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Faith alone justifies...- a case of willful ignorance and unbelief!
A man insisted: "Faith alone
justifies..."
I inquired: How can it be that faith alone justifies?????
Scriptures declare these:
Ro 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace
through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Ro 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by
his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Ga 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified
by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ,
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man
is justified, and not by faith only.
Where did the lie 'faith ALONE justifies'
come from??? Who started that lie???
He replies curtly:
"Because that is the way that God set up
his plan of salvation...."
I marvelled:
Let God be true, but every man a LIAR!!!
The Scriptures do not say faith alone
justifies. That is putting words in God's own mouth!
More likely, "that's the way misguided
men imagine how a guilty condemned man is justified before God!!!"
================
Comments
Hulan Bass
However, Faith is one of the ingredients, but
not alone.
Sing F Lau
Elder Hulan, "Faith is one of the
ingredients" how a guilty man is justified before God???
Hulan Bass
Sing Lau, you are hard to communicate with.
Faith comes at the POINT OF Regeneration, by the Voice of Jesus Christ, and
that INWARD Faith is the Very Holy Spirit in the Trinity. There is NO FAITH in
man before the New Birth.
Bernard Gowens
Bro. Sing, I am with you all the way. The
creature's faith is not at all involved in God's family being justified by
blood before God. I understood your truthful premise; whereas, it seems some
others did not. Justification before God is totally absent man's faith.
Man's faith is only involved when a child of
God hears and believes the Gospel preached and becomes justified by faith in
the court room of his own conscience. This is justification before
"self" and is within one's own personal conscience and that is
"after the act of regeneration has taken place."
Following a regenerate person's justification
by faith in the court of his/her own conscience, the regenerate person
"should" manifest that faith by his works in the public courtroom of
men. This then exposes to others that his/her faith is not dormant (dead) and
is thus an operative faith.
[Peter Missing deleted all his comments]
Sing F Lau
Peter Missing, you said, "The bible does
not concede that we are justified by any other factor.">
I have stated that the Scriptures declare otherwise, and you just go ahead and contradict the Bible so conveniently...
Ro 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace
through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:...
FREELY BY HIS GRACE... so debunks the lie of
by faith alone.
Ro 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by
his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
BY HIS BLOOD... so debunks the error of by
faith alone
Ga 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified
by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ,
BY THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST... so debunks
the fiction of by your faith alone.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man
is justified, and not by faith only.
NOT BY FAITH ONLY... so debunks your fable of by faith alone!
Sing F Lau
Sing, you are hard to communicate with.
Faith comes at the POINT OF Regeneration, by the Voice of Jesus Christ, and
that INWARD Faith is the Very Holy Spirit in the Trinity. There is NO FAITH in
man before the New Birth.
===========
Elder Hulan Bass,
1. I DON'T believe your PB notion that faith
comes at the POINT OF Regeneration.
Faith DOES NOT come at the point of
regeneration.
Eternal life comes at the point of
regeneration. The Spirit of God is given to dwell in the regenerated elect as
the Spirit of adoption. And the indwelling Spirit works all the saving graces
in a child of God... and faith is one of them. Faith is a saving grace worked
in the heart of a child of God by the indwelling Spirit. If you are saying the
same thing, then I agree with you.
2. I DON'T buy your PB notion that "that
INWARD Faith is the Very Holy Spirit in the Trinity."
If words have meaning, you have just done the
most silly thing (no disrespect intended, so don't need to take any) by equating:
that INWARD FAITH as the Very Holy Spirit in
the Trinity."
Sorry, Sir!!! Stop speaking in PB lingo, and you may be understood!!! You indeed communicate in a strange manner!!!
Bernard Gowens
Bro. Sing, it was said by another that
"... that INWARD Faith is the Very Holy Spirit in the Trinity." This
is not PB lingo, nor is it Bible truth. It is a gross misstatement. Consider
this syllogism:
Premise #1: Faith is an attribute, not a
Person.
Premise #2: The Holy Spirit is a Person in
the Trinity, not an attribute.
