Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

Dr. M Morrow
Sing,  I thank you for your answer to my last question. Here are a couple more... again, I am being honest and wondering how someone who holds your theological position thinks about these things. 

When Paul was on trial and said to Agrippa (Acts 26: 29) that he desired that he (Agrippa) and all that heard Paul speak that day were like him (Paul), that is, Christians, was Paul expressing a fleshly desire?  Also, in Romans 9, when Paul expressed a desire for his brethren (in the flesh), fleshly Israel might be saved...even (were it possible...) the sacrifice of his own soul...for their salvation... was that fleshly and wrong? 
Just wondering how you deal with these passages because they seem at first glance to express a desire in Paul's heart for the salvation of people who obviously were not elect people.

Thanks, your learning brother,
Michael Morrow

================

Brother Morrow,
You ask really good questions. I am always being taught by good questions - they drive me to study the Scriptures.

Let me make sure I get your question correct.
" 27 King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I know that thou believest.
28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.
29 And Paul said, I would to God, that not only thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except these bonds.

Was Paul expressing a fleshly desire?

No, not at all, but a true and sincere HUMAN desire, a genuine expression of the great commandment: "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." A child of God desires good for his fellow men generally... He desired for them the transformation that he had... once a blasphemous enemy of the gospel, but now a follower of Jesus Christ.

The desire of God is compatible with His will and decree. He WILL NOT desire nor command those for whom He did not give Christ to be their Saviour to believe Christ Jesus to be their Saviour.

The desire of a child of God is compatible with God's will for him... "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself", and that includes desiring the good that one has for the neighbours.

MM @ "Also in Romans 9, when Paul expressed a desire for his brethren (in the flesh), fleshly Israel might be saved...even (were it possible...) the sacrifice of his own soul...for their salvation..was that fleshly and wrong? Just wondering how... you deal with these passages because they seem at first glance to express a desire in Paul's heart for the salvation of people who obviously were not elect people.

The narrative does express Paul's desire for the salvation of the people under consideration... the great heaviness and continual sorrow in his heart are sincere and genuine.

There are several considerations here:
- What is the salvation that the apostle desires for the people under consideration? Was it eternal salvation by God's free grace, or a salvation that is dependent upon Paul's life and ministry?
- Would the apostle Paul be speaking of the salvation that is wholly and entirely by the free grace of God that he has so copiously asserted and demonstrated throughout the whole epistle?

I believe the apostle Paul desired the temporal salvation that comes to the children of God among the Jews ONLY through believing in the Lord Jesus Christ.

- Who exactly are the people under consideration? Brethren in the flesh. Did he mean 'all the Jews indiscriminately' or God's children who are among the Jews. I believe the context demands the latter.

Apostle Paul was dealing with a very unique problem among the children of God among the Jews - even though they WERE children of God, but BECAUSE of their old covenant background, they found letting go of the old covenant very hard, and enter the kingdom of heaven by believing in Jesus Christ a great stumbling block.

When Apostle Paul stated, "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel" - it is obvious that his concern WAS NOT with the PHYSICAL Israel, but the spiritual Israel among the Jews. They needed to be brought to the faith. The natural Jews WILL NEVER be able to be brought to the Jews.

"8 So being affectionately desirous of you, we were willing to have imparted unto you, not the gospel of God only, but also our own souls, because ye were dear unto us."
=======

What do the words "imparted... also our own souls...?"

John Gill said this:
- but also our own souls, or "lives"; which is the highest expression and strongest proof of love that can be given; and respect is still had to the similitude of the nursing mother, who may be said to impart her blood, for such it her milk diversified, for the nourishment of her children: and such was the great concern of the apostles for the interest of Christ, the spread of the Gospel, and the good of souls, that their lives were not dear unto them, so that these ends might he answered: because ye were dear unto us; both because they were loved by God, redeemed by Christ, regenerated by the Spirit of Christ, and had the image of Christ stamped upon them; and also because that they were their spiritual children; and as children are dear to their parents, so were these to them, even to such a degree, as that, were there a necessity for it, they could freely have laid down their lives for them

Don't confound grace with works

Sir, what about this passage
(the inquirer quoted from NIV)

Romans 10 KJT
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

========

My apologies. I'm catching up.

This passage is an excellent example of the distinction between eternal salvation and temporal salvation. When the students of God's word fail to acknowledge the biblical distinction, they are messed up; they confound grace and works, ALWAYS!

Let's ask a few questions. I teach learners by asking questions so that they will become self-learning.

1. Who is able to confess "Jesus is Lord"? Who is able to believe in his heart that God has raised Jesus from the dead?
- one still dead in their trespasses and sins, OR
- one whom God has already saved, i.e. effectually called out of his native state of condemnation, death, and alienation to grace and salvation in Christ Jesus?

2. If the latter, what will his believing the truths of his salvation in Jesus Christ save him FROM then?

3. What did God, in Jesus Christ, save him from?

4. Is the salvation freely bestowed to him by the grace of God in Jesus Christ the same as the salvation that will be obtained by his work of believing the truth of his salvation?
- Why?

