The Jailer asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

 

The Jailer asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

And they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Acts 16:30-31.

Multitudes of teachers insist that the Jailer wanted to know what he must do to be saved from the lake of fire, and that Apostle Paul told him to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ in order for him and his household to be saved from it.

Do you believe the same too?

=======

Sing
Supposing you do, ARE you NOT making Apostle Paul teach, and do you not also believe this NONSENSE:
- eternal salvation from hell by proxy - jailer's believing shall save NOT ONLY him BUT ALSO his household from hell;
- eternal salvation from the lake of fire is through some activities of men.

Go figure, FB friends! Tell me if the obvious conclusions are faulty! Ideas have implications, just remember that.

Just what was uppermost in the Jailer's mind when he asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" What did he want to be saved from... he and his household?

And who is his household? And how shall his household be saved through his believing?

Please give me some sensible answers. Thanks

Michael Green
He likely wanted to save his head at that moment!

Sing
Acts 16:27 "And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled."

What explains his action?

Roman law demands that if a prisoner escapes, the jailer responsible for guarding that life shall forfeit his life for the life that escapes!

Yes, no one escaped... but "he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had fled."

He was overwhelmed by the fact that none of the prisoners had escaped YET... they still could... the doors were all still open. Should anyone decide to escape, the jailer would lose his head! "What must I do to be saved" so that you would all remain and escape not... ....

Jailer's household - his wife and children? Or his fellow prison officers under his jurisdiction?

Lydia's household - her husband and children? Or her servants under her jurisdiction?

Chase Harrison
Just to share my thoughts:

"And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled." - Acts 16:27

I have always viewed this whole situation as the Jailer was certainly not inquiring about eternal salvation. That's not what was on his mind at that very moment! What was on his mind? The above verse gives us strong indication of the context.

It was a serious offense for a Roman soldier or guard to fall asleep at their post and not keep watch over their prisoners, especially if any prisoners escaped. The penalty of that was death. So, it appears, that out of fear of the penalty of death under Roman law (because he assumed the prisoners would flee and supposed that they did flee), the Jailer goes to enact the penalty of death upon himself.

But Paul cries out with a loud voice and tells the Jailer to do no harm unto himself because "we are all here", meaning they hadn't actually fled as the Jailer supposed. So, when the Jailer then asks his question about what must he do to be saved?, to me, he is obviously still worried about the penalty of death that the Roman government would execute upon him for falling asleep at his nightly watch. He figures that once the "magistrates" find out what has happened that they will surely have him justly put to death by Roman law.

So while the Jailer's question is most likely with the context of being saved from the penalty of death, what Paul tells him is not only going to save him from that penalty of death but in a much more abundant way. Through this whole experience, the Jailer and his house are about to be saved to the gospel truth of Jesus Christ and blessed to come into the church of the Lord Jesus Christ in water baptism. What a blessing!

I liken the salvation here contextually to Acts 2:37-41, where many were pricked in the heart after they heard the gospel preached and wanted to know what should they do?? And after Peter answered what they should do, he followed up with an interesting statement, "Save yourselves from this untoward generation". Right after that statement we read "then they that gladly received his word were baptized". Here we have a salvation tied to hearing the gospel, believing the gospel, then being obedient to the gospel and being added to the Lord's church by water baptism. This is obviously purely discipleship and not sonship. These people were saved from an untoward generation to the gospel church and truth of Jesus Christ, and not saved from hell to Heaven.

I think the same thing applies to the situation with the Jailer. He was not only saved from a physical death, but he and his house were blessed to receive the truth of Jesus Christ and come into the gospel church that day!

"And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house." - Acts 16:33,34

- (all this referring to the Jailer and his house)

Chase Harrison
Furthermore, if the Jailer was worried or concerned about his eternal destination and being saved eternally..... then why would he kill himself?? That seems absurd to me!

If I was worried about my eternal destiny (and by the grace of God I'm not), but IF I was, then I would not kill myself while in that state! I would do everything I could (at least in my mind) to be sure of my eternal destiny before I died.

