Things New and Old

Ancient truths revealed in the Scriptures are often forgotten, disbelieved or distorted, and therefore lost in the passage of time. Such ancient truths when rediscovered and relearned are 'new' additions to the treasury of ancient truths.

Christ showed many new things to the disciples, things prophesied by the prophets of old but hijacked and perverted by the elders and their traditions, but which Christ reclaimed and returned to His people.

Many things taught by the Apostles of Christ have been perverted or substituted over the centuries. Such fundamental doctrines like salvation by grace and justification have been hijacked and perverted and repudiated by sincere Christians. These doctrines need to be reclaimed and restored to God's people.

There are things both new and old here. "Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things" 2Ti 2:7.

Monday, August 17, 2026

For I am the LORD, I change not

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not;
therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/pfbid02Be2FcEL4suxzVXXWS6kFMop79FuWftEDUg1H1KK5UD8wFgyqoEsdCaVpjS7eupfl

Leongsy
Sir, when one says God is immutable, what exactly are the immutable qualities?

sing
Immutable means unchangeable.

In the Westminster Shorter Catechism,

Q4. What is God?
A. God is a Spirit, infinite, eternal, and *unchangeable*, in His being, wisdom, power, holiness, justice, goodness, and truth.

John 4:24; Job 11:7-9; Ps. 90:2; Jas. 1:17; Ex. 3:14; Ps. 147:5; Rev. 4:8; 15:4; Ex. 34:6-7.

Please note: What is God, and Who is God are completely different questions!

God is immutable in all His attributes; that which is eternal is immutable, not subject to change.

God's works of eternal salvation for the elect are also immutable - they remain certain forever because God does not change His mind.

Leongsy
So, if God won't change His mind on all that He has determined, why do we pray then?

sing
That's a good question!
What are the "all that He has determined" in your question?

Leongsy
Since God is eternal, I presume that everything under His governance is also eternally determined. If so, there is nothing that we, puny humans can do that wl change the things which He has ordained.

Say, for example: if someone has cancer, is there any hope from praying? If the cancer is because of chastisement, it will go away if we stay away from sin. But if the cancer is not because of chastisement, then it won't go away, so why pray?

sing
Your presumption "everything under His governance is also eternally determined" is false.

God is indeed eternal. He executes all His decrees in the works of
- creation,
- providence, and
- redemption.

In redemption, many things - those related to the *eternal salvation* of His elect - were indeed eternally determined/ordained, i.e. immutably fixed; therefore, they will most certainly come to pass. God, by His infinite wisdom and power, shall cause those things to happen.

Man, God's creatures, has no power or will to change/nullify what God has ordained.

Man is a moral creature made in the image of God and is endowed with free agency. All his acts are of his own free agency; they are not ordained/determined/coerced by God. When a man sins, he sins freely of his own accord; his sin is not determined or ordained by God; therefore, he is without excuse. Otherwise, God would be the author of sin. But God gave the most solemn warning against sin, "thou shalt surely die."

sing
Does cancer fall into the category of things ordained/determined/fixed by God, or Is cancer an effect of man's own carelessness or stupidity in his lifestyle?

God is the God of providence; in His works of governing His creation, He wisely and powerfully governs all His creatures and all their actions for His own glory.

Leongsy
But some children inherited cancer since they were born. So whose fault is it then?

sing
Exodus 34:7 KJV — Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

Leongsy
But this is OT, does it still apply in NT today? What about Ezekiel chp 18?

sing
The same principle applies. The lifestyle of a man will affect his descendants for generations to come unless God, in His kind providence, intervenes.

The descendants have NO RIGHT to blame their situations on their forebears... They can turn away from the ways of the forebears and turn to God for mercy.

The blame game started in Eden, and continues unabated in every generation to this day.

Eze18 is meant to stop that prevailing evil.

Leongsy
How about the many denominations we have nowadays among churches? Did God determine them eternally, or is it again human sinfulness?

sing
Different denominations arise chiefly because of the different understanding of the truth of God, as well as the sectarian nature of many Christians; they must belong to denominational camps.