5. "...that you believe and are justified..." (from NIV)
- How does your act of believing justify you?
- How did God justify you?

The right answers to these questions will put you a few light-years ahead of not a few reformed and deformed theologians. 

The Order of the Salvation by Grace

September 21, 2023

#orderofsalvation

Romans 8:30 KJT
Moreover, whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

#salvation_purposed
#salvation_accomplished
#salvation_applied
       (#salvation_experienced)
#salvation_consummated

God sovereignly purposed the eternal salvation of His elect in eternity;

Christ sovereignly accomplished the eternal salvation of all the elect on the cross.

The eternal salvation purposed and accomplished is sovereignly applied to each elect personally in the effectual calling of each elect out of his native state of sin and death to that state of grace and salvation in Jesus Christ.

To call an elect out of his native state of sin and death to that state of grace and salvation in Jesus Christ, these divine activities must take place, in this number and logical order:

- justification by God's grace to deal with the condemnation (justification reverses the condemnation due to sins;)

- regeneration by the Spirit of God to deal with the spiritual deadness due to sins (regeneration quickens the dead with eternal life;)

- adoption by the Father into the divine family to deal with the alienation due to sins. Adoption is always accompanied by the bestowal of the Spirit to dwell in the adopted.

These divine activities - three in number, and in that logical number - are necessary to bring an elect out of his native state of sin and death to that state of grace and salvation in Jesus Christ.

This divine call is always effectual; it always accomplishes its purpose and end - WITHOUT any aid on the part of man whatsoever.
The effect is immutable; once effectually called by God, one remains immutably called. Nothing further is needed on his part for his glorification. The effectually called are perfectly fit for eternal glory. Nothing further is required; they have been saved by grace alone. The divine effectual call deals with their *BEING* as the children of God.

1 John 3:1 KJV — "Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not."

God is not just interested in making His elect fit for heaven; He wants them to be informed and useful in their brief lives here on earth. To this end, the gospel ministry was ordained to call out His effectually called children and gather them into local churches under the Headship of Jesus Christ. This is DISCIPLESHIP; this requires the active part of the effectually called to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling; they are responsible for their spiritual *WELLBEING* as they journey through this world.

Meditate on these things.

They will get you beyond and above the reformed shibboleths.

[9/14, 9:42 PM] Sing Lau:

Concerning sanctification:

There are what the theologians termed "definitive sanctification" and "practical sanctification."

The effectual call definitively, once for all and immutably sets an elect apart from condemnation, death, and alienation to that of grace and eternal salvation in Jesus Christ.

The definitive sanctification is wholly by divine activities alone; it makes practical sanctification in His children possible. The gospel ministry is the divinely appointed means for the practical ongoing sanctification of His children here on earth.

[9/14, 9.48 PM] 
SDC inquirer - Leongsy
Positional sanctification and progressive sanctification

9/14, 10.02 PM]
Sing Lau:
Positional is a good term, it deals with the objective standing or status of a person.

Progressive is an unfortunate term: it implies linear progress, which is rarely true. So many of God's children make shipwrecks of their faith, with no progress whatsoever. Because of this "progressive" understanding, the reformed people will write off God's children as not being God's children because they failed to make the progress expected... that the fruitless hearers cannot possibly be the children of God...

[9/14, 10.04 PM]
SDC inquirer:
So u don't agree that those who are fruitless are not saved?

9/15, 1 9.22 PM]
Sing Lau:
Do remember a few things:
i. The parable describes something about the kingdom of God  - how the people in the kingdom of God hear the preached word. The parable is about the good and poor discipleship of God's children concerning the hearing of God's word.

- The 4 types of hearers are all God's children, those already saved by God.

ii. Common sense tells us that fruitfulness is expected of those who are spiritually alive, i.e. those whom God HAS SAVED by His grace in Jesus Christ.

- Only those lacking common sense expect fruitfulness from spiritually dead hearers.

- living plants that are fruitless is a sad reality. Only foolish people complain about the fruitlessness of a dead plant.

iii. Fruit-bearing requires great effort from God's children; they must work out their own salvation with fear and trembling.
- they have been saved with eternal salvation in Jesus Christ; His work has redeemed them from the eternal lake of fire.
- they must labour to save themselves from ignorance, ungodliness, fruitlessness, etc., relating to their spiritual WELLBEING.

Divine activities ALONE secured the eternal salvation for God's elect; God holds His children (the elect to whom eternal salvation has been applied)  responsible for using the means He has provided for their *temporal salvation*  - their spiritual well-being and usefulness while He lends them breath in their brief life on earth.

Ability and Responsibility

A man's responsibility is determined by the terms of the covenant to which he is a party.

I was asked:
Q1. Does a man's inability void his lawful duty?

A man's inability to perform a certain duty does not void his lawful duty. A man, though dead in trespasses and sins, is not exempted from his lawful duty and obligation toward God, his Creator. When God made man, God made him very good... he had the full ability and power of moral choice and free will to fulfil his lawful duty owed to God his Creator - to render obedience to God.