Obviously, the Jailer was greatly and immediately concerned with the imminent penalty of death that he knew would be enacted upon him for allowing prisoners to escape on his watch.

Mark Thomas
Brother Keith, the prisoners were no longer contained and still could have overpowered one man and left the prison. Thus the fact that they were all still there was not sufficient to set aside all of his fear.

Sing
Was Apostle Paul conscious that if any of the prisoners escaped, the Jailor and his officers will pay with their lives???

Charles Page
hell, no, hades yes! Paul was leading the jailer and his household from the torture of hades and over the chasm into paradise. They certaintly were not led from the lake of eternal destruction they were regenerate!!!

Perseverance of the Saints: Old Truth vs New Fable

Perseverance in the state of grace
with
Perseverance in a life of faith and holiness.

 

The Old School Baptists summarized their understanding of the doctrine OF THE PERSEVERANCE OF THE  SAINTS in these words. The New School Baptists have perverted this biblical teaching.

1689.17. Paragraph 1.
"Those whom God has accepted in the beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, and given the precious faith of his elect unto, can neither totally nor finally fall from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved, seeing the gifts and callings of God are without repentance, from which source he still begets and nourishes in them faith, repentance, love, joy, hope, and all the graces of the Spirit unto immortality; and though many storms and floods arise and beat against them, yet they shall never be able to take them off that foundation and rock which by faith they are fastened upon; notwithstanding, through unbelief and the temptations of Satan, the sensible sight of the light and love of God may for a time be clouded and obscured from them, yet he is still the same, and they shall be sure to be kept by the power of God unto salvation, where they shall enjoy their purchased possession, they being engraved upon the palm of his hands, and their names having been written in the book of life from all eternity."

Paragraphs 2 and 3 are a further elaboration of Paragraph 1.

======

Notes

1. Those whom God has accepted in the Beloved are effectually called out of their native state of sin and death to that state of grace and salvation in Jesus Christ, 1689.10.1.

- The effect of this free and sovereign activity of God is immutable; those called into the state of grace in the Beloved "shall certainly persevere THEREIN [in the state of grace and salvation in Christ Jesus) to the end, and be eternally saved."

- That is the essence of the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints; they immutably REMAIN in the state of grace and salvation into which they have been called. 

The New School Baptists - RBs and other shades of Sovereign and Grace Baptists - have perverted this biblical teaching by substituting perseverance in the state of grace with perseverance in a life of faith and holiness.

The doctrine that declares the immutable effect of God's sovereign act of effectual calling HAS BEEN PERVERTED into a doctrine that declares the indispensable effort of man in a life of faith and holiness.

Perseverance in the state of grace is the immutable effect of God's free and gracious act in calling His elect into that state; it does not involve or depend upon any activities of those effectually called.

The fable of a life of faith and holiness is completely repudiated in the summary above.

==========

The text of 
Paragraph 2
This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election,4 flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father, upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ and union with him,5 the oath of God,6 the abiding of his Spirit, and the seed of God within them,7 and the nature of the covenant of grace;8 from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof.

Paragraph 3.
And though they may, through the temptation of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins, and for a time continue therein,9 whereby they incur God's displeasure and grieve his Holy Spirit,10 come to have their graces and comforts impaired,11 have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded,12 hurt and scandalize others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves,13 yet shall they renew their repentance and be preserved through faith in Christ Jesus to the end.14

Dellis Worsham Sr.
Amen, I always enjoy your lessons.

Redemption through outward means?

https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/pfbid02qvyzA3s3zjj4HezKcon3ZLcdA3oRn2ioJh26zTXAASyusjEdUkXPmUhLMmeyeRNwl

Sir, what do you think of this QnA?
Q. By what outward means are we given redemption?
A. Christ gives redemption by His word, the sacraments & prayer.

------

The above is a catechism question and answer by a well-known Reformed minister.

What do you think of the question and answer?

