Things New and Old

Ancient truths revealed in the Scriptures are often forgotten, disbelieved or distorted, and therefore lost in the passage of time. Such ancient truths when rediscovered and relearned are 'new' additions to the treasury of ancient truths.

Christ showed many new things to the disciples, things prophesied by the prophets of old but hijacked and perverted by the elders and their traditions, but which Christ reclaimed and returned to His people.

Many things taught by the Apostles of Christ have been perverted or substituted over the centuries. Such fundamental doctrines like salvation by grace and justification have been hijacked and perverted and repudiated by sincere Christians. These doctrines need to be reclaimed and restored to God's people.

There are things both new and old here. "Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things"
2Ti 2:7.

Monday, September 14, 2026

'Hell' and 'lake of fire' are distinct



'Hell' and 'lake of fire' are distinct; they are not the same;
Hell is temporal, but the lake of fire is eternal.
Hell can be avoided, but the lake of fire cannot!

Need proof? Here they are.

Mk 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

See, you can do something to avoid hell.

Re 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

See, whether your name was written in the book of life, you have absolutely no say... it is by pure grace; it must be, since it was written before the foundation of the world.

Rev 20 11 ¶ And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Note a few plain observations:

1. There is a very clear distinction between hell, where the dead are now, and the lake of fire - 'death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.'

2. Hell delivered up the dead... i.e. the dead are in hell now. They are not yet in the lake of fire.

Whosoever of the dead that hell delivered up that was not found written in the book of life were cast into the lake of fire.

BUT are there God's children in hell? I am still thinking. But note, there are the dead, small and great, standing before God (v12), and there are the dead delivered up by hell. They are two distinct groups mentioned here.

3. Those cast into the lake of fire were so because of their works. Judged by works, everyone deserves the lake of fire.

4. Those who go to heaven are because their names were written in the book of life. Judged by whether one's name is written in the book of life, then only those whose names were written in the book of life enter their eternal bliss.

Christopher Cunningham
The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death, the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, 'eternal fire- Catholic Catechism not even Rome gets it right.

Sing F Lau
I want the teaching of Scriptures!

Christopher Cunningham
Rev 1:17-18 19:20, Luke 16.

Sing F Lau
What does Rev 1:17-18 mean?
Is it the same as having the key of the 'lake of fire?'

And Rev 19:20 reads 'lake of fire', doesn't say 'hell'!
So, do you want to prove from the Scriptures that 'hell' and 'lake of fire' are synonymous? Give it a try.

Christopher Cunningham
I show how they are different. Hell is where the rich man went Luke 16 the finalization is addressed in Rev 1:17-18 taking the keys of both to their final place addressed in Rev 19:20.

Sing F Lau
Please demonstrate how Rev 1:1-18 is the finalization of the hell in Lk 16. And please show how Rev 1:17-18 is related to Rev 19:20.

Sing F Lau
Talk to you later; leaving for evening meeting.

Charles Page

Don't you people ever sleep over there? I am drinking coffee and trying to get wide awake, and you are going to church!!! What will you be doing after church? Going to school or work - hunting for lizards in the swamp? pullinP weeds in the garden?

You can avoid hell if you live a life consistent with Lazarus. We have got to discover the redeeming attributes of Lazarus! What was the rich man doing that Lazarus wasn't doing?

Charles Page
Sing, I am thinking, "are there non-elect in hades?" I am struggling with that.

Sing F Lau
Charles Page, where do you think are the non-elect dead now?

Charles Page
I don't know!

Some of the Primitive Baptists moved toward universalism as "no-hellers"; that is, everyone would be saved, and God would have a bride of true remnant grace believers called, naturally 'baptist' This is error, and some of the PBs believe they are the 'elect saved' and everyone else is hell bound. Sing, I am struggling with this. I am not certain of the doctrine of retribution, double predestination.

Perhaps the non-elect are just passed over and since the soul that sins dies then apart from regeneration the rest cease to exist at death and are in 'sheol' the earthly grave and there is no spirit to return to God. Just thinking! This does not agree with the fact that there will be thoes whose names are NOT in the book of life and are cast into the lake of fire.

Their resurrection could take place at the end of all things but I just find myself uncomfortable with this subject.

Christ treated Herod as a fox and had nothing to do with him. Perhaps an unelect is no more than an animal and when they die they go back to the dust of the earth, annihilation! I don't know. am i in trouble?

Sing F Lau
Depends what kind of trouble!!! <LOL>

You better get in touch with some regular PBs and find out from them. I am not a PB, though I have high regard for many that I know... even though they honestly tell me that I belong to a false church, not a true church. I have learned to live with that <LOL>