A man's inability to discharge his lawful duty towards his Creator is self-inflicted by his free will rebellion against his Creator.

All men, being sinners, are under a just obligation to repent towards God their Creator. NO single sinner has any right to remain in his sin. Every single sinner is under divine obligation to repent and turn from his sin.

A man's LAWFUL duties are defined by the terms of the covenant to which he is a party!

All of God's creatures are bound by the terms of the covenant of creation.

All of God's redeemed are bound by the terms of the covenant of redemption!

Q2. What determines a man's duty to believe in Christ?

A man's duties are defined by the terms of the covenant to which he is a party! His duty is not determined by his own inability or ability.

Only those embraced in the covenant of redemption are required by the terms of that covenant to believe Christ as their Redeemer.

All the children of God (elects who have been effectually called to grace and salvation in Christ Jesus) are duty-bound to repent and believe in the gospel of their salvation. They are God's redeemed, bound by the terms of the covenant of redemption. God's redeemed are duty-bound by the terms of the covenant of redemption to repent and believe in their Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ... because Christ is their Redeemer... it is their covenant duty to believe the truth of their salvation by Christ.

I do believe all God's children ALONE are under divine obligation to repent and believe in their Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. He is their Lord and Saviour. Upon the basis of His life and death, they have been justified, regenerated and adopted. They are children first by God's free grace; then they are called to believe the word of truth, the gospel of their salvation Eph 1:13.

Why would anyone imagine that others are under the divine obligation to believe Christ as Saviour when Christ is not even the Saviour of all men? Why are others duty-bound to believe Christ as their Saviour when Christ did not give Himself as the Saviour of all men? That would amount to God putting some men under divine obligation to believe a big fat lie!

It is contrary to God's character for God to put any man under divine obligation to believe a lie - i.e. to believe that Christ is their Saviour when He had assuredly decreed that Christ is not their Saviour. 

To deliver such an one unto Satan

To deliver such an one unto Satan...

[23/07/2022 14:12]
Sir, I have a couple of questions on 1 Corinthians 5.
v2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

Q1. What is meant by "he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you"?

v3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

Q2. What had Apostle Paul judged already?

v5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Q3. If this refers to apostolic authority only, no longer relevant to us, then what MUST the church do?

Appreciate your response.
--------

[23/07/2022 17:12] 

Q1. What is meant by "he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you."

Apostle Paul expresses his disgust and disappointment concerning the situation:
- they are puffed up about the hideous sin; they likely boast of their openness and progressiveness, e.g. “we are loving, we aren’t censorious, we respect people’s private life, blah, blah, blah.”
- they have not mourned for such grievous sin in their midst, and do the needful, "that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you."
- they have not exercised the authority, i.e. power to act; Christ has vested in the church the authority to deal with such matters, to remove an unrepentant member from the church body; they did not excommunicate such an unrepentant sinner. Excommunication is the responsibility and prerogative of the church, not any one individual, not even apostle Paul. So, even the Apostle Paul needed to instruct the church to do the excommunication.

Q2. What had Apostle Paul judged already?

“For I verily… have judged already… concerning him that hath so done this deed”
– Apostle Paul, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, has already exercised his apostolic authority on the matter; he has executed his judgment upon the man; this is a sharp slap in the face of the church for their inaction against, and tolerance of the hideous deed.

What is the judgment Apostle Paul has executed? What’s the basis of Paul apostolic authority? It is, “in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ” – verse 5.

1Co 5:4 “In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

Verse 4 has two distinct parts:
- “For I verily… have judged already… concerning him that hath so done this deed, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ…”
- “when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
- “In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ” is related to what the Apostle Paul has already done;
- “in the power of our Lord Jesus Christ” is related to what the church MUST do: administer excommunication, when they are gathered together.

Apostle Paul exercised his apostolic authority on the matter, and instructed the church to perform her duty: "he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you." No further need for prayers and seeking God’s will

Q3. If this refers to apostolic authority only, no longer relevant to us then what MUST the church do?

“No longer relevant” implies it was relevant before! It never was in the church’s power to execute such a judgment, i.e. “to deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh…”

It’s the standing duty of the church to execute the power of our Lord Jesus Christ vested in the church to remove such a one from the fellowship and communion of the church, excommunicate. “… but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.” Mt 18:17b

The privileges of Apostolic authority belong to the Apostles alone; the privileges of church power, vested by Christ alone in each local church, belong to the church alone; each church is held responsible by her Lord Jesus Christ to administer that vested power according to the mind of Christ. ( We have touched on this somewhat in our study on 1689.26 on “Concerning the Church.”

Thank you for these excellent questions.

Keep asking; it will help all of us to learn and know the Scriptures better.

Appearance versus Reality

 "Judge not according to the appearance,
but judge righteous judgment." John 7:24

 

Luke 23 KJT
8 And when Herod saw Jesus, he was exceeding glad: for he was desirous to see him of a long season, because he had heard many things of him; and he hoped to have seen some miracle done by him.
9 Then he questioned with him in many words; but he answered him nothing...
11 And Herod with his men of war set him at nought, and mocked him, and arrayed him in a gorgeous robe, and sent him again to Pilate.
12 And the same day Pilate and Herod were made friends together: for before they were at enmity between themselves.

