Old School PBs versus New School RBs

Stop regurgitating reformed shibboleths;
Study the Scriptures and think for yourself. 

#questiontime

#oldschoolnewschool

Leongsy
But did you really depart from the Reformed faith? Or were you just analysing it correctly? Coz u r still teaching the 1689 LBCF in your church, not only once, but 3 times. If you have departed from the Reformed Baptist faith, why did u teach the 1689 LBCF 3 times over the last 30 years?

sing
I went back to the faith held by the old-school Baptists who gave us the 1689 CoF.

The new-school Baptists, like the Reformed Baptists, have departed from what is faithfully summarised in the 1689 CoF.

I have studied and written extensively on the 1689 CoF... pointing out the glaring errors of the RBs.

Here is an example of how the new is so different from the old:

The new: you believe in order to be justified by God;

The old: you believe because you have been justified by God.

Here is a classic example:

On Faith and Justification

Dr John Gill (1697-1771) was an old-school particular-baptist theologian, universally esteemed by his contemporaries of various denominations, and also by Dr Robert L Reymond (1932-2013), who was a renowned reformed theologian.

Dr Reymond said of John Gill:
"Gill (1697-1771), a Baptist Puritan pastor, writes a thorough defence of Calvinistic theology."
- the above is listed under "Selected General Theological Bibliography" on page 1137 of Dr Robert L Reymond's "A New Systematic Theology of the Christian Faith" Nelson, 1998.

Dr John Gill on faith and justification:
"Faith is not the cause, but an effect of justification; it is not the cause of it in any sense; it is not the moving cause, that is the free grace of God... nor even the instrumental cause... it is not in any class of causes whatever; but it is the effect of justification... Now if faith is not the cause, but the effect of justification; then as every cause is before its effect, and every effect follows its cause, justification must be before faith, and faith must follow justification."

- A Body of Doctrinal Divinity Book II, Chapter V, section II. (1769)

Dr Robert L Reymond on faith and justification:
"The New Testament everywhere makes it plain that faith in Jesus Christ is the instrumental 'precondition' [in italics] of justification before God... Therefore, faith in Jesus Christ... must precede justification as its logical (not chronological) prius... Thus we have the order: effectual calling... and faith in Jesus Christ, justification, and glorification."

- A New Systematic Theology of the Christian Faith, page 707. (1998, Nelson)

How vast is the difference between the old-school and the new-school theology - it is a gulf unbridgeable!

If the words of Mr Luther - "the doctrine of justification is the article of a standing or falling church" - were true, then how many of the reformed churches are standing churches today?

Is your church standing?

Everlasting fire or the lake of fire in Mt 25:41

Brethren, find a few quiet minutes to peruse the short exchanges below.
(*peruse: read (something), typically thoroughly or carefully.)
-----------------

Leongsy
Matthew 25 KJT
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:   
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

Sir. I am listening to Elder Yanathan's Landmarks sermon 6; around the 17th min, I definitely heard him say Matthew 25:41 is referring to the Lake of Fire.

What do you think?

sing
I think that's a popular fable.
May the Lord bless you to use a bit of common sense.
Please consider these few things:

ONE:
"everlasting" is carelessly understood as eternal. Everlasting hell lasts as long as time lasts; it shall be ended (emptied and become irrelevant) at the end of time. The lake of fire is eternal - it shall be ushered in after the end of time, THAT IS, after the general resurrection and the final judgment.

TWO:
Please ask and think through.
- Of whom does the righteous Judge require to show those kind deeds to His people? Does He require those good works from those dead in trespasses and sins? Or does He require such good works from His redeemed people?

THREE:
Read the response in verse 25.
To whom will you attribute the response to the righteous Judge's charges/censures? Is it a response from those dead in trespasses and sins or from those who own the Judge as their Lord?

FOUR:
The three parables in Mt 25 have one, same theme:
- The ONE Bridegroom with BOTH wise and foolish virgins; BOTH are waiting for Him
- The ONE Master with BOTH the good/faithful servants, and the wicked/slothful servants. BOTH are his OWN servants.
- ONE Shepherd who has BOTH sheep and goats in His ONE Flock. BOTH are in His one flock - He separates them.

