front of the place like a wild man, insane. Who do you know who does this? I am an embarrassment to my wife and daughters.

I know where I am going!!! It is more real than this earth with its fading splendour!

Charles 
inheriting the kingdom and going to heaven is not the same thing!

Sing
Michael, do you understand what 'LIKEWISE' means? So what perishing is spoken of? You need to go BEYOND sound byte. Sound byte does not edify.
Rightly dividing the word of truth does.

Charles
that is why I don't paste/quote scripture! Seems that scripture is a superstitious amulet that brings good luck!!!

Johnny
Would the soul or person (both died, according to the story of Rich Man Poor Man), so better to say spiritual being, of the person tormented in Hades, Gehenna, the place where a gulf separates two places, visible to each, BE IN HELL ultimately, or is it not known. As to eternity, that is a concept, beyond physical, so we, in the physical, are certainly in spiritual eternity, yet as brief as the blowing wind. In that sense, we are now in eternity, both our souls, spirits, bodies, all whatevers.

Penny
The question should be... when does a man have eternal life??? After he has died & been resurrected... or after he believes on the Lord Jesus Christ?

Sing
Penny said, "The question should be... when does a man have eternal life??? After he has died & been resurrected... or after he believes on the Lord Jesus Christ?
=========
Your question: when does a man have eternal life?
My question: When does a man enter eternity?
They are different questions, and both are legitimate.

Your question requires this answer, 'When God effectually calls that man out of his native state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation.'

Is an effectually called man with eternal life still in time or has entered eternity?

Sing
Michael, if you will not answer questions, please cease commenting. A privilege to comment here is coupled with the obligation to respond to questions with respect to the comments made.

That's the rule of engagement here.

A liar boasts, "We all have to repent, and overcome all sin."

The Bible says, "8 ¶ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

[Michael, has deleted all his comments]

Sing
Michael,
You quoted,
Luk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
I asked, "Do you understand what 'LIKEWISE' means? So what perishing is spoken of?

I have said, your privilege to make comments here REQUIRES you the duty to answer legitimate questions concerning your comments. If you don't abide by this rule, you will lose the privilege. Understood?

So, answer the question please before you go blah blah blah some more! Thanks.

Charles
Michael, If the child of God won't repent he will perish in hades. If the unregenerate won't repent there will be no results. It matters nothing for him to repent.

Robert
Sing I don't think it is saying destroy YOUR souls it is just saying souls, I don't think it is a threat to disciples but a reminder of who the disciples serve. Also when the rich man calls Abraham father he could be mistaken as the Jews are now just as our Lord said you think you have Abraham to father see John 8

Charles
he was not just mistaken but mistaken three times....some people never learn!

Sing
That's a silly stupid lamb indeed - afflicted with the disease of sound-byte.

Here is the text:
13:1 ¶ There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

So tell me, what is the perishing spoken of, and what is the LIKEWISE perishing spoken of?

Penny
Sing, you asked, "Is an effectually called man with eternal life still in time or has entered eternity?"

I'm not sure how you define effectually called? ... being born of the spirit? or called to be a disciple? (Both are effectual... active & powerful) But I think the point is that "eternity" (which I am guessing could be a synonym for Heaven?) is that we will be in the presence of God. And this all we really know for sure...

Well, the Bible teaches that if we love one another then God is in us! That is having everlasting life inside this mortal frame... indeed is one is born of God's spirit, they are already eternal... for though they will die... yet will they live!

It is the exact same pattern as our spiritual life in this world. If we are living in the presence of God... with God dwelling inside our mortal frame... IF we are loving our brethern.... we have eternal life... we are enjoying the earnst of our inheritance. This is the GOOD NEWS of the kingdom! AMEN! And what Wonderful News it is!

Penny
God destroys to rebuild... He has to destroy that spirit of error... that old man... that lust of the flesh... to save our souls... (not eternally of course!)

Robert
Sing your text is clearly a timely perishing of the flesh not eternal, but your original text was not one you quoted last so question 1: Christ is not warning but reminding who they serve. As I said before the text says souls, not your souls.

Sing
Robert, is the period between death and resurrection to eternal glory considered timely or eternal?
'as I said before the text says souls, not your souls': are you suggesting that the words of Christ have no relevance to the disciples then?

Robert
Since the body is still in the ground and not raised and we are still in time time is a measurement of eternity that is why the sun and moon where placed in the heaven. when we arrive at home there will be time no more as there will be no more sun and all the elements shall be burned up and a new heaven and a new earth will be. Our spirits are eternal now as we have been given eternal life our bodies will die and be raised up a new glorified spiritual body, then we enter eternity a complete being. As far as the Word of Christ having no relevance that would be insane but the relevance may simply a reminder as to whom they serve as an encouragement and not a warning

Sing
Robert @ 'Time is a measurement of eternity...'
Could you please explain what that means?
Are you now in time or in eternity?
And when you breathe your last will you enter eternity, OR will you still remain in time until you are resurrected into the state of eternity?

Robert
Bro Sing eternity goes from everlasting to everlasting we can not comprehend eternity as God knows it Time is set in eternity like a segment on a line is set in an infinite ray in geometrical terms. eternity was present before God set the sun and moons for signs and seasons and for days and years for our sake, God needs not time. As to whether I am in time or eternity I am in both I was given eternal life before the world began that was before time I understood that I had eternal life when I believed the Gospel that happened in time. The Sun and Moon are gods clock to measure days which are only real to us in time not to God He dwells in eternity and always has The sun and moon are like the clock on your wall it just measures a passing of moments of eternity. Time only exists for us here on earth so when I die I leave time and only exist in eternity, I will be in my spirit with the Lord who dwells in eternity . As we have two natures we dwell in time and eternity time will end but we go on a segment on a line has dots it is just a way of measuring a part of infinity.