Therefore: Inward faith is NOT the very Holy
Spirit in the Trinity.
The brother that made this statement, made it
badly.
Sing F Lau
Brother Bernard, you are a brave and honest
man!
You restore my faith in the good PBs
somewhat.
I was becoming cynical that the PBs don't
express their disagreement with fellow PBs no matter what... because they are
extremely weary of division... as though disagreement must always lead to
division!!!
PJ Walters
Cannot a man also be justified by works?
Sing F Lau
Works justify a man evidentially/practically.
PJ Walters
Is there a Scripture which teaches
justification by works?
Bernard Gowens
James 2:14-26. See especially verses 24 thru
25. This is a person's justification by works before the court or men. One's
justification is manifested before the face of men, publicly, by man's works.
This shows the man has already been regenerated in heart and has heard the
Gospel and is justified (satisfied) in his heart and soul by faith in the
finished work of Christ Jesus on the cross.
PJ Walters
Thanks! I asked the question because I
already knew the answer.
Hulan Bass
Bros. Sing Lau & Bernard, we are not
communicating. I have never believed, preached nor taught that faith alone was
all inclusive. Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth, must be honored, so Faith is
just one of Nine descriptions of the Fruit (singular) of the Spirit. The Holy
Spirit is the 3rd Person in the Holy Trinity. The Gospel aspect of Faith, when
manifested and displayed, by the "alrady born-again" child of God,
fulfills James 2:24 - "Ye shee then how that by works a man is
Hulan Bass
justified, and not by faith only." More
if necessary. Kindly.
Hulan Bass
Bro. Sing, Bro. Bernard and I are 1st
Cousins. His Mother and my Dad were brother and sister. So he is free to
ridicule me all he wants to, but cannot get rid of me. grin.
Sing F Lau
Elder Hulan, you love justifying yourself no
matter what, even when the most stupid things are said!!! <LOL>
Hulan Bass
Bro. Sing Lau, I have made mis-statements
before, and my writing many times, is NOT what I really believe or intended to
convey. Do you ever have this problem? I have already agreed to my
mis-statements to Bro. Bernard, and will apologize to you also. Forgive and
pray for me.
Sing F Lau
Then why don't you just admit that it was a
simple mis-statement, but blah blah blah a whole lot of irrelevant things? I
have no problem with your mis-statements! But when an EXACT man like you make
mis-statement, and when pointed out, and no admission is forth coming , it is
very distasteful!!!
Hulan Bass
I admit and apologize for my mis-statements.
Kindly
Sing F Lau
Elder Hulan, your last comment SHOULD HAVE
BEEN the first comment after Elder Bernard's comment of correcting you! But you
blah blah blah.
Hulan Bass
I agree, you are always right, and so is
Bro.Bernard.
I have no defense.
Sing F Lau
"I agree, you are always right, and so
is Bro.Bernard."
=======
That's just being childish!
I did not claim that I'm always right... so
your agreement is quite misplaced and misguided!
I did point out your OBVIOUS misstatement. That's all you need to admit to. It is as simple as that! Why can't we keep things very simple!!!
Hulan Bass
Many times I write responding immediately
just like I'm doing right now, without checking, re-reading my comments in a
discussion scenario, and find later that I had not stated exactly what I meant,
so they become mis-statements not reflecting my which I do carefully re-read
and correct my WRITINGS, especially pertaining to theological exegesis. Okay?
Hulan Bass
See this mess right here? continued from
above "that I had not stated exactly what I meant and believe, so they
become
I did this on purpose to prove my point.
I will not be posting or discussing much anymore without carefully examining articulately before posting.
Hulan Bass
Response coming
Charles Page
In a way I prefer dialog in an arena where we
have to speak quickly and brief and our first impressions are given - this is
"barbershop discussions" or agora public discussions. No thought out
speech or prepared notes. If we are wrong make corrections and move on. And a
bit of passion helps to provide a catalyst for discussions.
Preachers in pulpits and lawyers in courtrooms make for poor effective communications. The preacher and the lawyer will always win and both will get substantially rewarded!