FIVE:
v46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Do a search on the  usage of "life eternal." You will discover the hard truth - life eternal is entered CONDITIONALLY through man's works of righteousness. Take a look here: https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2023/08/life-eternal-and-eternal-life.html

Heaven is accessed solely and wholly on the basis of Christ and His works alone.

And life eternal is not eternal life; and entering life eternal is NOT entering heaven.

CONCLUSION
All the parables describe some harsh realities ABOUT the kingdom of God...
- There are BOTH the wise and the foolish virgins waiting for the Groom in the kingdom of God.
- There are BOTH the good/faithful servants and the wicked/slothful servants of the Master in the kingdom of God
- There are BOTH the disciples who show kindness to the least of the Judge's redeemed, and there are disciples who don't, in the kingdom of God.

The immediate CONTEXT of the Mt 25  is the coming of the Bridegroom/ Master/Shepherd (the descriptions of the same Person, the Lord Jesus Christ) in 70AD to judge earthly theocratic Israel.

May the Lord help you understand. Amen.

Leongsy
Good. You should write a book on the History of the Particular Baptists vs the Reformed Baptists and also include all those incorrect interpretations of the Scriptures by the Deformed Reformed guys into it, and then u give your correct interpretations, so that everyone may know the truth.

sing
2 Timothy 2:15 KJT — Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Rightly dividing the word of truth is a WORK with these great purposes:
- THYSELF be approved unto God,
- THYSELF needn't to be ashamed.
- THYSELF to be found faithful.

Rightly dividing the word of truth is NOT to parade oneself; it's not to show the errors of others, unless they inquire or dispute.

If anyone wants to know the truth, they just need to have some common sense and be honest with what the text says.

Consider the above, and may our blessed Lord grant you understanding.

Amen. 

A Peculiar People, Zealous of Good Works

A Summary by the Old School Baptists on the Bible's  teaching on Good Works

1. Good works are only such as God has commanded in his Holy Word, and not such as without the warrant thereof are devised by men out of blind zeal, or upon any pretence of good intentions.

2. These good works, done in obedience to God’s commandments, are the fruits and evidences of a true and lively faith; and by them believers manifest their thankfulness, strengthen their assurance, edify their brethren, adorn the profession of the gospel, stop the mouths of the adversaries, and glory God, whose workmanship they are, created in Christ Jesus thereunto, that having their fruit unto holiness they may have the end eternal life.

3. Their ability to do good works is not all of themselves, but wholly from the Spirit of Christ;10 and that they may be enabled thereunto, besides the graces they have already received, there is necessary an actual influence of the same Holy Spirit, to work in them and to will and to do of his good pleasure;11 yet they are not bound to perform any duty, unless upon a special motion of the Spirit, but they ought to be diligent in stirring up the grace of God that is in them.

4.  They who in their obedience attain to the greatest height which is possible in this life, are so far from being able to supererogate, and to do more than God requires, as that they fall short of much which in duty they are bound to do.

5. We cannot by our best works merit pardon of sin or eternal life at the hand of God, by reason of the great disproportion that is between them and the glory to come, and the infinite distance that is between us and God, whom by them we can neither profit nor satisfy for the debt of our former sins; but when we have done all we can, we have done but our duty, and are unprofitable servants; and because they are good they proceed from his Spirit, and as they are wrought by us they are defiled and mixed with so much weakness and imperfection, that they cannot endure the severity of God’s punishment.

6. Yet notwithstanding the persons of believers being accepted through Christ, their good works also are accepted in him; not as though they were in this life wholly unblamable and unreprovable in God’s sight, but that he, looking upon them in his Son, is pleased to accept and reward that which is sincere, although accompanied with many weaknesses and imperfections.

7. Works done by unregenerate men, although for the matter of them they may things which God commands, and of good use both to themselves and to others; yet because they proceed not from a heart purified by faith, nor are done in a right manner according to the Word, nor to a right end, the glory of God, they are therefore sinful, and cannot please God, nor make a man meet to receive the grace from God, and yet their neglect of them is more sinful and displeasing to God.