One moment Herod was exceedingly glad to see Jesus; he even engaged Jesus in conversation. However, some time later he showed his true self.

What happened in between?
What explains the change?

He did these despicable things:
"questioned": eperōtaō: interrogated
"set at nought": exoutheneō: to make of no account, despise utterly, to treat as worthless.
"mock": empaizō: to play with, trifle with, make fun of...

 

Hate not thy brother - Leviticus 19:17

Hate not thy brother;

but love him - i.e. make an effort to convert him from the error of his way.

Lev 19 KJT
17 ¶Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

James 5 KJT
19 ¶Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

These Scriptures have been completely perverted by some: an attempt to correct an error is now seen as HATEFUL and UNLOVING.

Love me by converting me from the error of my way. To leave me in my error without making a sincere effort to convert me is HATEFUL... "thou shalt not hate thy brother..." by leaving him in the error of his way, that is to "suffer sin upon him."

In a bible study, I referred to Hebrews 2:14 KJT — "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil" - to make the point that the suffering of Jesus was as real as could be because He is the Word made flesh.

A student of the Hebrew language said that his Reverend instructor taught that the text reads as "blood and flesh" and not "flesh and blood" and that the blood and flesh refer to atonement by animal sacrifices in the OT and Jesus's incarnation respectively.

I said, "My KJT has the order of 'flesh and blood,' and the context speaks of the incarnation of the Word, John 1:1,14.

- It is lacking common sense, i.e. stupid, to say that "blood and flesh" refers to atonement by animal sacrifices in the OT and incarnation in the NT; this would necessarily make the children spoken of to be partakers of animal sacrifices and incarnation too.

The student went berserk because I corrected the bizarre idea of her revered instructor, a complete stranger to me; I haven't the slight idea who the instructor is.

She raved against me: "You do not love your brothers in Christ. So I am afraid that you are not an Elect. Because if you have loved your brothers in Christ, you would not have written to run them down with SO MUCH HATRED in your heart.

I replied: Thank you for your kind words...
May the Lord bless you in the days ahead. Amen.

 

The Seventy Weeks in Daniel's Prophecy

 

Some figures for us to wrap our minds on.

Daniel 9
24 “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

“Seventy weeks are determined" upon thy people and upon thy holy city for these specific events:
1. to finish the transgression, and
2. to make an end of sins, and
3. to make reconciliation for iniquity, and
4. to bring in everlasting righteousness, and
5. to seal up the vision and prophecy, and
6.. to anoint the most Holy.

NOTE carefully that the city's destruction is NOT within the seventy weeks determined upon city and people.

The command to restore and build Jerusalem was given by Cyrus the Persian in 456 B.C.

The 70 weeks is divided up into three parts: 7 weeks, 62 weeks, and 1 week.

The 7 weeks (49 years) of rebuilding Jerusalem by those who returned from exile are covered by Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Zechariah, Haggai, Malachi.

Then, it was followed by the 62 weeks (62x7=434years) of intertestamental silence and darkness. The appearance of John the Baptist broke the long dark silence; his appearance also signalled the imminent appearance of the promised Messiah, the Prince.

The 70th week commenced with the public appearance/ministry of the Messiah. In the midst of the week (30AD), the Messiah was cut off, having fulfilled all the six things stated in 9:24.

At the beginning of the 70th week, some spiritual-minded Jews, understood from Daniel's 70-week prophecy, were expecting the imminent appearance of the Messiah. See Luke 3:15.

456 BC (the years Cyrus issued the imperial edict) + 483 (69 x 7) = 27AD
The Messiah was sent into the world at His water baptism in 28AD (28 comes after 27).
Jesus's ministry lasted around 3.5 years; then He was cut off in the midst of the last week of 7 years.

 

it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance

Sir, how would you interpret this passage?
Hebrews 6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
------------

Here are some observations:
Hebrews was written to Hebrew believers in Jesus Christ who were under the temptation of reverting back to their old covenant religion, that is, of falling away from their faith in Jesus Christ. Apostle Paul wrote to exhort them to hold fast.

Hebrews 10:23 KJT
"Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised."

"For it is impossible... If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

The subjects of the passage are described as those
- that were enlightened
- that tasted of the heavenly gift
- that were partakers of the Holy Ghost
- that tasted the good word of God
- that tasted the powers of the world to come

1. Of whom are these statements describing?
- those still dead in trespasses and sins, or,
- those who are effectually called by God, AS WELL AS converted to Jesus Christ by the ministry of the word?
- another group?

2. "If they shall fall away..."
- those described in 1 above CAN fall away.
- fall away from what? (take careful note that falling away from their faith in Christ and falling away from the state of grace into which they have been effectually called are vastly different!)
- What does it mean to fall away?
- How does the passage describe the falling away?
("... they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh,
and put him to an open shame.)
- Do you see the heinousness of falling away?