Robert
Back to the original questions I re-read and am sure of encouragement to the 11 but one was Judas the warning you see may have been for him. All disciples are not in Christ, as evidenced by John 6:66 (oh no the number of man). Also just a note on places having different names in scripture like lake of fire and Gehenna, they could be the same place ie: Salem, Jerusalem, City of David, and Sodom and Egypt are the same place with different names for different reasons.

Robert
Bro Sing I have noticed you are very interested in the possibility of a temporal judgment between death and the resurrection, What would be the purpose of that from God's perspective given that we all are as an unclean thing and our righteousness are as filthy rags and when resurrection happens we shall be made perfect in every way? it is not that we must learn here to take to heaven. We must be changed! Timely judgments from God are to correct our walk here not to perfect us for eternity, He does not punish as wrath but as a Father who loves His children. The Apostle Paul said he was the chief of sinners but also said he knew is was far better to depart and to be with the Lord, Is our Lord still in Hell? No there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. For that I am very Happy or blessed (Matt 5) Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness for they shall be filled. Amen and Amen I hope you do not look to yourself for justification but only to Christ Jesus. I like your great desire to know truth but I also knew a man many years ago that got so far off but splitting individual words etc he really I think did great harm to God's children .I am a nobody so whatever I say it comes without any training or schooling just what I think I have learned these last 23 years and each day goes by I don't get better or more acceptable I get worse I see things about myself I hate and am powerless to change all I can do is suppress by grace.

Robert
Some would say I am a reprobate deceived threefold child of hell, but I am what I am by the grace of God. I stopped trying to figure out who was or was not born of the spirit many years ago. When I look to me I see darkness when I look to Him I see light I hope some reflects off me like the sun and moon the moon being the church

Robert
I know you know these things I just wanted to help and remind all of us who read your posts as some have a works self justifying almost anti-Christ feel I pray that those who examine themselves for assurance will simply look to Christ as self examiners as I once was always find fault with others may our Father be gracious.

Robert
I did not mean your posts have that feel but some of the comments sorry I am stupid

Sing
Give me 5 weeks to read and digest your comments! Need not to worry... not the slightest trace of works-justification here with me!

Johnny
Do you, Sing, consider the possibility of dwellinig in gehenna, then being with God forever in heaven; or, conversely, being in Abraham's bosom or equivalent (the other side of the gulf affixed so those may not move from one area to another), but then spend eternity in the lake of fire? If not, why the distinction, as I believe there is, a temporary place before final judgment. If so, under what conditions, spiritually, may one go from the bad to the good, or good to the bad?.

Sing
Good questions. My present concern is the honest interpretation of the text... and not the practical implications of the truth yet. Get the truth right, and the practical implications will come naturally. Is there such a temporal place of chastisement between death and resurrection to eternal glory? That need to be settled first.

Johnny
I would agree that the place of holding (purgatory, if you will), according to Jesus' story of the rich man and poor man, is literally torture or peace, and that it is not conditioned on anything said afterwards, as Jesus stated "they have the prophets, if they will not listen to them, they would not listen to the dead returning from torment" (paraphrased). And, it is not the final judgment, though an indication, such tbat no man can change the consequence of the lives. If that's where you are going. At least that is how I have been taught, and consider truth, from those passages.

Sing
One's eternal destiny is determined SOLELY, WHOLLY, COMPLETELY, EXCLUSIVELY by the finished work of Jesus Christ. Let that be stated as clearly as possible.

I am just taking SERIOUSLY Christ's warning His disciples about avoiding hell! There is a hell to be avoided by His disciples. And please let it be stated VERY PLAINLY tell: hell and the lake of fire are DISTINCT.

Robert
a temporal place of chastisement between death and the resurrection? Sing I guess we will all end up there I will see Peter there to he denied the Lord I am sometimes fearful of man. Sing I jest, I also have wondered about the rich man and Lazarus and the difference between Hell which sometimes is just the grave and Gehenna which I think was a pit of burning refuse outside of Jerusalem. In the old testament it is said the dead go to a place of silence. So I as with you just don't know what the story is about but I do know there is no judgment, chastisement or any thing like that between death and the resurrection for the perfectly redeemed child of grace. Brother i am thankful for your quest for truth and can understand you puzzling about this question. Did Dr.Gill make comment on this I don't have any commentaries or I would check for you.

Robert
I am truly an idiot I meant to say an early death or hell as being the grave is our warning to obey or get sick and even die see 1 Cor 11:30

Sing
Robert, "I will see Peter there too he denied the Lord "
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Mt 26:75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.
Lu 22:62 And Peter went out, and wept bitterly.

Penny
Sing, what is the distinction between hell and the lake of fire?

Sing
Read this, and tell me whether there is a distinction.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Christ warned the disciples of the danger of ending up in hell, but NEVER of their danger of ending up in the lake of fire.

I'm probing and learning. Thanks for your interest.

First off, hell is temporal.
The Lake of fire is eternal.

Penny
Thanks for your explanation! You referenced Rev 20.... What is that death and hell? natural death, spiritual death?

And since you're referencing the "great white throne" judgment, does that mean that you believe after resurrection God will judge us according to our works?

Penny
Or was that in reference to the temporal?

Robert
Penny yes we will be judged according to our works and they will be found as perfect as Christ's are because all the He is we are in Him!! Col, 2:10 Amen

Penny
hmmm... I dunno Robert, are you sure that is eternal?

Robert
Yes Penny see Hebrews 10:14 we are perfected forever in Christ

Penny
I believe we are perfected forever in Christ, but I was asking because I believe we were judged eternal in Christ before the foundation of the world. I don't believe in an "end-time" judgment... but an "in time" judgment.