(Chapter 16 of the 1689 CoF)

======

Good works are first and foremost owed to the LORD our God; then to those of the household of faith, and fellow men.

Matthew 22:

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Galatians 6

10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

The furnace of affliction

The furnace of affliction is indeed a good place for a child of God; it will purify by purging out much dross. However, it's a gouty fable to imagine that it's in any way fitting anyone in any way for heaven.

The only thing that HAS FITTED - perfectly and completely - anyone for heaven is the finished work of Christ alone.

The Macedonian who called

"And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us."

The Macedonian who called upon Apostle Paul to come and preach the gospel to them, was he already regenerated, or was he still dead in trespasses and sins, and needed the gospel preaching to be regenerated?

"And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul."

Was Lydia ALREADY regenerated before Apostle Paul met her, or was she regenerated through the preaching of Apostle Paul?

Is the Lord's opening her heart to understand the things which were spoken to her the same a the Lord regenerating her from her state of death?

Preaching the gospel is very necessary, but it is necessary ONLY for the purpose for which it was divinely ordained.

What did Paul's evangelism accomplish in Lydia?

==========

Constanzia ·
I always felt like he WAS regenerated.. why else would he care enough to listen to Paul or call for him in the first place?

Is the Lord's opening her heart to understand the things which were spoken to her the same a the Lord regenerating her from her state of death?

YES

The Lord is the only one who has the power to change someone. I think opening her heart is the same as regenerating her. He didnt need Paul " but it is necessary ONLY for the purpose for which it was divinely ordained."

Regeneration happens when God wants it to.. Pharoah was ready to cave several times but God harden his heart because (I think) God wanted people to witness 'more of' his awesome power. Not only to prove a point but to seal, stamp it and send it home HARD.

Saul on the road to Damascus saw the vision.. there is no mention of someone preaching to him before hand.. He was really bad.. persecuting Christians and all.. His heart was open because God wanted him... His own agenda didnt matter, he stopped dead in his tracks lol literally. God is the one with the power to open even the most unlikely of hearts// regenerate them.

I hope all that made sense, it did in my head lol

Constanzia
As I said in my earlier post and forgot to mention it to tie it into what I was just saying.. I think regeneration has a lot to do with being open hearing and understanding. If a person is not regenerated they can not/will not 'hear'..

Constanzia
Ironically enough I was reading tonight and I came across some scripture that said what I was trying to 🙂

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

**16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.***

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Romans 9:15-18

Sing
"Is the Lord's opening her heart to understand the things which were spoken to her the same as the Lord regenerating her from her state of death?"
YES
====

Does that mean that regeneration took place by the aid of Paul's preaching?

Constanzia
Does that mean that regeneration took place by the aid of Paul's preaching?

In my opinion, NO. God is the only one with the power to regenerate (I consider regeneration='Holy Ghost') someone. He does not need human aid at all. He is Almighty.

Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

"So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."

"For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy ghost, even from his mother's womb" Luke 1:15

Who preached to him?

"With God ALL things are possible" -Jesus 🙂

Sing
You answered my question,

"Is the Lord's opening her heart to understand the things which were spoken to her the same a the Lord regenerating her from her state of death?"

in the affirmative... therefore indicating that the Lord opened Lydia's heart because of hearing the preached word.

Constanzia
Now I am confused..
"Therefore indicating that the Lord opened Lydia's heart because of hearing the preached word."

Ok.. if this what I said it is not what I meant. I believe the Lord opens hearts BEFORE hearing the preached word.. How else would one receive the word?

After more consideration, I am more confused about regeneration.. I am not sure if is the same thing as open heart.

I think I may have misunderstood the question or I put worded wrong. Sorry for the confusion lol.

Sing
There is a great distinction between regenerating a dead person, and opening the heart of a living person to understand something.

The former is quickening, the latter enlightening.

Many confuse enlightening a living person as regenerating a dead person... thus ending with the common error of gospel regeneration.