3. Why is it impossible to renew them again to repentance IF they should fall away?
- What's the relationship between repentance and faith in Christ?
- How does this relationship explain the impossibility of renewing them, IF they fall away, unto repentance?

The above may help you to do your own interpretation.
After rightly dividing (interpretation) the word of truth,
make your own applications of the truths learned.

 

Q. 70. What is justification?

Q. 70. What is justification?
A. Justification is an act of God’s free grace unto sinners, in which he pardoneth all their sins, accepteth and accounteth their persons righteous in his sight; not for any thing wrought in them, or done by them, but only for the perfect obedience and full satisfaction of Christ, by God imputed to them, and received by faith alone.

Let me divide up the answer into smaller bits like this:

Justification is
a. (POSITIVELY, truth affirmed)
- an act of God’s free grace unto sinners,
- in which he pardoneth all their sins,
- accepteth and accounteth their persons righteous in his sight;

b. (NEGATIVELY, error repudiated)
- not for any thing wrought in them,
- or done by them,
(faith is saving grace wrought in them by the Spirit of adoption, Ga 5:22.)
(believing is a work done by them. John 6:29.)

c. (THE GROUND)
- but only for the perfect obedience and full satisfaction of Christ,
- by God imputed to them,
(the imputation of God's free grace is both logically and chronologically PRIOR to the reception of it by faith.)

d. (THE EVIDENCE)
- and received by faith alone.

(The justification by grace is received by faith alone, THAT IS, justification by the grace of God is logically and chronologically prior to the reception of it by faith in Jesus Christ.)

Consider the answer carefully.

Demonstrate how the answer plainly REPUDIATES  the popular fable of justification by faith alone.

Ask some questions, and/or draw out some statements from the answer.

Enjoy learning the gospel truths.

Martin Luther famously stated that the doctrine of justification is the "article upon which the church stands or falls" (in Latin, articulus stantis et cadentis ecclesiae). Many reformed people love quoting these words of Mr Luther.

On this idea of Luther, how many churches are standing?

Are you in one that stands?

Please take a look at following slowly and carefully

John Gill wrote a specific treatise titled "The Doctrine of Justification by the Righteousness of Christ, Stated and Maintained", which was published in 1730 - nearly 300 years ago

In that treatise, Dr Gill had to counter a popular fable already circulating in his days; he declared, "The reason why any are justified IS NOT because they have faith; but the reason why they have faith IS because they are justified."

The former is putting the cart before the horse; the latter horse before the cart.

Yes, just as the Scriptures repeatedly declare, "The just shall live by faith," i.e. they have faith because they have been freely justified by God.  Only the justified ones, freely by the grace of God, are capable of exercising faith in Jesus Christ.

John Gill was a prominent theologian and was highly respected by his contemporaries. Today, he is loathed by the Reformed people.

The opposite is ubiquitously popular today: "The unjustified is justified by faith alone."
- i.e. the unjustified is capable of exercising faith to believe to be justified. It is like saying, The dead are capable of breathing to be given life. See less

Sacramental Redemption?

Q. By what outward means are we given redemption?
A. Christ gives redemption by His word, the sacraments & prayer.
-------
The above is a catechism question and answer by a well-known NEW SCHOOL Reformed Baptist.

The QnA are likely a DOWNGRADED perversion of this QnA by an OLD SCHOOL Particular Baptist.

Q. 95. What are the outward and ordinary means whereby Christ communicates to us the benefits of redemption? 
A. The outward and ordinary means whereby Christ communicates to us the benefits of redemption are His ordinances, especially the word, Baptism, the Lord's Supper and Prayer; all which are made effectual to the elect for salvation. (Rom. 10:17; James 1-18; 1 Cor. 3:5; Acts 14:1; 2:41-42). 
(Baptist Catechism by Benjamin Keach, 1677)

What do you think of the RB's question and answer?

If you have understood the gospel of Christ, the errors will glare* at you; otherwise they are smooth words.
*glare - stare angrily or fiercely.

Archin asked:
Christ gives redemption, or God the Father gives redemption?
Redemption is paid with His righteous life and blood on the cross.
Not sacraments, not prayers.

sing
Isa 1:18a "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD..."

Let's consider the question first.
Q. By what outward means are we given redemption?

a. Some word meanings:
- "redemption" - deliverance, esp. from the just penalty of sin; finally from the eternal lake of fire. This redemption is by Christ's life and death alone: Heb 9:12 "Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us."
- "means" - something used to attain/achieve a result; in this case, the result is given redemption.

b. The question assumes/presupposes a few things:
- that redemption is given by using some outward means.
- that without redemption, a man is capable of using those means to be given redemption.
- that redemption is given CONDITIONED upon a man (WITHOUT redemption yet) using the outward means provided.

c. Some questions
Q. What is the spiritual state of a man who has not been given redemption by Christ?
Q. Is such a man capable of using the means provided in order to be given redemption?
Q. Does a man using the means provided to receive redemption involve some works on his part?