If you have understood the gospel of Christ, the errors and confusion in both the question and answer will glare* at you; otherwise, they are smooth words.

*glare - stare angrily or fiercely.

Sing F Lau
Redemption is paid with His righteous life and blood on the cross. Not sacraments, not prayers.
--------
Yes, the redemption purposed by God the Father for His elect was accomplished/secured by God the Son through His sinless life of obedience (thus securing the righteousness needed) and His atoning death (thus bearing away the wages of sin) on the cross.

The question, "Christ gives redemption or God the Father gives redemption?" is a little bit like asking, "Mother gives life or the father gives life?"

As I have tried to explain, both the mother and the father work in unity and harmony to give life.

In the covenant of redemption, the three Persons of the Triune God covenanted to work in perfect unity and harmony to execute everything needed for the eternal salvation of the elect, to bring them to glory.

Yes, in the redemption of God's elect, only divine activities are involved, excluding every outward means imaginable; otherwise, salvation by grace is denied and repudiated.

Outward means require human involvement to use those means; i.e. they require human work.

Only those to whom the redemption has been freely bestowed by divine grace are capable of utilising those outward means to work out their own salvation... for their temporal salvation.

Outward means belong to the sphere of temporal salvation.

Sing
Isa 1:18a "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD..."

Let's consider the question first.
Q. By what outward means are we given redemption?

a. Some word meanings:
- "redemption" - deliverance, esp. from the just penalty of sin; finally from the eternal lake of fire. This redemption is by Christ's life and death alone: Heb 9:12 "Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us."

- "means" - something used to attain/achieve a result; in this case, the result is to be given redemption.

b. The question assumes/presupposes a few things:
- that redemption is given by some outward means.
- that a man without redemption is capable of using those means to be given redemption.
- that redemption is given CONDITIONED upon a man (WITHOUT redemption yet) using the outward means provided.

c. Some questions
Q. What is the spiritual state of a man who has not been given redemption by Christ?
Q. Is such a man capable of using the means provided in order to be given redemption?
Q. Supposing such a man is capable, does his using the means provided to receive the redemption constitute some works on his part?

1Pe 1:13
Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Sing
One asked:
Christ gives redemption, or God the Father gives redemption?
Redemption is paid with His righteous life and blood on the cross.
Not sacraments, not prayers.
----------

Good question.
The answer provided specifically stated that it is Christ who gives redemption through the means stated.

Generally, the three Persons in the Triune God act in unison and harmony in the redemption of the elect.
- God the Father purposed the redemption,
- God the Son accomplished the redemption purposed by God the Father, and
- God the Spirit applies (simple present tense) the redemption to each elect (while dead in trespasses and sins); this work continues until the last elect has been effectually called to redemption.

The three Persons of the Godhead are intimately involved in giving/bestowing/applying the redemption to an elect in his native state of sins and condemnation in Adam.

The 1689.10.1 CoF put this succinctly.

"Those whom God hath predestined unto life, He is pleased in His appointed and accepted time, effectually to call, by His Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ..."

This is when and how redemption IS GIVEN or APPLIED to an elect:
- at God's appointed and accepted time...
- an elect is in his native state, i.e. in sin, death, and condemnation in Adam

"... by His Word and Spirit" refer to the Second and Third Person's of the Triune God."

Many RBs ignorantly take "His Word" as referring to the Scriptures or the preached word. This is clearly without common sense, i.e. stupid. (You can think of some obvious reasons). This fable is also repudiated by what is said in 1689.10.3.

May the Lord give us understanding.

Amen.

Sing
Are these two questions asking the same thing?
Q. By what outward means are we given redemption?
Q. By what outward means are we to experience the promised blessings?

Dellis
Sing F Lau No.

Sing
Dellis, Brother, please explain. Thank you.

Dellis 
Sing F Lau - The outward means wherewith we receive redemption pertain to our eternal salvation, where the outward means wherewith we enjoy/experience our promised blessings pertain to our temporal salvation.

The first is the work of God, while the latter involves our working out our own salvation.