Robert
Penny, I think Rev 20:12 - 15 We all stand to be judged but we who were chosen are found perfect in Him according to their works

Penny
Yep! And I think that is an experience we go through in this life... At least I hope so. All of the revelations teach that "entering in" to this new heaven and new earth is based on our works... the ones that overcome... and the works involved is to believe, and not bow down to the beast. Not "good deeds of the flesh" but "works through the spirit". God had to of judged Christ for Him to come out of the grave right?

Robert
When God judged Christ we were set free there is nothing required of us not even faith, we don't have faith before the new birth. God is just and the Justifier.

Penny
There is nothing required for our eternal salvation... Amen! But to be partakers in the earnst of our inheritance... to enter into that spiritual kingdom... there are requirements... To who much is given, much is required.

Robert
Amen. 

Divine_Sovereignty and Human_Responsibility In the Context of Redemption

Divine_Sovereignty and Human_Responsibility 

In the Context of Redemption

 

May 8, 2020

Divine_Sovereignty and Human_Responsibility In the Context of Redemption

Divine sovereignty relates to God's eternal decree, and activities of purposing, accomplishing, applying, and consummating the ETERNAL SALVATION to the elect, thus perfectly fitting them for eternal glory. This is entirely MONERGISTIC.

Human responsibility relates SPECIFICALLY to God's children ONLY - those already effectually called out of their native state of sin and death to that of righteousness and eternal life in Jesus Christ - i.e. their duty to obey their Father's will for them for their TEMPORAL SALVATION. This is SYNERGISTIC.

The grace of God working in them OBLIGATES them to certain definite responsibilities.

God's children - those freely bestowed with eternal salvation - are held responsible to believe the truths of their redemption in Christ by God's free grace and to live soberly, godly and righteously.

The 'reformed' people are quite confused and deluded on this basic matter.

God's moral creatures are under the obligations of the covenant of creation.

God's redeemed people are under the obligations of the covenant of redemption.

A biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology.

--------

Titus 2

11 ¶ For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
15 ¶ These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

A Pastoral Letter

A brother who has a hearty concern for our soul
is a RARE, and priceless jewel.

  

On Dec 25, 2007, a church member wrote:

Dear Pr Lau,
I apologise for not being able to speak with you on the phone. I guess that you must be wondering why I did not turn up for any of the Ancient Landmarks talks. I did not come because I wanted to spend time with my family back home. I don’t come home that often nowadays because I am busy with work and studies. I do realise that I am not discharging my duties as a member of our local church in Sungai Dua. I know you all love me in the Lord and I apologise that I did not give you the joy of my fellowship.

Probably, the primary question in your mind is, have I become disaffected? I don’t know how to answer that question. The truth is, it is hard to continue in the ways that our churches have gone throughout these years. For all these years in SD2, I must admit I have distanced myself from many Christian friends that have come my way. As we have rediscovered truths we end up even losing more brethren in the Lord when salvation is solely by the grace of God and that should make us more humble.

I have seen how Brother Kay El tries to lead the bible study in KL and it is very discouraging and demoralising and worse still, he loses many Christians. Sometimes we wonder what is the point at all, of trying to convert these people and pushing them to change. After all, many believers are also benefitting from ministries in their own churches like BSF and the like. BSF itself may not articulate our kind of convictions in that detail but I have seen their worksheets and many people have been blessed through their ministries.

I am not planning to quit or anything like that. But I know that the church cannot endure a brother who walks disorderly. If when such a time that the church decides that I should be removed from membership, I will accept the decision and willingly submit my resignation. I will leave quietly without causing any stir.

Your unworthy brother
---------

 Dear Brother

It is good to hear from you. I am relieved to hear your acknowledgement that all at Sungai Dua Church love you in the Lord - for that is a truth we gladly own. You and Brother Kay El, and Brother Jo-Siah as well, are constantly remembered before the Lord at the church corporate prayers - not only because you are in covenant with the body of Christ here in Sungai Dua, but also because we do love you, and desire your fellowship, in the Lord. The church body longs to see of her non-resident members (by necessity) whenever divine Providence bring them back to Penang.

We are mindful that you are busy with studies and work, as well as courtship, which is why you are remembered before the Lord without fail each time the church meets... that our gracious Lord would watch over you and guard your heart from being distracted by these lawful and legitimate cares of life, that you will be vigilant and watchful to guard your heart and devotion unto the Lord. We have seen good and fervent children of God snared and choked by these legitimate cares because of carelessness and negligence. They regress into a state of unfruitfulness - as in the parable of the sower. This explains why we pray especially for non-resident members to be kept and preserved. By God's grace, we are our brothers' keepers, to watch out for the saints that the Lord has been pleased to knit together as a church of Jesus Christ.

We do appreciate and sympathize with your desire to spend more time with your parents. It is a godly thing to want to honour our parents by spending time with them. May our Lord bless you richly for your desire to obey and keep His commandment. However, obeying that commandment needn't keep you from assembling with God's saints more frequently during the last SEVERAL days you were back here in Penang.  In better times of spiritual health and appetite, you would strive to be present at such spiritual feasts - like those from KL who took leave to be present at the meetings in Penang. There is that thirsting and hungering after God's kingdom and His righteousness. Be honest with the Lord and your brethren as to why your fellowship with the brethren and the hunger for the ministry of the Word has DIMINISHED so much. A good medical doctor knows the absolute importance of an honest and accurate diagnosis of a disease if a cure is to be found.

You and I would agree that obeying BOTH the commandments of the Lord - i.e. honouring our parents by spending time with them, and not forsaking the assembling of the saints would have been a DOUBLE honour to God, and double blessings to you. The Lord does give grace to each of His children that they are able to observe both His commandments - to His glory, and the edification of the brethren, and our own spiritual good. There is more than enough room for both in a spiritual-minded child of God. Neglecting either one not only robs our God of His glory, but it also deprives both yourself and the brethren the spiritual blessings. Our Lord has said, 'My yoke is easy, and my burden is light... and ye shall find rest unto your souls.'