1Pe 1:13
Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

What's the difference between these two questions?
Are they asking the same thing?

Q. By what outward means are we given redemption?
Q. By what outward means are we to enjoy the promised blessings of redemption?

Sing
<Christ gives redemption or God the Father gives redemption?...>
Good question.
The answer provided did specifically state that it is Christ who gives redemption by the means stated.

Generally, the three Persons in the Triune God act in unison and harmony in the redemption of the elect.
- God the Father purposed the redemption,
- God the Son accomplished the redemption purposed by God the Father, and
- God the Spirit applies (simple present tense) the redemption to each elect (while dead in trespasses and sins); this work continues until the last elect has been effectually called to redemption.
The three Persons of the Godhead are intimately involved in giving/bestowing/applying the redemption to an elect in his native state of sins and condemnation in Adam.

The 1689.10.1 CoF put this succinctly.
"Those whom God hath predestined unto life, He is pleased in His appointed and accepted time, effectually to call, by His Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ..."

This is when and how redemption IS GIVEN or APPLIED to an elect:
- when: at God's appointed and accepted time...
- when: when an elect is in his native state, i.e. in sin, death, and condemnation in Adam

"... by His Word and Spirit" refer to the Second and Third Person's of the Triune God."

Many RBs ignorantly take "His Word" as referring to the Scriptures or the preached word. This is clearly without common sense, i.e. stupid. (You can think of some obvious reasons).
This fable is also repudiated by what is said in 1689.10.3.

May the Lord give us understanding.
Amen.

Sing
<Christ gives redemption or God the Father gives redemption?>
Yes, the redemption purposed by God the Father for His elect was accomplished/secured by God the Son through His sinless life of obedience (thus securing the righteousness needed) and His atoning death (thus bearing away the wages of sin) on the cross.

Asking "Christ gives redemption or God the father gives redemption?" is a little bit like asking, "Mother gives life or the father gives life?"

As I have tried to explain, both the mother and the father work in unity and harmony in giving the life.
In the covenant of redemption, the three Persons of the Triune God covenanted to work in perfect unity and harmony to execute everything needed for the eternal salvation of the elect, to bring them to glory.

Yes, in the redemption of God's elect, only divine activities are involved, excluding every outward means imaginable; otherwise salvation by grace is denied and repudiated.

Outward means require human involvement to use those means; i.e. they require human works.

Only those to whom the redemption has been freely bestowed by divine grace are capable of utilizing those outward means to work out their own salvation... for their temporal salvation.

Outward means belong to the sphere of temporal salvation.
ONLY THE LIVING, those whom God has freely bestowed redemption are capable of using the means provided. 

She is inquiring about a RBC

Be careful where you are going!

[13/09/2023, 12:21]
Leonie
Hi, is this Sg Dua Grace Church?

Sing:
Yes, Sungai Dua Church. How may I assist you?
Visit our blog here: https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2008/01/saved-by-grace-through-faith-whose.html

Leonie
Am I corresponding with Ps Lau Sing Foo himself (I can see the photo of you and your wife in your WA profile).

sing
Yes, you are.

Leonie
I am currently attending Xyz RBC evening service
A very trusted friend of mine gave me this link:
Pruning 7 Deformed Branches: 2005
https://pruning-deformed-branches.blogspot.com/

I just want to find out if I am attending a sound Reformed church

I do find XyzRBC's current pastor slightly "controlling" and am not really agreeable to some of their teaching

Sing
Do you mean to ask if XyzRBC is a sound Reformed church?

Leonie
Yes. Are all their teachings correct?

Sing
I don't know since I am NOT aware of all their teachings; moreover, I have had no interaction with them for more than two decades.

I do have serious disagreement with not a few important doctrines of salvation with the Reformed Baptists. Pruning 7 Deformed Branches chronicles the controversy with them. To this day, none have answered them.

I was a member of XyzRBC for a few years (91-93) before moving to Penang to found a new church. I have been here for 30 years.

Leonie
They appear to be a bit "works-based" to me. I believe salvation is for the Elect, and there is basically nothing much one can do in terms of regeneration, faith n repentance and perseverance. Eg: they have been evangelising the same families for years, and those ppl are still hanging photos of other gods in their homes. I believe if one is not elected, there is no point preaching the Gospel to them every single week in the hope that they will be saved through Gospel preaching

Sing
Thanks for your interesting observation.
Remember these basic fundamentals:
- God purposed eternal salvation for His elect in eternity;
- Christ accomplished the same for the same people on the cross; and
- The Holy Spirit applied the same salvation to each elect when they are in their native state of sin and death. 

Eternal salvation is purposed, accomplished and applied freely and sovereignly, without any works of man.

The gospel ministry is ordained to call out those to whom eternal salvation has been applied; the gospel ministry is intended for those to whom God has ALREADY freely applied eternal salvation; it is irrelevant to all others.

AFTER eternal salvation has been freely and sovereignly applied to an elect, he is capable of doing the things God commands him to do, for example, believing, repenting, obeying, etc., etc.