Sing 
Dellis, Thank you so much. I'm delighted with your answer.

Procreation activity of mankind in the first 15 centuries

Genesis 6
1 ¶And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

I have been tossing a question in my mind.

In the first 15+ century, up to Noah’s time, what was happening in the procreation activity of mankind?

Here are some scenarios.

1. Sons of men and daughters of men joined themselves as husbands and wives, and they brought forth sons and daughters… (without no further distinction); and their sons and daughters continue the procreation process.

- The simple and plain command to them was “Be fruitful and multiply…”; no caveats or restrictions.

- All happened naturally and normally for 15+ centuries.

2. Sons of God and daughters of God joined themselves as husbands and wives, and brought forth sons and daughters. All their sons and daughters were also godly, and they continued the procreation process.

- Were there non-elect among the descendants of Seth?

- If there were, then who did they marry, godly Sethites?

- If so, did that constitute mixed marriage, then? (i.e. godly Sethites marry ungodly Sethites.)

3. Sons of godless men and daughters of godless men joined themselves as husbands and wives, and brought forth sons and daughters, all their sons and daughters were also ungodly, and they continue the procreation process.

- Were there elect of God among the descendants of Cain?

- If there were, then who did they marry? Godless Cainites?

- If so, did that constitute mixed marriage, then?

With 2 and 3, there was no intermarriage between the so-called ‘godly’ line and the ‘godless’ line. There was a clear segregation for 15+ centuries.  After 15+ centuries of clear segregation, intermarriage between “sons of godly men” and “daughters of godless men” began to happen, leading to the universal moral corruption in the time of Noah.

- This is the most popular explanation of what happened in Genesis 6 – mixed marriage between the sons of the godly line and daughters of the godless line.

Can you think of another scenario?

I would be pleased to hear.

Thanks most kindly.
-------

Paul Howard

Read the Book of 1st Enoch and you'll get some answers, and don't worry, the book was WIDELY known throughout Israel in the 1st century, as it is even quoted in the New Testament by Apostles, moved by the Holy Spirit, to include Jesus' half-brother (Jude). It's NOT scripture, but it will give you the truth of which you seek. The "sethite" view of Genesis 6 is not true to the TEXT of scripture. The mating of good and bad people does not create GIANTS throughout the earth, which were a problem still all the way til the time of David. And these giants weren't "big people". The nephilim were cursed offspring of fallen angels and human women. Fallen angels are fallen angels. Demons are the earthbound spirits of the nephilim. You will also find that the angels who left their first estate also taught men warfare, cosmetics and all kinds of "secret" knowledge that, over millennia, corrupted the whole human race AND the bloodlines with giant DNA. Had Satan's plan succeeded, there could be NO messiah, So much so that Noah was called "perfect in his generations" or untainted blood. It obviously didn't mean Noah was sinless for the text tells you that Noah "found GRACE in the eyes of the Lord." 

The righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ

Romans 3 KJT
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Note a few things:

1. “the righteousness of God”

This is the righteousness of God’s own provision; it’s not His attribute of righteousness.

2. “by faith of Jesus Christ”
This is the faithfulness of Jesus Christ in His work of redeeming His people; IT IS the means by which God provided the righteousness needed for the justification of condemned sinners because of their sins, i.e. “Being justified freely by his grace.”

3. “upon all them that believe”
The righteousness of God's own provision has been freely bestowed/applied to all the believing ones;  that is, all the believing ones HAVE BEEN accounted the righteousness of God’s own provision in Jesus. 

Believing is AN EFFECT of justification; i.e. "the just shall live by faith".

Believing is NOT A CONDITION of justification by God; this is a popular fable spawned by the Protestant reformation.

4. Perfect and complete obedience to the commandments of God, i.e. perfect righteousness is the condition for justification by God.
- Christ Jesus ALONE met those conditions. THUS, “Being justified freely by his grace THROUGH the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

5. Note the SENSE closely.
- "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus."

Your justification is FREELY BY God's grace; it's NOT by your faith!.