The incident recorded in Matt 12:46-50 is an appropriate reminder: "46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.  47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother."

When we are spiritually unwell and heavy-laden, even the assembling with God's saints for public worship becomes burdensome, instead of being a spiritual delight. Our minds become lethargic, weary of instruction, and despise godly admonition. In such a sad state, may our Lord enable each one of us to come to our senses, and cry out, "Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit." Otherwise, one would only backslide further, and suffer the chastisement and scourging of our loving Father, Heb 12.

The best of God's saints do go through a dry period in their pilgrimage through this world. Trials and cares of the world abound, and we are so inclined to neglect the appointed means for our further sanctification  The strongest may become weary of the race and the good fight of faith. Our Father gives us brethren to bear one another's burden in our journey through this world to our celestial home, and glory. I was much edified and blessed to hear the message on 'The Purpose of the Church' by Brother Jonathan last Sunday morning. You heard it too. We are reminded of our Father's rich mercy and grace in providing us fellow brethren to care and watch out for one another as we make our journey through this hostile and perverse generation.

The issue of disaffection does not cross my mind. Your spiritual well-being is my chief concern and is uppermost in my mind. I am aware that the Sungai Dua Church still has many weaknesses and faults. The church as a body is still learning along the way... amending our shortcomings in our obedience to the Lord... to love the Lord and His truth as He shows it to us, and also love His saints. Charging a sick sheep with faults and blameworthy would do no good to restore the sheep to health.

I am very saddened to hear that you have distanced yourself from many Christian friends that the Lord has brought to come your way. I am not sure what causes you to do contrary to God's kind providences. The Lord brought them to come your way IN ORDER THAT you may minister His word to them - to your own edification, and their instruction.

Maybe you have become withdrawn and inward-looking because of spiritual dryness. If they have distanced themselves from you because of the gospel truth you minister to them, then you should not be surprised at all. All these years I have been working, though feebly, to reach out to those Christian friends whom the Lord is pleased to bring to cross my life. To my sadness, often these Christian friends would reject me not because I am unfriendly, but simply because they HATE the simple truth of the gospel of free grace in salvation I faithfully present to them. Instead of considering the truth of God's word, deceitful hearts are quick to make smoke-screen to excuse the spiritual problem in their hearts.  I am not the best communicator of God's truth... and that's a fault I am very conscious of. Yes, salvation by grace properly understood has humbled me to the dust to love the Lord above all, to hold to the truth of our salvation, and to be charitable to all God's saints.  Distancing ourselves from other Christian friends is definitely contrary to the humility that the truth of our salvation should instil in us.

However, some 'Christian' friends are just not worth keeping for the simple reason - "Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners." And also, "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple." How easy it is to be attracted to those who have good words and fair speeches.

The RBs and many 'fine' Christians avoid me as though I am a contagious plague. I am the first to confess my many faults... and though these saints and sincere Christian friends wish to excuse and justify themselves all they want... the simple truth is, they are fearful to come to terms with the truth of the gospel, and the errors of their way. I desire their fellowship and friendship... I would never turn away Christian friends whom the Lord is pleased to bring to cross my path. I would make a great effort to befriend them and minister the truth to them. I have not, and would not push anyone to change... that's the Spirit's prerogative. But I would with love and plainness show them the truth, and point out their errors. If the Lord is pleased to knit together their heart with mine for the truth sake, bless the Lord. If our Christian friends are offended by the truth of God I share with them, then may the Lord help me to remain faithful to Him, though I lose the best of friends because of God's truth. If we lose friends because of our own foolishness, then may the Lord have mercy upon us. I would choose the approval of the Lord even if that means losing the best and greatest friends in this life.

Kay El our younger brother should be commended for his godly desire to gather his Christian friends to study the Bible. You may be aware of various weaknesses he has in presenting the truth that he himself may not be aware of. He may not be able to present the truth in the most winsome manner. I myself am very lacking in that area still. And you as an older brother... in Christ, would be best, in the given situation, to exhort him and encourage him in what he is doing, and to help him to recognize, and to overcome those weaknesses in presenting the truth to his Christian friends. You are your brother's keeper, just as he, though a younger brother, is your keeper. Be a Barnabas to him, give him all the encouragement and support you can. Guide him, assist him if you wish him good.

I would speak to him to find out what he thinks of the Bible study. If he finds that it is a joyless task to lead the Bible study, then it is best to stop further meetings. It is certainly no light responsibility that any saint can shoulder. I just thought, initially, that BOTH of you working together, would be able to hold meetings to share the truth of free grace with all whom the Lord would bring across your path. You were such an encouragement to us while with us in Penang, and I believed that others would be similarly edified if you both would study the Scriptures with others. The Lord knows our ability, and if holding Bible study is something too heavy a responsibility to shoulder, then it needs to be laid aside.

I am sure the people who attend whatever ministries they have chosen to sit under do sincerely believe that they benefit from those who minister to them. Even those in the wildest charismatic ministry also most sincerely believe that they are 'edified.' In any case, no one has disputed or denied whether some sincere folks have benefited from such ministries. I would rejoice with Apostle Paul whenever and wherever the truth of God is preached - "What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice." But we also take heed of the command, "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them."  However good the 'reformed' folks do sound or appear, the fact is, when the gospel of pure grace is preached, they would reject it as heresy. At least that's my experience for the last several years. See how vehemently the RBs reject the truth also.

I don't have the slightest doubt that those spoken of in 2 Tim 4:3-4 do believe very firmly that they benefit from the ministries of the men and women they heap upon themselves. They most certainly benefit abundantly from what they seek after, otherwise, they would not be found there.