Hulan Bass
Bro. Charles, this only opens the door for
many, possibly too many hurt feelings and fellowship. Reasoning together is
taught in Isaiah 1:18; and Acts 24:15; 18:4, 19; 24:25. Yet reasoning in the
Barbershop is very casual, and nothing usually ever come to fruit-bearing. Old
Baptist have through the years, even between Regular Worship Services, done
what was known as Hardshelling out under the shade tree. Some good maybe came,
and some not so. I know. I’ve been a member since 1942. Even this message was
carefully thought-out and worded before publishing
Charles Page
Bro Bass, this why PB listen to preaching for
an hour sing half an hour then eat fried chicken for an hour and a half and
never once mention Christ name during fellowship! They really get along well!
This is why you don't grow as a congregation you just exist till everyone dies
off!
<LOL> too many hurt feelings! bless
your sensitive heart!
Sing F Lau
More excuses! We ALL make misstatements.
When pointed out... admit it and restate the misstatement if it is indeed one;
otherwise defend it.
Hulan Bass
Bro. Sing, I have found, that by careful and thoughtful articulation, that I can and do
write precisely and accurately, Rightly Dividing
the Word of Truth, and then go back and “proof-read” what I have written and correct my
words to be completely in line with what I believe,
before publishing. Many times I have mis-stated and mis-represented the exact details of what I
really intended.
By implementing this new procedure,
I eliminate most all these inaccurate
statements.
Yes, I admit and make no excuses for my past errors, but I am striving to eliminate all such in the future, so my intentions are communicating the exact truth.
Charles Page
I prefer telling people about my excitement
about Jesus in a barber shop or in McDonalds or under a shade tree than sitting
for an hour listening to a Primitive Baptist preacher give out his thoughtful
articulation. It is not that he lacks the correct doctrine but he has lost the
passion years ago!
When I hear a SBC preacher preach a less than
doctrinal exposition I will approach him, afterwards in an awkward manner and
ask him about what he said. The PB pastors are unapproachable in this. I've
tried to approach the Guesses and the Poe with questions and there is a
Hardshell that seems impenetrable.
The SBC preacher will squirm and get angry
but there is a penetrable shell that is there and it gives me hope that some
can be reached for Christ given time.
Hulan Bass
No Response at the moment
Charles Page
I take an opposing view, Respectfully,
Robert. I believe that the truth of God's saving power cannot be damaged by my
lack of grace and mercy. What can be damaged is the fickle feelings of men who
are fearful of an open dialog and not one hidden under a bushel.
I am sure I don't know enough PB ministers
and have not attended enough PB churches. So far the ones I have attended have
already evidence (in the Memphis area) the ample proof I need to know that what
is called "church" is more than a small group of people who love
a-Capella singing, listening to an hour sermon and fellowshipping around an
afternoon meal.
I am not certain that primitive baptist life
is reflected in the modern primitive Baptist life.
But before we go any further with this
discussion understand that any accusation against a brother has to be handled
privately, absolutely. Accusations have not been made public by me nor anyone I
know in these discussions. We are discussing theology and methodology and this
is for open debate. It is the realm of our learning.
Sing F Lau
"We are discussing theology and
methodology and this is for open debate. It is the realm of our learning."
=====
Amen. So let us stick to it, please.
Charles Page
My observation is that some I have observed
have lost their passion. Your arousal indicates you still have the necessary
passion! I'll stick to my accusation and certain that it's not a personal
matter that strikes at a moral issue!
I follow Paul in provoking to emulation the
ministers in order that I also might win some! I magnify my office.
I too will defend the Lord's church and 'our'
brethern. I will be obedient!
Aaron Milyard
I'll never understand how people can say the
things they do when the bible clearly states that ALL are dead in trespasses
and in sins.
I heard a saying once: The man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still.
Let us not look to our own wills, thoughts
and ideas for interpretation of Gods word. Ask God our Father to open our eyes
to the truth in His word. The word of God is so much more than "just
another book" to be read and "guessed" about what it means.
Sing F Lau
It takes a great measure of grace and
humility to admit one's error, and repent and believe the truth.