There are churches that are NOT denominational, i.e. they are not part of a denomination; they are independent churches under the headship of Christ alone. SDC is one amongst them.

Read the high priestly prayer of Christ in John 17, and underline and highlight the phrase "that they may be one, even as we."

If God had eternally determined them (denominations) eternally, then Jesus' repeated requests were contrary to what God has determined.

What prompted you to ask questions along this line?

Is it that if diverse denominations have been determined by God, then going to any, no matter what the beliefs, is fine?

Leongsy
Er, I was just wondering if the Christians going to the different church denominations are actually called by God to do so or it's their own choice.

Coz how could they attend Charismatic churches? Didn't they do some checking before joining a church, to see if its teachings are according to the Bible? Sometimes I wonder if these ppl are wheat or tares?

I mean, how can they simply become a member of any church without checking if the church's teaching is sound? Once a member, it's a member for life, unless they pluck themselves out of that church.

The harm that is inflicted by wrong teachings is devastating. Don't these so called Christians care about what doctrines they subscribe to? Is knowing Jesus the only thing that matters.

Sometimes I go into a church, and I listen to the sermons; I already know that the pastor knows next to nothing. And the worshippers there are equally ignorant. A pastor once told me that I cannot choose the worshippers in the congregation, just like I cannot choose my birth siblings. I don't want to be in that kind of church. It shows that the church is not strong in God's Words coz the worshippers could not care less for God's Words

Sometimes, because the worshippers are naive, the pastor also has no choice but to "lower" his IQ and make his sermons easier to be accepted by the congregation.

sing
Discipleship is a lifelong journey of learning and growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

A whole host of human factors, within and without that of a child of God, affect his learning and growing. There are factors that are conducive and enhance that learning and growth; there are factors that are detrimental and hinder that learning and growth.

Discipleship is a series of choices; it is working out our own salvation with fear and trembling, to do the Father's will.

2Pet 3

17 ¶Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever.

I look into the mirror of God's word for myself, and discharge my duty to the little flock under my care.

1 Timothy 4:16 KJV — Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

I leave others to their own Master.

=======

Perseverance - a condition to get into heaven

"Perseverance in a life of faith and holiness to the end
is a condition for entry into heaven."
I wish you good luck.

https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/pfbid0G8ZLgmYzW39cERmhe1ydUmQSA9Sg61PJ62hfX7NJAq7ZiawoqMaGb6XhcmrpFLB1l

A young man wrote these words:
"Christian life is a constant salvation-race run to the end if we expect to be saved ultimately. Therefore, young Christian, Do not be so proud to think that you cannot fall and perish if you continue sinning. Fear God and keep faith to the very end, and you will be saved (see Matt. 24:13, Heb. 10:26-27, 1 Tim. 4:1)."

Is he stating the gospel truth? Is he confused in some way? Or is it a terrible lie? Give us your considered judgment.
=======

Sing F Lau
Would you like to condition your ultimate (i.e. eternal) salvation upon how well you run your salvation-race (whatever that means)?

Is that good news?

Christopher Cunningham
This is outright Sinless perfectionism, and he fails to make the distinction between sinning deliberately and falling into temptation. Too bad David sinned but repented cause according to him David was lost; same with Peter and his denial of Christ, the same who taught repentance, Acts 2:38-42.

It's Pharisee Doctrine the yoke of bondage going back to law when scripture says the law points to sin as a teaching tool. Instead he thinks the law and gospel are the same thing this is legalism.

Jonah 2:9 Salvation is of the Lord. This refutes his theory in both instances, verses 8 and 9 combined.

Hebrews 10:26-27 makes a distinction between a weak man growing in grace and a man who outright makes himself an enemy of God. We that are growing in grace, hating sin, are not enemies; the carnal Christian who shows no sign of repentance is the enemy. Remember John's epistle in Chapter 2:19.