I am glad that you are NOT thinking of quitting. There are enough foolish men and women, whose first thought is always DIVORCE whenever difficulties arise in their marriage. Covenant consciousness forbids such thought. Divorce solves nothing of the evils that mess up the marriage. It is foolishly running away from the evils that plague the marriage. Even so, with quitting from the church. Quitting should be the furthest from the thought of a church member. Quitting is running away from the evils that have brought about spiritual declension. Imagine a wounded hand thinking of quitting from the rest of the body! Humbly seeking the remedy and restoration should be uppermost in our thoughts. A member may quit from a church, but how is he going to quit from the Lord? How is he going to quit from the spiritual problems that are messing up his life? How is he going to tell his Lord and Saviour? Dealing with the evils and making amend and repentant from our negligence to nurse back the marriage to health is what is needed, is what the Lord requires of the man and woman. Even so with each church member.

Brother, please do remember that walking disorderly is far more injurious unto our Lord and Saviour than anyone else. Our Lord's displeasure with the disorderly walking of His children should be our chief concern. Grieving His Spirit who dwells within us ought to wake us up from our sleep and sloth. That's where our personal concern should be. It is Christ who bought us, redeemed us and made us children of the living God, and called us to be His disciples - to walk with Him. Walking orderly as He has commanded us is a very reasonable service, for our own spiritual well-being, to His honour, and the encouragement and edification of fellow pilgrims in Sungai Dua Church, and a witness in the place the Lord has put you.  Our Lord has given you brethren who care and do desire that you may have the joy of salvation, and walking with reverent fear before our gracious and merciful Lord. That's my chief concern for you as your unworthy pastor.

Just think of the harm that spiritual declension would bring upon yourself... your brother... your fiancee... the brethren of Sungai Dua. Above all, the reproach it brings to the Lord who bought us. Think soberly about this matter. Make amend and be spiritually minded, and you could bring so much spiritual good to all around you... especially our... younger brother Kay El. It is grievous to stumble him. Set a good example for him, as you had before. It would be grievous too if you are not in a position to give strong spiritual leadership to your future wife. Too much is at stake, dear brother. 

May our gracious Father stir up your heart and mind to seek first His kingdom and righteousness. He desires us to be partakers of His holiness in our life here. Do remember that our Father chastises all His children whom He loves. And also the warning of our Lord to us His disciples, "For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath." Mt 13:12.

If this mail seems long, you know the reason... I have not spoken to you in person for a long time... I am making up for lost opportunities. I love you in the Lord. You are a dear brother who has been a tower of strength to me in your better days.

To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

your brother and servant in Christ,

Pastor Lau.

========

Jan 8, 2008, 12:34 PM

Dear Brother,

Ps 80:1  Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, thou that leadest Joseph like a flock; thou that dwellest between the cherubims, shine forth.
Ps 80:3 Turn us again, O God, and cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.
Ps 80:7 Turn us again, O God of hosts, and cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.
Ps 80:19 Turn us again, O LORD God of hosts, cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.

May the LORD God of hosts, our Shepherd, make your heart tender to cry out to Him like the psalmist did, to have mercy and to turn you from backsliding, and to save you from His fatherly scourging and chastisement, and from death. 

Hosea 11:7 And my people are bent to backsliding from me: though they called them to the most High, none at all would exalt him.

Hosea 14:4 I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him.

Brother Ehsan, out of the tenderness of his heart and his affection for you as a dear brother in Christ, has written to me the post below to share about his own experience of God's abounding goodness and mercy in restoring them after a droughty season in the wilderness. He desires to encourage you. The Lord has wonderfully restored them. Instead of conveying his thoughts, I felt it best for you to read his thoughts in his own words. They are filled with love and spiritual concern for you.

May our Lord grant you a tender and teachable spirit to receive his exhortation and admonition. A brother who has a hearty concern for our soul is a RARE, and priceless jewel. "Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins," Jas 5:20. Such a brother ought to be loved and cherished. I do thank our Lord for this dear brother, and the tenderness of his heart and concern for us. I would that all the brethren among the RBs were like him.

May our Lord heal your backsliding, and restore to you the joy of your salvation, is my earnest prayer before our Lord.  Brother Ehsan's mail follows after my signature.

The other saints of Sungai Dua Church love you.

your brother and servant in Christ,
Pastor Lau

An inquiry of "salvation by grace alone."

Enjoy this delicious birthday dish
celebrating the birth.

 

May 5, 2016

An inquiry towards understanding "salvation by grace alone."

Bell asked:
Can a man actually be saved without hearing the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ?

Sing
That's a good question. “Can a man actually be saved” IN WHAT SENSE “without hearing the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ?”

Tell me, what is your question inquiring about, then I may be able to attempt an answer?

The preaching and hearing of the gospel is very necessary, but only necessary for the specific purpose for which it was divinely ordained. We need to get that right.

Bell
Thanks for responding. In the sense of knowing and understanding how we obtain the gift of eternal life. Is it possible for someone to die and end up in heaven without actually knowing how it happened?

Sing
"In the sense of knowing and understanding how we obtain the gift of eternal life."
===========
Eternal life/salvation is bestowed, a completed act, freely by the sovereign grace of God. A man DOES NOTHING to obtain it. Eternal life/salvation is bestowed to a man when he is INCAPABLE of knowing and understanding the spiritual truth of the gospel, being dead in trespasses and sins. [The sad truth is even more disheartening: a man by nature is in enmity and hostility against God. Incapability is bad enough! To be in enmity against God is far worse.]

The gospel is absolutely necessary to inform and enlighten him (one already freely bestowed with eternal salvation) on how the eternal salvation has been freely bestowed on him by God's free and sovereign grace.