Constanzia 
See now.. My husband has been trying to explain that to me, and I just did not get it.. The way you put it makes sense.

I get the difference now.. I think so many people use them interchangeably.. so that is how I was thinking.

Thank you for making it easier for me to grasp, brother Sing 🙂 and taking the time to help me understand when some people would just argue 🙂

"The last state of that man is worse than the first."

"The last state of that man is worse than the first."
"Even so, shall it be also unto this wicked generation."

A frightening warning but few take heed.

———————

Luke 11
24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.    
25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.    
26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

Leongsy
Sir, how would you interpret these verses?

sing
The parallel passage in Matthew reads thus.

Matt 12
43 ¶When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

Take careful note of the last sentence; it tells us what Jesus is saying.

Leongsy
But why can the house which has been swept clean of the Evil spirits be reoccupied with 7 other more wicked spirits? And this wicked generation is limited to the Pharisees and Sadducees and Scribes?

sing
It's cleansed of ONE evil spirit; not plural spirits.

The house which had been swept clean of the evil spirit was left EMPTY... it's an open invitation to be reoccupied. That's why!

The cleansed house did not receive the gospel of the kingdom of heaven -  preached by Christ and His Apostles - to dwell in it.

In context, the house speaks of Israel of that generation. Christ's ministry "cleansed" the house of the evil spirit of lies, traditions and errors, etc... but the house did not receive the truths taught by Christ, i.e. it's left EMPTY; it is not filled with and occupied by the truths taught by Christ.

Possessed by one evil spirit is fearful enough; their rejection of the Messiah made it far far worse, likened as possessed by an ADDITIONAL 7 other more wicked spirits.

The context is about that devil-possessed generation which rejected the Messiah... and ended up far worse than before... making it ripe for the 70 AD judgement - the end of the so-called everlasting theocratic Israel. God obliterated it at His appointed time.

An application/lesson:

It's dangerous to hear the truths but don't let them dwell in us and renew and transform our life.

Matthew 13:12 KJT — For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

Hearing the truth and not embracing it makes a man worse off.

God's truth demands reception and allegiance.

----------

LeongsyNoted with many thanks.

Salvation - past, present, and future

 

Salvation - past, present, and future

Let's reason a little!

Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD.

1. The PAST is what God HAS ALREADY DONE in Christ to have you saved with eternal salvation...
- He purposed your eternal redemption...
- Christ accomplished your eternal redemption...
- The Holy Spirit applied the eternal redemption to you personally...

All these activities are completely by free grace alone, plus nothing, and completed perfectly. As a result, you ARE SAVED... as saved as can be while here on earth, and you are completely and perfectly fit for eternal glory.

These divine activities are WITHOUT and APART from the gospel ministry.

There is gospel, good news, ONLY BECAUSE these divine acts HAVE TAKEN PLACE! If these divine activities securing eternal salvation had not taken place, there would have been NO GOSPEL. There is gospel because of what God HAS DONE to save His people in Christ Jesus and applied by the Holy Spirit.

2. The PRESENT is what you, God's children, must do to work out your OWN salvation through your obedience to the Father's will. God works in His children to will and do, but they must will and do the good pleasure of the Father. 

This salvation that God's children must work out for themselves is entirely different from the eternal salvation already accomplished and applied to them personally. This salvation is ongoing, involving their temporal well-being as God's children. This is temporal salvation through the gospel ministry, ministered by faithful men.

3. The FUTURE is what God WILL DO to consummate your eternal redemption at Christ's return. You await glorification. And this will be completely by free grace too - WITHOUT any aid or cooperation from men!

--------------------

Sing F Lau
The issue of earning God's favour does not arise. It is temporal salvation CONDITIONED upon obedience just as you affirmed - "... IF we only love Him with all our heart and all our soul and all our strength and all our mind... IF we believe and lay hold on the promises that God has made."

Sing
And IF you don't obey... then what?
[Someone has deleted all his/her comments]

Sing
If temporal salvation is CONDITIONED upon your works of obedience, then it is no more grace in the sense that eternal salvation is of grace.

Anything that requires man's activity is no more grace alone.