Your justification is THROUGH the redemption that is in Christ Jesus; it's NOT THROUGH your faith!.

It's blasphemous to insist otherwise.

Lord, have mercy upon the usurpers. 

Distinct Aspects of Justification - John Buchanan

Leonsie
Did I grasp the gist of what James Buchanan was trying to lay out in his book? Justification is Christ's work, but our own faith is AFTER we have been given the Holy Spirit.

------------

sing
I'm delighted that you are looking at Buchanan's magnum opus. Too many reformed people don't have a clue about the distinct aspects of justification pointed out by Buchanan in this classic work on justification.

We need to be clear on the distinct role each Person of the Triune God in relationship to the justification of an elect in his native state of condemnation and death and alienation.

1 It's God who justifies.

A. God himself purposed justification for those He had elected out of the fallen race of Adam. The Decretal Aspect of Justification

B. God himself provided the basis/ground for the justification of His elect - by Christ's righteousness and blood.
- This is the Legal Aspect of Justification.
- This is Justified by the faith OF Christ. Romans 3:22, Gal 2:16,20; 3:22, Ph 3:9)

C. God Himself freely applies the righteousness of Christ to the elect when they are dead in trespasses and sins, at His own appointed and approved time.
- This is the Vital/Personal Aspect of Justification.
- This is justification by the grace of God. Romans 3:24.
- When the righteousness of Christ is freely applied to an elect, the Holy Spirit has the divine warrant to regenerate the spiritually dead.
- Those regenerated by the Spirit are adopted by the Father, and are given the Spirit of adoption to dwell in them.
- This indwelling Spirit of adoption works the fruit of the Spirit in them, including faith. Romans 8:15.

D. God Himself provides His children the means/ instrument to experience the blessedness of their justification by God's free grace (C above).
- the indwelling Spirit of God works faith in God's children, enabling them to believe. BUT they must do the work of believing.
- Believing is an activity of man, it's work.
- John 6:29 KJT — "Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."
- This is the Practical/Experiential Aspect of Justification. This is what is described in Gen 15:1-6.

E. God Himself will consummate the justification He has purposed before the foundation of the world.
- The consummation shall take place at the general resurrection to glorification.
- Glorification is the Final Aspect of Justification

I hope the above makes sense. If not, ask.

The New versus the Old

Jeremiah 6:16 Thus saith the LORD,

Stand ye in the ways,

and see, and ask for the old paths,

where is the good way, and walk therein,

and ye shall find rest for your souls.

But they said, We will not walk therein.

#questiontime
#oldschool_vs_newschool

Leon Sy
But did you really depart from the Reformed faith? Or were you just analysing it correctly? Coz u r still teaching the 1689 LBCF in your church, not only once, but 3 times. If u hv departed from the Reformed Baptist faith, y did u teach the 1689 LBCF 3 times over the last 30 years.

sing  
I went back to the faith held by the old-school Baptists who gave us the 1689 CoF.

The new school Baptists, like the Reformed Baptists, have departed from what is faithfully summarised in the 1689 CoF.

I have studied and written extensively on the 1689 CoF... pointing out the glaring errors of the RBs.

Here is an example of how the new is so different from the old:

The new: you believe in order to be justified by God;

The old: you believe because you have been justified by God.

Here is a classic example:

On Faith. and Justification

Dr John Gill (1697-1771) was an old-school particular-baptist theologian, universally esteemed by his contemporaries of various denominations, and also by Dr Robert L. Reymond (1932-2013), a renowned reformed theologian.

Dr Reymond said of John Gill:

"Gill (1697-1771), a Baptist puritan pastor, writes a thorough defence of Calvinistic theology."

- the above is listed under "Selected General Theological Bibliography" on page 1137 of Dr. Robert L Reymond's "A New Systematic Theology of the Christian Faith" Nelson, 1998.

