Sing, I thank you for your answer to my last question. Here are a couple more... again, I am being honest and wondering how someone who holds your theological position thinks about these things.
When Paul was on trial and said to Agrippa (Acts 26: 29) that he desired that he (Agrippa) and all that heard Paul speak that day were like him (Paul), that is, Christians, was Paul expressing a fleshly desire? Also, in Romans 9, when Paul expressed a desire for his brethren (in the flesh), fleshly Israel might be saved...even (were it possible...) the sacrifice of his own soul...for their salvation... was that fleshly and wrong?
Just wondering how you deal with these passages because they seem at first glance to express a desire in Paul's heart for the salvation of people who obviously were not elect people.
Thanks, your learning brother,
Michael Morrow
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Brother Morrow,
You ask really good questions. I am always
being taught by good questions - they drive me to study the Scriptures.
Let me make sure I get your
question correct.
" 27 King Agrippa, believest thou the
prophets? I know that thou believest.
28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou
persuadest me to be a Christian.
29 And Paul said, I would to God, that not
only thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether
such as I am, except these bonds.
Was Paul expressing a fleshly desire?
No, not at all, but a true and sincere HUMAN
desire, a genuine expression of the great commandment: "Thou shalt love
thy neighbour as thyself." A child of God desires good for his fellow men
generally... He desired for them the transformation that he had... once a
blasphemous enemy of the gospel, but now a follower of Jesus Christ.
The desire of God is compatible with His will
and decree. He WILL NOT desire nor command those for whom He did not give
Christ to be their Saviour to believe Christ Jesus to be their Saviour.
The desire of a child of God is compatible with God's will for him... "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself", and that includes desiring the good that one has for the neighbours.
MM @ "Also in Romans 9, when Paul expressed a desire for his brethren (in the flesh), fleshly Israel might be saved...even (were it possible...) the sacrifice of his own soul...for their salvation..was that fleshly and wrong? Just wondering how... you deal with these passages because they seem at first glance to express a desire in Paul's heart for the salvation of people who obviously were not elect people.
The narrative does express Paul's desire for
the salvation of the people under consideration... the great heaviness and
continual sorrow in his heart are sincere and genuine.
There are several considerations here:
- What is the salvation that the apostle desires for the people under consideration? Was it eternal salvation by God's free
grace, or a salvation that is dependent upon Paul's life and ministry?
- Would the apostle Paul be speaking of the salvation that is wholly and entirely by the
free grace of God that he has so copiously asserted and demonstrated throughout
the whole epistle?
I believe the apostle Paul desired the temporal
salvation that comes to the children of God among the Jews ONLY through
believing in the Lord Jesus Christ.
- Who exactly are the people under
consideration? Brethren in the flesh. Did he mean 'all the Jews
indiscriminately' or God's children who are among the Jews. I believe the
context demands the latter.
Apostle Paul was dealing with a very unique
problem among the children of God among the Jews - even though they WERE
children of God, but BECAUSE of their old covenant background, they found
letting go of the old covenant very hard, and enter the kingdom of heaven by
believing in Jesus Christ a great stumbling block.
When Apostle Paul stated, "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel" - it is obvious that his concern WAS NOT with the PHYSICAL Israel, but the spiritual Israel among the Jews. They needed to be brought to the faith. The natural Jews WILL NEVER be able to be brought to the Jews.
"8 So being affectionately desirous of
you, we were willing to have imparted unto you, not the gospel of God only, but
also our own souls, because ye were dear unto us."
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What do the words "imparted... also our
own souls...?"
John Gill said this:
- but also our own souls, or
"lives"; which is the highest expression and strongest proof of love
that can be given; and respect is still had to the similitude of the nursing
mother, who may be said to impart her blood, for such it her milk diversified,
for the nourishment of her children: and such was the great concern of the
apostles for the interest of Christ, the spread of the Gospel, and the good of
souls, that their lives were not dear unto them, so that these ends might he
answered: because ye were dear unto us; both because they were loved by God,
redeemed by Christ, regenerated by the Spirit of Christ, and had the image of
Christ stamped upon them; and also because that they were their spiritual
children; and as children are dear to their parents, so were these to them,
even to such a degree, as that, were there a necessity for it, they could
freely have laid down their lives for them