If you want to have multiple layers, it is fine... a layer of oil, and a layer of water - one salvation by grace alone, and one salvation conditioned on the obedience of God's children.

Sing F Lau
I don't need to separate them... they already are!
Grace alone is grace alone... requiring no part of man.

John Flores
"Grace alone is grace alone... requiring no part of man.
Anything that requires man's activity is no more grace alone." Well said Pastor Lau. (Romans 11:6)

Sing F Lau
Let me just get one thing clear... and let's stick to the issue at hand.

Is there a timely salvation that is CONDITIONED upon the obedience of God's children? Yes, or no.

There is no need to bring in other issues. If you can keep to this one issue, comment.

Johnny Davis
@Elder Ellis. Regarding the salvation, your comment affirms the signs on Sing's sign in all directions. My question is not to provide a license to intentionally commit sin or wrongdoing, but are there ANY conditions attached to man's life on earth (such as correct understanding of God's Word, church attendance) that have consequences on the "future" aspect of God's continued forgiveness? Guess my question is, do the signs represent God's time (spiritual), or man's time (physical). Thanks. We've not spoken for a while. I miss your insights from our Father.

Sing F Lau
Penny Karn @ "I believe so Sing!"

You believe what?????? That there is a timely salvation by God's grace that can be obtained WITHOUT human obedience?

In your effort to magnify grace, you have actually DENIGRATED and CHEAPENED grace... i.e. insisting both eternal salvation and temporal salvation are equally by the same grace.

If both are equally by God's grace, then all of God's elect are equally saved BOTH in the eternal and temporal sense, without any human activities. But that's denying the HARD facts of Scriptures.

That's not elevating grace... that destroying grace... making the grace of God incapable of accomplishing its goal.

Scriptures is its own witness:

Ro 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

You just won't keep them apart! You cheapen grace by mixing it with works!

Never mind, go learn from your husband!

Johnny Davis
@Penny. Let me first give my current belief on the subject of God's grace CONDITIONED on man. IF (another "condition"), the Word is available to an individual man, THEN (satisfaction of "condition") the responsibility falls on that individual, by God from His placing that individual in time and place, to know of God (more specifically, come to believe the gospel of Jesus, as Messiah from the sin world). That responsibility lies both with the unbelieving or untaught individual, and Chrstians, able by our example in life and love for man, to teach. So, disregarding whether that is 100% true, and the unbelieving American, becomes a believer by having heard the Word, and BELIEVES and receives the Holy Spirit, confesses, repents, and is even submersed in water in baptism, THEN, are there CONDITIONS as Sing speaks of, regarding BOTH, the life with God in the body, and the life with God eternally in the spirit. I'm not wishing to extend the nature of God, to those never having the ability by time and place to "hear." For the moment, only we, having been given by God, the Word. And, not as a license to live in the flesh, afterwards (please, don't go there) - I'm interested in knowing the truth of God's Word, from our time and place, in God's creation on Earth.

Sing F Lau
Penny Karn @ "But I think it is worth adding that temporal salvation is still completely by grace..."
=======
That's a completely erroneous statement - no matter how one qualifies and hedges it!!!

"Completely by grace" necessarily RULES out completely any human activities.

That statement insists that there is temporal salvation that is COMPLETELY without any human activities. And that's just sheer nonsense.

And she still goes blah blah blah!!!

I'm puzzled!!

Johnny Davis
@Sing. Gotta stab atch-'ya. We're not in formal worship service. You have a wonderful wife, from the photos. And, I'd bet she is as intelligent and smart, as God made her beautiful. You might want to "go learn from your wife!" some manners. Ladies are better at that, than we testosterone driven guys, most of the time.

Johnny Davis ·
@Sing. It was an intentional, personal stab at YOU, not for your anything about the subject, but purely to illustrate how the "stabs" you make at others, MAY come across to them as hateful. In that regard, it was a "loving" stab, intended to be "light-natured." I'll not make another, because more and more, just leads to the likelihood of mean spirit, sinful. It is the type of thing to say to me, personally, and why I do not ask you questions, anymore, though the answers have been helpful, even when given in an inappropriate spirit. I'll continue to gleen from your status, what God intended to reveal to your readers, but, communication, from me, will no longer to initiated to you, difrectly. Hope you understand, my heart's intent, prayerfully. Love you.