Dr John Gill on faith and justification:

"Faith is not the cause, but an effect of justification; it is not the cause of it in any sense; it is not the moving cause, that is the free grace of God... nor even the instrumental cause... it is not in any class of causes whatever; but it is the effect of justification... Now if faith is not the cause, but the effect of justification; then as every cause is before its effect, and every effect follows its cause, justification must be before faith, and faith must follow justification."

- A Body of Doctrinal Divinity Book II, Chapter V, section II. (1769)

Dr Robert L Reymond on faith and justification:

"The New Testament everywhere makes it plain that faith in Jesus Christ is the instrumental 'precondition' [in italic] of justification before God... Therefore, faith in Jesus Christ... must precede justification as its logical (not chronological) prius... Thus we have the order: effectual calling... and faith in Jesus Christ, justification, and glorification."

- A New Systematic Theology of the Christian Faith, page 707. (1998, Nelson)

How vast is the difference between the old-school and the new-school theology - it is a gulf unbridgeable!

If the words of Mr Luther - "the doctrine of justification is the article of a standing or falling church" - were true, then how many of the reformed churches are standing churches today?

Is your church standing?

Shibboleth and religious jargon are not enough!

 

The preacher said,
'But in evangelism I have purposed to know nothing among people but Jesus Christ and Him Crucified and offer the salvation to all, leaving the hedging and selecting up to God.'

==========

An inquirer:

You preach Christ, and Him crucified! Good, Brother! The Lord bless you!

- Which Jesus Christ do you preach?

- Why did he come? To save! Save who? Tell the truth. Don't lie to the hearers. Don't hide anything from them!

- But why was He crucified? For sins. For whose sins? Tell the hearers the truth. Don't leave them to believe lies.

- Crucified for whom? Tell the truth. Don't lie to the hearers.

- What did his crucifixion achieve? Redemption? Whose redemption? Was the redemption accomplished for certain specific people, or was redemption made possible for all? Tell the truth. Don't deceive your hearers!

- You actually offer salvation? To who? The dead who need salvation? Would such be able to accept your offer?

- Did Christ send you to offer salvation?

You can preach Christ, and Him crucified, without proclaiming those gospel facts! What a wonder!

Shibboleth and religious jargon are not enough!

Give them the gospel truth!

 

Scruples about "once saved always saved."

LeongSy
Dr Ezra does not subscribe to the "Once saved always saved" mantra.
What do you think?

Sing
I assume that when a man disagrees with something, he MUST have understood what he disagrees with. Otherwise, he is at best unwise or at worst, foolish.

On "once saved always saved" - let me inquire,

Let him who disagrees with "once saved always saved" tell us, "once saved always saved by WHOM, and from WHAT?"

Can you tell us what "once saved always saved " means? Thank you

LeongSy
I don't call anyone a fool coz I don't think I am better than them. You may contact Dr Ezra directly if you want him to answer your questions.

Sing
You have an interest in the NPP scholars and Dr Ezra. I don't. So, you interact with them.

If you have specific questions, I can answer them. You don't need to tell me what this Dr. believes and what that Prof. doesn't. If you do, like you tell me about "once saved, always saved", then I have to help you think through the subject.

I'm not calling anyone a fool, but making a general statement that if a man disagrees with what he does even understand, then he is acting foolishly indeed.

So, once saved always saved by WHO, and from WHAT?

If a man can't answer these questions correctly, then what audacity to disagree with what he has not understood? If he can answer correctly, then he will see his obvious error.

The Bible does call a man a fool under various circumstances.

LeongSy
If I go n call everyone a fool, sooner than later I will hv no friends

Sing
Saying "a man who disagrees with what he does not even understand is foolish" is not the same as going around and calling everyone a fool. If you can't distinguish the two, then it would be difficult for you to rightly divide the word of truth.

LeongSy
Your words are too harsh. Honestly, you think that you are better than others

Sing
If they are, my apologies to the offended ones.

A man who denies once saved by God through Jesus Christ is immutably saved from eternal damnation preaches a different gospel; it's no gospel.

What kind of God does such a man believe - the God who has spoken in the Scriptures or a God of his own imagination?