A man does not need to know or understand about his conception and birth in order to obtain the life he has. His conception and birth are PRIOR and makes possible [sic] his knowing and understanding of the life he has, of which he did ABSOLUTELY nothing to obtain. The biological gospel is very useful for him to understand his life, who his parents are, and how to live that life wisely.

Does it help?

Bell
Perfect. Yes, it confirms my thoughts on salvation. So, it's true that a man could be saved for years, like Abram, before he came to the knowledge, or understanding of it?

Sing
Yes. Like a whole lot of people who never had the opportunity to know the deep mysteries of their conception and birth before they left this world. Some have no idea who their parents are. That ignorance doesn’t make them any less human than the most loved and well-brought-up children.

Their ignorance does not make them any less human than those who may be greatly enlightened on the matter. But ignorance is no bliss. It leaves men in grievous lies, errors and superstitions. And instead of living as a man made in the image of God, he may live his life as a beast, thinking he is a beast!

Bell
Amen, Thank you for your time and effort. May God bless

==============================

Now enjoy this delicious birthday dish celebrating the birth. 

p/s The picture above is a traditional birthday dish for the "Foochow" - a bowl of red rice wine long life noodles with two goose eggs and a pair of rooster drumsticks! 🙂

Is this the norm?

Is this the norm - bright and sunny for each one?

Jul 20, 2007, 7:03 AM

Dear Pastor,
Cornelius, the Ethiopian eunuch, and Lydia are very good examples recorded for our souls. Regenerate and living a godly life prior to the response to the gospel call.

Questions:
a. Is it the norm for thousands of years over the period of human history for regenerated people not to identify with the church or simply come out in the open to declare the glory of God. Understandable in the remote areas where those early times where the gospel could not be reached.
However, with the advances in communications, the gospel could not be reached to them.

b. If in the present era, regenerated people with the foreknowledge of God, do these people have no opportunity to join a church? Then the next question is "How would the people of God praise HIM day and night?" The gathered church may be lacking in numbers to corporate prayers and worship. Then if the regenerated people are not called out to faith between birth and death, then how would the ordinance of baptism be meaningful to the godly and ungodly people as a reminder of the death and the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ?

By now you may have realised we asked amiss and stupid questions. What bothers me especially "why should God allow His regenerated elect with full mental faculty to miss the opportunity for the fuller well-being of one's life while on earth. Declaring faith in the open would be like Adam & Eve in fellowship before their fall. Fellowship in the church is a type for the thing to come in heaven.

Pastor, I am asking the ridiculous and putting forth questions with obvious answers. As you mentioned often, what is not said carries the true intentions.

Best regards
Ehsan

=============
sing <singpenang@gmail.com>
Jul 20, 2007, 4:59 PM

Dear Ehsan,

It is good to hear from you. Five or six years ago, I was also asking the same questions as you do... only I asked a whole lot more... So, keep asking, and you will help me to keep thinking and learning.

Here is one I just asked two days ago:

Dear Brethren,
Please help me with a question.
The Scriptures declares, "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of EVERY kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation..."(Revelation of John 5:9).

Does this statement help to answer the questions:
- Were there God's elect that perished in the great flood?'
- Were there 'kindred, and people, and nation' before the confusion of tongue at Babel?
- The period between Adam and the great flood was 1656 years (Antsey) - did 'kindred, and people, and nation' develop within this period?

Any thoughts would be most welcome.

sing
======

 Concerning your good questions:

Please note that the question, 'Is this the norm' necessarily implies the corollary idea of ' that is an exception.' I have forwarded you a post on this.

Below I will answer within your post. A bit long... but please read it patiently. May our Lord bless you richly. If anything you don't understand, feel free to ask. Anything you don't agree with, show me I am wrong. I am teachable and am still learning.

Cornelius, the Ethiopian eunuch, and Lydia are very good examples recorded for our souls. Regenerate and living a godly life prior to the response to the gospel call. Questions:

## Yes, God regenerates His elect WITHOUT the aid or cooperation of man. This is a given. I fathered ALL my children without their aid or that of the midwives!!! But many people are involved in giving a hand for their nurturing and well being and usefulness.

Please note that we must not commit the FATAL ERROR here, i.e. to construe from this fact that IF regeneration and living a godly life prior to the response to the gospel call THEN the gospel ministry is not necessary to God's children. Please do remember that though Cornelius - prior to hearing the gospel - POSSESSES eternal life and DOES fear God and work righteousness (if by this you mean 'he is living a godly life' - then, yes, he is), yet there is still so much deficiency in his discipleship as a child of God. He is ignorant of the truth of his salvation by God's free grace, His Father, His Saviour; he is still plagued with much superstition, he is still burdened with many cares and worries of life, etc, etc. He is indeed a child of God, but ONLY a babe... the gospel ministry is most essential for the nurture and growth of the babe. "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect [complete, mature], throughly furnished unto all good works." (II Timothy 3:16- 17). Every man of God began his spiritual life as a babe. Without the ministry of the gospel, a child of God remains spiritual babe through much of his life on earth... and dies a spiritual babe. Whether a child of God died a spiritual babe or a spiritual giant... they are both EQUALLY justified, regenerated, and adopted and indwelt by the Holy Spirit of God, and shall be equally glorified - all based upon the works and merits of Christ. This is the eternal aspect of salvation. There is the temporal or timely aspect here and now in this life. That's where the gospel ministry plays a most vital role.

This work of making disciples of God's children - nurturing and instructing them all that Christ has commanded - has been committed to the church. Making disciples of God's children through the gospel ministry is 1000 worlds different from making God's children through the gospel ministry. The standard reformed folks have confused and confounded the two... thus ending up with all the inconsistency and contradiction, and repudiating salvation by free grace alone by direct implication.

a. Is it the norm for thousands of years over the period of human history for regenerated people not to identify with the church or simply come out in the open to declare the glory of God. Understandable in the remote areas where those early times where the gospel could not be reached.
However, with the advances in communications, the gospel could not be reached to them.