Sing F Lau
Johnny Davis, I know you are a tender kindhearted man - I don't think you are ever capable of being mean and hateful.

May be I don't have the finesse people expected of me... that's an art I have not cultivated. Easier to speak plain and blunt.

Johnny Davis
@Sing. You have the heart of God, without doubt.

Cheri Thomas
Stick to your guns, Bro Sing. I appreciate your 'strong meat' and plain words.

Sing F Lau
Penny, whoever your teachers may be, it is most certainly NOT the Holy Spirit who taught you to believe that Eph 2:1-8 is an example of timely salvation!

Have you even understood the concept of timely salvation?????

Go, please get your husband to teach you a thing or two.

Sola fide is putting the cart before the horse

John 3:3 KJT
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 2:1 KJT
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

It's common sense that life precedes the actions of that life; faith is an activity of spiritual life. Except a man be born again (regenerated) with spiritual life, he is still dead in trespasses and sins, utterly incapable of exercising faith.

EVEN SO...
To say that your faith is the cause of your justification by God is to put the cart before the horse.

It's equally common sense to say that a man's justification freely by God precedes his faith in Jesus Christ. Why? You ask.

It's common sense.
An unjustified man is a man still in his native state of condemnation and death; a man in his native state can't possibly exercise faith in order to be justified by God. Sola fide is fiction.

Have you not read these words:
Romans 3:24 KJT — Being justified FREELY by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Romans 5:18 KJT — Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Adam's sin brought the condemnation of death upon all represented by him; EVEN SO, Christ's righteousness secured the justification of life to all represented by Him. Amen.

At the justification freely by God's grace, the righteousness of Christ is freely APPLIED to an elect personally (it's already IMPUTED to all the elect during the double imputation at the cross) in his native state of condemnation and death UNTO the justification of life.

The Father's free and gracious act of applying Christ's righteousness to the redeemed gives the divine warrant to the Spirit of God to regenerate such; that is why justification is termed as justification of life. (Rom 5:18)

Your faith evidences your justified state, freely by God's grace; even so, your breath evidences the prior impartation of life; your breath is not the cause of getting you your life.

May the gracious Lord grant you to understand this blessed good news.

p/s - just in case, if any is misguided in this too:

- Faith is NOT the gift of God; eternal salvation is the gift of God, Eph 2:8. Eternal salvation is through the faith of Christ, i.e. Christ's faithfulness in discharging the redemptive work to save His people.

- Faith is ONE of the many saving graces worked in a child of God (an elect that has been justified, regenerated, adopted and bestowed with the Spirit of adoption to indwell him) by the Holy Spirit, Gal 5:22.

- A gift comes from without; it's a saving grace that is worked from within by the indwelling Spirit of God.

May our gracious Lord grant you understanding.
Amen.

 

 

Someone Bitching about the RBs

https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/pfbid02f6FJs12QM6GQZP1ACcLkEhxtvaZ7sq67rWXdT9Zrev2KMS28NXbs7vYHeU5hGtfml3 June 2025 

An exchange with someone bitching about the Reformed Baptists... 
---------

Leongurl
I have had enough of the RBs, especially Kenny. Pure idiosyncrasy. He never uses his brain.   

sing
I do still love them despite all the doctrinal differences. (They are lovely people I associated with for nearly 20 years before I was denounced as a heretic.)

Leongurl
Aiyah, you only see them once a year, and they don't force their theology on to you. Else you will VOMIT Blood also.

Just asking, since you said that you can still love them. If I get baptised in xyRBC and become a member there, would you continue to teach me?

Only a spineless and brainless person can be forced into any belief!

sing
I will ask them questions politely... to make them think and see their errors.  I have not given up on anyone who would listen and can be reasoned with. 🙂

Leongurl
You haven't replied to this Q: "Would you still continue to teach me?