Except a man be born again, he CANNOT...
When a man is born again, he CAN; he is capable...

Leonie
So both of us have the same bone of contention about them. 
I am just a 5-year-old Christian. But I have been to many churches in the Klang Valley, hoping to settle in a sound church

Sing
May our gracious Lord lead you to His truth. Amen.

Take a look here: https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2023/08/the-just-shall-live-by-faith.html

Many articles on the same subject.

Leonie
The Pastor is retiring at the end of this year
They will have a new pastor

Sing
May the Lord bless him richly, and the man who continue the labour. Amen.

Leonie
I was in Xyz RBC for 2-3 months early this year before I start to realise that someone's preaching is a bit moralistic. As we all know John Owen's Mortification of Sins teaches us that only Christ can help one mortify our sins (moral sins included). So I left n joined St Andrews Presbyterian Church KL. Then recently I re-joined XyzRBC's evening service since I am free in the evening. But then again, the same pastor was emphasising Gospel preaching to the unsaved. So I again start to have some doubts. But the new pastor is teaching us 1689 LBCF every Wednesday night now, and I like the teaching. So I guess I have to be careful and not just swallow down everything without spitting out the bones

Leonie
I have been reading some Puritan books to double-check the new pastor's teaching on Regeneration, Faith, Repentance, Assurance of Salvation, Holiness, Sanctification, etc. So hopefully I am not too lost.

I know no church is perfect. I also hope that you won't mind if I occasionally check with you on some of the teachings in Klang Valley which I find "strange" 🤭

Sing
My blog interacts with many of the Reformed shibboleths that I consider not Scriptural.

Peruse the blog to find out: https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/

You are welcome to ask and raise questions - this will drive each student of God's word closer to the Scriptures.

Leonie
Thanks. But I noticed that your church also subscribed to the 1689 LBCF? Which is Reformed also 😅

[13/09/2023, 18:04]
Sing
Yes, there are old school Particular Baptists, and there are new school Reformed Baptists. The former framed the 1689; the latter bastardised the same Confession. A serious charge!!!

All documented in the blog. Peruse them yourself... Chapters on the Effectual Call and Justification.

Historically, the Reformed Baptists appeared on the scene in the 1960s. 

Blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.

[30/11/2025 13:55]
Sunny
Exodus 32
30 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.
31 And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.
32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin—; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.

Pastor Lau.
Please help me to understand the bold words blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. I have checked the BLB tools for cross-reference and referred to the Lamb's Book of Life

Questions:
1. Is the book the Lamb's book of life?
2. Moses, as prophet of Jehovah God, stated clearly in v 33, He will blot him out of the book.

Exo 32:33
And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

However, we learned in time past on 1 Cor 10: 1-6 referring to these generations of Jews nevertheless were God's elect but those above 20 years old were not permitted into the promised land. They were given eternal salvation but not temporal.

Question:
1. How can I reconcile Exo 32: 30 ff & 1 Cor 10: 1- 6? Blotting out the names in the Lamb's book of Life in Exodus 32 ff & 1 Cor 10

Thank you

[30/11/2025 14:24]
Sunny
Also, the preacher this morning preached on Romans 9: 18-24 on the subject of vessels of honour & vessels of dishonour, or wrath, pleading with the listeners to repent & plead for mercy to GOD that He would break down the vessels of wrath to rebuild into vessels of honor.

Q. 1) if some are already made into vessels of dishonor, will GOD change the status of wrath to vessels of honor?

[02/12/2025 00:09]
Sing in reply to Sister Sunny

Thank you for the questions.
Q1. Is the book the Lamb's book of life?

Let us answer this question by reminding ourselves some established truths concerning the Lamb’s Book of Life.

Q. Whose Book of Life is it?
A. It is the Lamb’s Book of Life, and it is the only entrance into heaven (Rev 21:27)

Q. What is in the Book of Life?
A. The personal names of each of God’s elect (Luke 10:20; Phil 4:3).

Q. When were tho names written in the Book of Life?
A.  The names were written there from the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4; Rev 13:8; 17:8).

Q. Who can open the Book of Life?
A. Revelation 5:2-5, only Christ, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, could do so.

Q. Can any names be blotted out?

a. Absolutely not!  Christ said He would lose none of those chosen by His Father (John 6:39; 17:2). None shall end up in the lake of fire. Rev 20:15. God’s eternal purpose of redemption is immutable

Q. What are the blessings of having names written in the Book of Life?
- Deliverance from sin and condemnation of the eternal lake of fire.  Rev 20:11-15).
- Eternal glory in the presence of God.

In light of the above, the book mentioned in Ex 32:32,33 can’t possibly be the same as the Book of Life.
- Names can be blotted out from the book mentioned in v32-33.
- Moses words “blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written” indicated that;
- the LORD’s word also confirmed that, “Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”

If the book mentioned is not the Book of Life, then what book is it?
I believe verse 34 gives us a clear indication.
“Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel, shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.”