Romans 8:30 KJV — Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

What does this Scripture speak on the subject of OSAS?

Matthew 23:15 KJV — Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Was Jesus harsh in calling the proselyters the children of hell, and their proselytes the same?

Galatians 1:8 KJV — But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Is Apostle Paul harsh here?

LeongSy
Once saved always saved from eternal damnation lo. How many times v hv to go through this?

Sing
Did you apply this truth in instructing your Dr Ezra about his error on OSAS?

LeongSy
Why should a 6 yo Christian teach someone with doctorate? I am not a fool who goes around thinking others are fools

Sing
I'm very sorry to hear your answer. It's God's word, the truth of the inspired Scriptures, not you.

Apollos was far superior to Dr Ezra, but Priscilla was comfortable teaching him what the Apostle Paul had taught her.  😊😊😊.

LeongSy
I don't want to go around correcting everyone by thinking I know better than them. Let God send someone else to correct them, if they need to be corrected. I don't qualify

Sing
James 5:19 ¶Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

You don't need to go around; God, by his kind providence, brings them to you.

If you know the truth from the error on a particular subject, you are qualified and should feel responsible to tell the truth, or you just miss the opportunity of saving someone from the error of his way.. leaving the brother/sister to continue in his error.

Ok. I'm done. No need to stress you.

I'll take a month's leave. Let you interact with others.

The Lord bless you. 

For God hath appointed us to obtain salvation

#Appointed #Appointor #Appointees

Such an appointment presupposes a Divine Appointor, who freely and sovereignly appoints those dead in trespasses and sins and justly deserving of eternal wrath. No, He didn't consult you or ask for your approval or request your acceptance of the appointment. If He had done so, you would still be in your native state of sin and condemnation.

And the appointees are spared that wrath because the Redeemer appointed as their substitute bore and took away that wrath by His righteousness and blood, thus redeeming all them that were appointed unto salvation in Christ Jesus.

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appoint:
2 Determine or decide on
2.1archaic Decree.: ‘such laws are appointed by God’

‘As His sovereignty extends to His worship, so it is His sole prerogative to appoint the laws of His worship, to command of His subjects the way they ought to worship Him.’ See less

The Protestants' Priestcraft?

August 3,  2021

#protestants_priestcraft
https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/pfbid033PXQnLsFmVYg99D4EFi8beBsKoa4pFFbPCSWjKHxkeRpBNNgaFz8SiAzLNfDfjeBl

Many preachers love one, and loath the other! Naturally! But when their hearers also love the same injurious lie, great indeed is the delusion! They foolishly rest their eternal salvation (since regeneration involves one's eternal salvation) in the hands of preachers, and some of them are no more than hirelings!

John 3
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
- [i.e. no exception; every elect is regenerated the exact small way, IMMEDIATELY without means, not mediately with means. ]

Is it hard to understand this? Or is the truth too humbling for the high-minded preachers to swallow?

Supposing you were the dead Lazarus lying in the tomb, would you rather have Christ acting on you DIRECTLY, or would you rather have Him acting on you INDIRECTLY through the activities of His apostles, to bring you out of death?

The former keeps the apostles properly in their place, while the latter deceitfully elevates them to be mediators!

John 11
43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, loose him, and let him go.

It was only AFTER Christ Himself had ALREADY raised Lazarus that He summoned His disciples to do something for living Lazarus, i.e. to set him free from the hindrances of the napkin and graveclothes on him! Preachers remove hindrances from men ALREADY MADE ALIVE by Christ!

While Lazarus was dead, Christ did not ask His disciples to do ANYTHING for him! Christ knew the HARSH realities... the disciples are completely impotent of doing any spiritual good with regard to the dead! He didn't depend on the disciples as the indispensable mediators to get Lazarus out of his deadness!

Christ divinely gives life to dead Lazarus;

the disciples free the living Lazarus from hindrances.

Get the point? That's not too hard to understand, is it?