U should have PITY on me, coz I get fed all the WRONG Theology by the people here. So if you don't want to teach me anymore, then I will become like them, very ignorant. In fact, all of the church leaders here are all very ignoramus.

(Since you are aware that you are being fed the wrong theology, this presupposes that you already know the right theology, does it not?)️

sing
The answer to your question has two perspectives. (I have from the beginning exhorted you to be churched; you have remained churchless for too long.)

Getting baptised and becoming a member of the church BRINGS YOU under the rule and authority of elders of the church.

You must understand this aspect of the biblical churchmanship.

When you are a member of a church, you have put yourself under the jurisdiction/spiritual oversight of that church. I must respect this biblical truth.

My continuing to take liberty to teach you may be seen as meddling with the members of another church; this is especially so because there is a theological controversy between xy-RBC and a "heretic" in their eyes.

So, you need to find out when you are interviewed for baptism and membership whether you are free to continue asking me questions!!!🤣🤣

I don't turn away anyone who comes to me with questions, not even the smart alecks.

Ask them questions politely... make them think and see their errors.  DON'T give up on anyone.

Leongurl
Aiyah. I just don't tell xyRBC that I continue to learn from you lah. I can pretend that I am not learning from u.️

sing
You can pretend, BUT Christ, the Head of His church sees all things that I do. I am subjected to His headship.

Leongurl
Well, u r just helping me to discover the TRUTH only, u r not  teaching me to rebel against xyRBC️

sing
Hebrews 13:17 KJT
"Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you."

This is a command. If you can, with clear conscience, submit to the rule of the elders of the church, then join the church. I would be more than happy that you are churched!

Leongurl
xyRBC can church me pastorally, I don't have any problems with that. But Theologically, I don't want to subscribe to their Theology 😅. Later I have to subscribe to Andrew Fuller’s rubbish and AW Tozer's teaching n there goes part of my Temporal Salvation already. When one's doctrines are wrong, one's good works will also be incorrect. And good works determine our Temporal Salvation

sing
You are too reactionary minded. When you are a member, you have the biblical standing to raise your questions and the church has the duty to deal with them. You don't have to subscribe to errors but you have the right to insist on hearing the truth from the inspired Scriptures.

2 Timothy 4:2 KJV — Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

Not everyone in xyRBC is brain-dead like you think. Good questions will inevitably make some start THINKING... and ASKING Q's. That's when conversion starts taking place.

Leongurl
The church has a duty to shut up dissenters who don't subscribe to their teaching. This was what happened to me in zRBC. Once bitten, twice shy. I won't try it in xyRBC

U should read what I told Smarty there.

sing
The most basic thing is: you have to make up your own mind whether you want to be a member of a church.

Otherwise, all is just futile talks.

What truth did you attempt to show them?

What did you do?

How did you do it?

Leongurl
I also want to advance in learning God's words. I have tons of things to learn. Let sleeping dogs lie.

sing
You won't; you will keep on whining and bitching about them being brainless and acting like idiots. 🤣🤣

What truth have you attempted to teach them?

What did you do?

How did you do it? 

Incarnation - the eternal Word was made flesh

Lk 1:35 "The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."

Jn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God....
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Some questions:

In what sense is Jesus the ONLY BEGOTTEN of the Father?

Is "the Word was made flesh" a description of the incarnation?

In "the Word was made flesh", what happened?

Who/what > INCARNATION > Who/what?

What is the product of incarnation?

Did incarnation bring about that which did not exist before it?

What is the product of the incarnation called?

Who was incarnated - the eternally divine Word, or the divine/human Son of God?

Was it eternally Divine Word > incarnated > divine/human Son of God?

Was it divine/human Son of God > incarnated > divine/human Son of God?

Was the eternal Word exactly the same as Jesus the divine/human Son of God?

Can someone give me some straight answers, please!

And Scriptures rightly divided, please!
---------

Cheri Thomas

♥ the tigers!!