## I am trying hard to understand your question - if you are asking a question at all. May be you are making a statement. Do you intend to write, 'IT IS the norm...' (a statement) or 'IS IT the norm...'? I am not sure... sorry, I can't read your mind.

However, please let me say this. It is obvious that if the gospel had not been brought to them... there would be no church there... and without the NT church there, there would be no identifying with the church. Wherever they are, because they are regenerated children of God, their lives would be comparatively quite different from those around them, like that of Cornelius, Lydia and the Ethiopian eunuch in the NT... you can easily quote many of them in the OT.

During the OT, BEFORE the establishment of the distinct group of people who eventually became the covenant nation of Israel, all God's children were scattered in EVERY kindred, and tongue, and people, and nations were WITHOUT any external INSTITUTION to identify themselves with. During the OT, AFTER the calling of Abraham, a specific group of God's people begin to become externally identifiable. These became a covenant nation of God's people... there was then an external institution with which God's children can identify themselves as God's children. Throughout the OT, we read of some Gentiles (God's regenerated children) who came to know and identify themselves with this external institution (Israel). But still, by and large, God's children in most parts of the world then knew nothing about this external institution of God's people.

Please also remember that the people belonging to the special genealogical line that is carefully traced from Adam to Christ were NOT the only elect of God. So often people make the serious mistake of thinking that those people associated with that Christological genealogical line are the ONLY children of God, and there were none outside of it. There were, and are God's elect found in EVERY kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.

Let me be realistic, and say that the advancement in communication does not help much in the matter for several very basic reasons. It has helped the situation SLIGHTLY only. Can you think of some?

b. If in the present era, regenerated people with the foreknowledge of God, do these people have no opportunity to join a church? Then the next question is "How would the people of God praise HIM day and night?" The gathered church may be lacking in numbers to corporate prayers and worship. 

## Good questions... I had asked them myself... several years ago. All divine truth is consistent and harmonious.

By 'in this present era,' I supposed you mean the gospel age in the general sense, and the 21st century in particular, where advanced communication tools are available. I have suggested that the advancement in communication does not ensure, and remotely means that in this present era, every regenerated elect will be reached with the gospel. I leave it to you to think why.

Do you know that Cornelius, before the gospel message was brought to him, prayed to God ALWAYS? "There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, a devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God always." Acts 10:1-2. One may object, 'O he learned to do so from the Jews.' Fair enough. Who taught Abraham to do the same? And who taught Enoch, and Noah, and Melchizedek? There were certainly no Jews then! And who taught those in every nation mentioned by apostle Peter in Acts 10:34-35, "Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him." Remember, Apostle Peter, under divine inspiration was MAKING A MOMENTOUS STATEMENT OF FACT. He did not say, that in every nation whosoever will fear God and will work righteousness, will be accepted with God, i.e. apostle Peter did NOT make a STATEMENT OF CONDITIONAL OFFER.

These people praise God day and night PRIOR to, and therefore WITHOUT, the benefits of the gospel ministry by their reverent fear of God and do works of righteousness. That's the way the most enlightened saints praise God day and night TOO. The great difference lies in the QUALITY of their respective praises. A child may know God as his Father (see Romans 8:14-15), and yet know next to nothing about him, and praise him and love him in a vague uninformed manner; and another child of the same Father, because of the benefits of a FAITHFUL and BIBLICAL (much is not) gospel ministry may know so much more about his Father, and much more... and praise Him and love Him in a much-informed manner. See the point?

Then if the regenerated people are not called out to faith between birth and death, then how would the ordinance of baptism be meaningful to the godly and ungodly people as a reminder of the death and the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ? 

## If the regenerated people [i.e. already given eternal salvation by God's free grace] are not called out by the ministry of the gospel to faith, then they are deprived of all the blessings - including the instruction concerning how, when and why of their eternal salvation in Jesus Christ, and the ordinance of baptism as a visible and vivid picture of those things -  that the gospel ministry is ORDAINED by God to bring them.

That is why the ministry of the gospel is VERY IMPORTANT... but ONLY VERY IMPORTANT for the purpose it was ordained for by God. It is VERY IMPORTANT, not to bring eternal salvation to God's elect, but it is the very important means to bring temporal salvation in this life here and now.

A child of God who is deprived of the gospel ministry and all the temporal blessings that come with it is like a child who is deprived of the blessings of a loving home and all that comes with it. But whatever deprivation a child of God might suffer, they are not one iota less than a child of God. This statement DOES NOT lessen the urgency of seeking out God's children with the gospel ministry.

The 'standard reformed' folks insist that the gospel ministry is VERY IMPORTANT  because it is the means appointed by God to give eternal salvation to the elect. This is erroneous.

God's children, in every generation, in every place, whether they have the benefits of the ordinance of baptism that comes along with the gospel ministry, unmistakably BEAR WITNESS to the truth that they have been raised to newness of life... their reverent fear of God and their works of righteousness; these separate them from all those around them who are still dead in trespasses and sin. The gospel ministry alone will give them light and understanding of what has happened.

Let me illustrate the truth. There was a time in high school when we began to learn about the reproductive system in our science classes - about the wriggly sperms and the eggs, and fertilization, etc.  Before that you and I know next to nothing about our origin, where we come from, etc. Then we were instructed those wonderful truths! Imagine our older siblings who never went to school... and remained ignorant of those wonderful truths about their origin, the true identity of their parents, etc.; their ignorance does not make them any less children or any less human. See the point? Imagine one of the siblings died early... deprived of the benefits of medical advances, and knew very little of his parents... these are all very great losses but all these do not make him any less child or any less human than the other siblings.

OK, this leads naturally to the next BIG question... and I like this one. I have asked it myself too. So, men made wise by God think alike, and fool never differs!