Or is it an ADDICTION to a form of priestcraft!
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Dhong Ejnar Rue
I love that illustration.
I'm glad that through the patient teaching ministry of the Holy Spirit I have come to the biblical understanding of the doctrine of Eternal salvation, especially on the subject of Regeneration👉Not Calvinistic, nor Arminian.

Bill Taylor
A perfect example of their ungodly error!

What is effectual calling? And what does it involve, and what is its effect?

https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/pfbid02JoxTRR3cYZRLf9YsAofXeWftGKScox15e4qzUXM7Lfp5S1D4vqUoUdPwCxU5jHgrl

I asked this on a Reformed Christian Coffeehouse:

What is effectual calling? And what does it involve, and what is its effect?

Someone gave this answer:
Q. 31. What is effectual calling?
A. Effectual calling is the work of God’s Spirit, whereby, convincing us of our sin and misery, enlightening our minds in the knowledge of Christ, and renewing our wills, he doth persuade and enable us to embrace Jesus Christ, freely offered to us in the gospel. (Westminster Shorter Catechism)

I asked further:
"Who are those that are effectually called, and what was their spiritual state?"

A reformed man gets very uptight with my question... for what reason I know not what - just proud and cocksure, I think.

What do you think of the answer provided by the WSC?

Do you agree with what it says?
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PJ Walters
It is lacking. No, I do not agree.

Effectual calling is the work of God's Spirit being sent from the Father and vitally applying the righteousness and the blood of the Son to an elect.

Yes, effectual calling "renews our wills" and "enables us to embrace Jesus Christ."

No, effectual calling does not "convince us of our sin and misery" or "enlighten our minds in the knowledge of Christ" or "persuade us to embrace Jesus." The gospel call does these things.

Am I lacking in this? Should I give greater specificity?

Sing
Thanks for responding.

Why are reformed folks so reluctant to answer simple questions?
What are they fearful of if they have the truth?

So many [not all!] reformed people only know how to regurgitate what they have been stuffed with...lacking capability to digest what is fed to them. So they get uptight when queried.

What is effectual calling?
- who makes that calling?
- who are called, and what was their spiritual state?
- what is the end of that calling?
- what is the efficacy of that calling?

I fear the WSC's answer is confusing the effectual call and the gospel call, and obviously promoting gospel regeneration! I will come to that!

Adam Wells
Isn't it called the "effectual" call in order to distinguish it from the "non-effectual" call?

Jerry Chapin
"So many [not all!] reformed people only know how to regurgitate what they have been stuffed with...lacking capability to digest what is fed to them. So they get uptight when queried."

Bro. Sing, your statement reminds me of the Mormon 'Messengers' and Jehovah's Witnesses when asked a question...one can almost see the wheels turning...

Sing
Adam Wells, I believe your observation is on target.

God's calling of an elect OUT OF his native state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation is ALWAYS effectual, i.e. always, without exception, accomplishing its end and purpose of the call.

The divine call of an elect out of his native state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation is the direct and immediate work of the Spirit of God, THUS always effectual, accomplishing its end. This divine call is WITHOUT human instrumentality, completely the work of God.

This divine call, which is always effectual, is distinguished from the gospel call which is ministered through the gospel ministry, calling the hearers unto faith in Jesus Christ. The former is prior to the latter, both logically and chronologically. The former makes the latter possible. The former is solely through the free and sovereign activity of the Spirit of God, without means, The latter is through the instrument of the gospel ministry

This gospel call is intended SPECIFICALLY to call those already effectually called by God to believe the truth of their salvation. This call is not always effectual... which explains why many of God's children continue to wallow in lies and fables!

The divine call to grace and salvation, and the gospel call to faith in Jesus Christ are separate and distinct. But the reformed people, typically gospel regenerationists, confuse the two and understand the effectual call as the gospel call made effective to the regeneration of those dead in trespasses and sins by the Holy Spirit.

Distinction is the essence of sound theology.

Mikal Smith
Humbly disagree with the Reformed answer.

Sing
What is your reason for disagreeing?