Charles Page
I have dealt with this issue in discussions with United Pentecostals (anti-trinitarian), Jehovah Witness (anti-trinitarian) and seemingingly the SBC in submission of wives to husbands!
A lot of speculation

Charles Page
Q. In what sense is Jesus the ONLY BEGOTTEN of the Father?
A. He, along with the Holy Spirit, proceeds eternally from the Father in a redeeming function not duplicated by the other.

Q. Is 'the Word was made flesh" a description of the incarnation?
A.Conceived in the virgin Mary's womb. Divine "Logos" becomes flesh.

Q. In "the Word was made flesh", what happened?
A. Eternal word of God became human and took on the qualities of man accomplished by the Holy Spirit.

Q. Who/what > INCARNATION > Who/what?
A. "Alpha and omega" became homosapien w/o ending.

Q. What is the product of incarnation?
A. Death conquerer rather than conquered by death

Q. Did incarnation bring about that did not exist before it?
A. Yes, second Adam

Q. What is the product of the incarnation called?
A. 2nd Adam

Q. Who was incarnated - the eternally divine Word, or the divine/human Son of God?
A. The eternally divine Word

Q. Was it eternally Divine Word > incarnated > divine/human Son of God?
A. Yes

Q. Was it divine/human Son of God > incarnated > divine/human Son of God?
A. No.

Q. Was the eternal Word exactly the same as Jesus the divine/human Son of God?
A. No

Q. Can someone give me some straight answers please!.
A. Yes

14y

Charles Page
And Scriptures rightly divided, please!
Was that a question or a command?

It takes a highly trained Biblical scientist to "rightly divide" the scriptures, which I ain't, and there seems to be no human standard that determines when the scriptures are rightly divided.

Scientifically, rightly divided is a relative term and not ultimate.

Like a deck of cards, there is an order, but a joker card that has no particular place but changes the whole game.

Now some person knows all the different games but not me.

Sing F Lau
Q. In what sense is Jesus the ONLY BEGOTTEN of the Father?
A (c) He, along with the Holy Spirit, proceeds eternally from the Father in a redeeming function not duplicated by the other.
A (s) Jesus the man is the only begotten of the Father because he is the ONLY man/son begotten of God. The manner Jesus was begotten is absolutely unique. God begot one such man alone! God DID NOT beget another like Jesus.

Jesus is the only begotten because He alone is the eternal Word made flesh... the God/man.

Now, please explain those words, "proceeds eternally from the Father". Thanks.

Sing F Lau
Q. is 'the Word was made flesh" a description of the incarnation?
A (c) Conceived in the virgin Mary's womb. Divine "Logos" becomes flesh.

A (s) Yes, the 'Word was made flesh' is a description of the incarnation of the eternal Word.

Who/what is conceived in the virgin's womb? The Son of God?

Before that conception, did what was conceived exist at all? That is, before conception in the virgin's womb, did the Son of God exist?

I didn't ask, "...., did the eternal Word exist?

Sing F Lau
Q. In "the Word was made flesh", what happened?
A (c) Eternal word of God became human and took on the qualities of men accomplished by the Holy Spirit.… See more

Sing F Lau
Q. Who/what > INCARNATION > Who/what?
A. "alpha and omega" became homosapien w/o ending.

A (s) Eternal Word the second Person of the Godhead > the eternal was made flesh > the God/man Jesus the only begotten Son of God.

Sing F Lau
Q. What is the product of incarnation?
A (c) Death conquerer rather than conquered by death

A (s) Jesus, the only begotten Son of God, is the product of incarnation. Before incarnation, the product of incarnation DID NOT exist. The eternal divine Word existed.

Sing F Lau
Q. Who was incarnated - the eternally divine Word, or the divine/human Son of God?
A (c) Eternally divine Word

A (s) Yes, eternally divine Word. So, before incarnation, there is no Jesus, the Son of God.

So many insist that the Son of God was incarnated, and we get the Son of God... THAT IS, the Son of God was made flesh and as a result was get the Son of God!

If the Son of God existed before incarnation, then glorious and momentous event incarnation is redundant!

God wastes NO MOVES... men so often do!

Sing F LauCharles, thank you for giving me some answers. I appreciated that!