By now you may have realised we asked amiss and stupid questions. What bothers me especially "why should God allow His regenerated elect with full mental faculty to miss the opportunity for the fuller well-being of one's life while on earth. Declaring faith in the open would be like Adam & Eve in fellowship before their fall. Fellowship in the church is a type for the thing to come in heaven. 

## I don't see nor realize any asking amiss or stew-pig questions. I think they are all legitimate, but whether they are ridiculous and have obvious answers, I can't say. I would be grateful if you can explain.

I am glad that you are especially bothered by this particular issue! You should be bothered by anything that is not consistent with the revealed word of God, and seek consistency by seeking to rightly divide the word of truth - "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." (II Timothy 2:15)

I want to suggest that behind your good question "Why should God allow His regenerated elect with full mental faculty to miss the opportunity for the fuller well-being of one's life while on earth" there lurks a presupposition or preconceived notion, even though such notion is unbiblical, and contrary to all observable facts in life.

I surmise that the preconceived notion is this: It is God's will that ALL His children (i.e. the regenerated elect) with full mental capacity will hear the gospel preached and enjoy the opportunity for the fuller well-being of their life while on earth... i.e. and be gathered into the NT church with all the blessings that come with it.

How wonderful if this had been the case... I would to God that this is the case indeed. But it is most certainly not - not only contrary to the Scriptures but also contrary to observable facts.

This notion leads to some strange ideas:
First, it assumes that there is no elect of God in all those places and all those people groups (i.e. ethnic nations) where the gospel has never reached. It's a presumptuous notion at best.

Second, it assumes that none of the regenerate (mentally capable) elect is MISSED by the ministry of the gospel in any place in any generation; i.e. the gospel ministry has reached every regenerate (mentally capable, understood... the gospel ministry is intended for such ONLY to begin with) in every place in every generation. Worse than presumptuous to claim so.

Third, this notion is a twin of the related error... gospel regeneration. They believe 'no gospel, no regeneration, no eternal life and no eternal salvation,' period. This is plain ignorance and confusion. Scriptures plainly declare, 'faith comes by hearing,' and not 'life comes by hearing'. It is no gospel, no faith and no conversion.

The triune God has most assuredly declared that He will sovereignly and freely do certain things for ALL His elect people... Read this very popular by most misunderstood passage again, "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." Romans 8:29-30.

This passage speaks of ALL the elect... ALL of them who are called according to God's eternal purpose, God will sovereignly and freely do for these SAME people. So please NOTE very carefully what is specifically stated that God will do for EVERY SINGLE ONE and ALL of His elect. Please note most carefully also what is NOT stated at all.

The things that God will sovereignly and freely do for ALL those who are called according to His eternal purpose are THESE: foreknowledge, predestination, call, justification, and glorification. Here is a most wonderful and perfect and complete 5-links chain.

Please note carefully that these five are SO-LINKED in such a manner that they do not allow anything to come in between them. What God has joined together let not man put asunder by adding useless and odious links of their own invention to the perfect and complete chain. Man's activity in any form or degree is ENTIRELY and ABSOLUTELY excluded.

Foreknowledge and predestination took place before the foundation of the world. The call took place in time... at God's own appointed and accepted time... "Those whom God hath predestined unto life, He is pleased in His appointed and accepted time, effectually to call,(1) by His Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ..." 1689.10.1. Justification mentioned here also takes place in time, in conjunction with the effectual call to grace and salvation. "Those whom God effectually calleth, He also freely justifieth..." 1689.11.1

Note most carefully that the effectual call to grace and salvation, has to be the effectual call and NOT the gospel call, because it is obvious beyond a shadow of doubt that there are elect that are not called by the gospel, but ABSOLUTELY everyone and all elect are effectually called to grace and salvation. Confused 'standard reformed' folks insist that this is a gospel call. These obtuse and stubborn folks refused to accept plain and obvious truth! To make the call here as gospel call destroys the chain... and excludes many elect from glorification.

Note most carefully too that the justification spoken about is a justification that must be true to EVERY SINGLE ONE and ALL of the elect of God. And this justification simply and obviously CANNOT be the justification by faith through the hearing of the gospel. This is the justification by God's free grace that is true of EVERY SINGLE ONE and ALL of the elect of God. This happens when He declares an elect under the condemnation of death to be righteous by forgiving all his sins and imputing to him the righteousness of Christ. Confused 'standard reformed' folks insist that this is justification by faith. These obtuse and stubborn folks refused to accept plain and obvious truth! To make the justification here as evidential and experiential justification by faith, they destroy the chain... and shall exclude many elect from glorification.

 From this passage, you see the plain declaration of what God has willed, decreed and ordained what He shall perform for EVERY SINGLE ONE and ALL of His elect. We must be careful not to break that unbreakable chain and add more useless and pathetic links of our own imagination... like the links of the gospel call, faith, faith, progressive sanctification, etc... and force the Scriptures to say what it does not say. Let God be true and every man a liar!!!

God has most certainly commanded the NT churches to labour seek the lost sheep and gather them into the churches. And we are to do that faithfully, and we gathered into the visible church God ALSO cares for the well-being and comfort of His children while they travel through this world to their eternal home - that work is delegated to the church... at the best of time, most often the church fails very miserably. But sovereign grace alone ensures all God's elect shall be glorified. Very humbling and comforting.

Many deluded and misguided men think God needs them to house His elect in heaven!!! What arrogance and presumption. "Him that glories let him glory in the Lord alone" - don't betray any indication that his eternal salvation is somehow remotely dependent upon something man does.

It would be wonderful if God had willed that each and every of His elect would enjoy the gospel blessings to the degree that apostle Paul had enjoyed... but God hasn't, otherwise, His will will surely come to pass.

I have rambled on, but hope it is not all wind,

sing