Try connecting “Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book” with “nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.” When the LORD visits their sin upon them, the LORD will slay them in the wilderness, THUS excluding them from entering the Promised Land, THAT IS, blotting them out of the so-called Book of the Promised Land.

[02/12/2025 00:15]
Sing
Question: 1. How can I reconcile Exo 32: 30 ff & 1 Cor 10: 1- 6? Blotting out the names in the Lamb's book of Life in Exodus 32 ff & 1 Cor 10
======

Since Exodus 32:31-34 does not speak of the Lamb's Book of Life, no contradiction requires reconciliation.

Sing
Question 2. Moses, as the prophet of Jehovah GOD, stated clearly in v 33, He will blot him out of the book.

Exo 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
——————————

Moses did offer himself to be blotted out of the book the LORD has written in his wrestling with the LORD for the forgiveness of the people he was leading to the promised land.

"Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin—; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written."

But the LORD firmly rebutted him with, "Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book."

[02/12/2025 00:37]
Sing
"However, we learned in time past on 1 Cor 10: 1-6, referring to these generations of Jews, nevertheless, were God's elect, but those above 20 years old were not permitted into the promised land. They were given eternal salvation but not temporal.
=========

Exodus 32:31-34 is related to the sin of the golden calf by Aaron; it's not related to those above 20 years old who were not permitted to enter the promised land. The murmurings and unbelief concerning the good report by Joshua and Caleb concerning the good land excluded those 20 years old and above from entering the promised land.

Num 14:29
Your carcasses shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward, which have murmured against me,

In BOTH contexts, "whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book" was fulfilled; their carcasses fell in the wilderness; they didn't enjoy the temporal salvation of the promised land.

[02/12/2025 12:47] 
Sing
Question: 1. How can I reconcile on Exo 32: 30 ff & 1 Cor 10: 1-6. Blotting out the names in the Lamb's book of Life in Exodus 32 ff & 1 Cor 10
======

A few words on 1Cor 10:1-6.
1 ¶Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in
the wilderness.
6 ¶Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
--------

Apostle Paul was warning the Corinthians SAINTS against their sins with the parallel example of that generation of Jews who were delivered from Egypt.

When giving examples, make sure the principles involved are the same.

Note carefully Apostle Paul speaks of "all OUR father" when addressing the Gentiles Corinthian saints. Therefore, Apostle Paul is referring to God's children among the Jews only; not all ethnic Jews are God's children. Ethnic Jews are not in any way the father of the Gentile Corinthian saints in any sense; the believing Jews are our fathers in the spiritual sense only.

Note also the wonderful spiritual blessings experienced by "all our fathers" spoken of - "...spirit meat (food)... spiritual drink... spiritual Rock..."

Even so the Corinthian saints. They too may be OVERTHROWN if they behave like our fathers in the days of Moses.

Despite experiencing all those spiritual blessings, many of them " were OVERTHROWN in the wilderness."

6 ¶Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

I hope this helps.

I commend Sister Sunny for remembering 1Cor 10:1-6 in connection with Exo 32:31-34. ❤️

[02/12/2025 22:26]
Sing Lau in reply to Sister Sunny

<Also, the preacher this morning preached on Romans 9: 18-24 on the subject of vessels of honour & vessels of dishonour, or wrath, pleading with the listeners to repent & plead for mercy to GOD that He would break down the vessels of wrath to rebuild into vessels of honor.>

Apostle Paul's illustration of the potter serves one singular purpose - the absolute sovereignty of God in His providential dealing.

The examples given:
- God's sovereign choice of Isaac over Ishmael;
- God's sovereign choice of Jacob over Esau;
- God's sovereign choice of raising up Pharaoh to great honour; and in equal sovereignty, only to appoint him to great dishonour/ wrath for His own glory.

In Romans 9-11, Apostle Paul explains to the Gentile believers in Rome WHY many of God's children among the Jews were unbelieving.

Romans 10
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

V2- "a zeal OF God": the genitive indicates the source/origin of that zeal. Only God's children possess the zeal that is from God. Those Jews had a zeal OF God  BUT were unbelieving.

Why? Romans 12:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

The way the preacher uses the potter does not suit the purpose of the illustration by Apostle Paul - the sovereignty of the potter. that is,  potter is free, from the same lump of clay, to make an exquisite vessel to keep treasures as well as a urine pot. The potter is "sovereign" in what to make out of the same lump of clay.

Even so, God in His providential dealing with us.

Once the vessels are made and dried, they are baked in the kiln, causing the clay particles to bond together in a process called vitrification. That which is vitrified can't be used to remake anymore.

Breaking the vessels of dishonour to rebuild them into vessel of honour is fictional; it betrays ignorance of pottery making.

That vessels of dishonour can plead to be remade into vessels of honour is also fictional .. and repudiate grace.

Breaking pots in the Scriptures is always a metaphor of judgement, not remaking.

Psalm 2
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Isaiah 30
14 And he shall break it as the breaking of the potters' vessel that is broken in pieces; he shall not spare: so that there shall not be found in the bursting of it a sherd to take fire from the hearth, or to take water withal out of the pit.