And finally, Matthew 24:13 says nothing about losing salvation; rather, saints will endure, that is true, but by what means? The will of man? Or the work of the spirit Ezekiel 36:25-26, 18:21-31, and Phil 1.

Sing F Lau
"Christian life is a constant salvation-race run to the end if we expect to be saved ultimately"
========

Question 1:
If a man had not been given eternal salvation by the free grace of God, i.e. effectually called from his native state of sin and death, could he even run in the so-called salvation-race?

Question 2:
What is the salvation involved in the salvation-race run? What kind of salvation does his running secure for him?

Question 3:
Is your ultimate salvation dependent upon your running well to the end?
Is your expectation to be saved ultimately dependent or conditioned upon your running to the end?

Well, I sure hope you run well enough to save yourself ultimately!

Christopher Cunningham

1. No, because the will of man will fail every time his natural state only allows him to rebel. 1st Samuel 15:3 Romans 8:7 and 1:21-23

2. The salvation involved in the race is the work of the holy spirit by calling to election: Romans 9; John 37:-44. Regeneration by the holy spirit ezekiel 36;25-26 18:21-31; Phil 1:6. Justification by Christ through the atonement Hebrews 9:22; Leviticus 17:11; and sanctification: Phil 1:6; Galatians 5:22-27.

It secures our salvation and blessings of God. Christ said his sheep will not be cast out john 6 and 10 but called back, seeking that which is lost.

It is dependent on God's work: Proverbs 16:33; Jonah 2:9; Romans 9:21, not what we do. Our faith and work are a byproduct of the natural man, which must be repented of when receiving the new nature.

Brendan Burnett
PEOPLE, that post put up by Mr Lau is something I wrote, and for your sake I wish he mentioned my name. Go onto my page and have a look at my posting; it is worded just as Mr Lau so accurately quoted.

Mr Lau also sent me a message saying that he would do this, so this is fine. However, I therefore wrote back this message to him in my own defence, for he misconstrued my meaning and distorted the belief. Here is my message to Mr Lau, with some added clarifications for your sake:

~~~~~~~~~~~

Mr Lau, the doctrine of Eternal Security as commonly taught is one of the most unbiblical doctrines which I have ever encountered. By Conditional Security, I do not understand it to mean that we are saved or kept by good works, which you wrongly attribute to my belief. Rather, I mean that it is believers alone who remain in Christ, the Vine (Jn. 151-17, Rom. 11:11-21) and that if believers should spurn the Holy Ghost in their lives, they will be cut off from the Vine (Rom. 11:11-21, Heb. 10:19-39). Salvation is by grace through faith, apart from works (Eph. 2:8-10), yet if believers resist the Holy Spirit in their lives continually, they break faith, abandon the faith (1 Tim 4:1) and shipwreck their floating vessel of faith (1 Tim 1:18-20). This apostasy will increase to the very end of time in the Eschaton (Jude 1:5-6, 2 Thess. 2:3 NASB). Christ taught that we must persevere in faith to the end for final salvation (Matt. 24:13). For we have been saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved, and it is not the case that once we are saved we will always be saved, or that we have eternal security, or that the perseverance of the saints is inevitable. Indeed, there are those from the Christian faith who have fallen away, like Hymaneus and Alexander (1 Tim 1:20), various women (1 Tim 5:15), the covetous (1 Tim 6:10) and gossips from the Church (1 Tim. 4:21).

So I do not agree with your rendition, Mr Lau, and I would kindly ask you to respect my opinion, and not accuse me of lying, of denying the Gospel which I love, or that I believe in works salvation, for that is completely ignorant of the truth.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Now, it seems very evident to me that the description I have given is anything but any heresy (particularly it is not Perfectionism), and it has also never been condemned by any credible Church council of any age of the Church. Additionally, it appears to be virtually the unanimous opinion of the early church and of the majority of Christian believers. Therefore there seems no good reason to condemn what I have said, and indeed it is also the case that he who submits to Scripture and understands it should eventually reach this opinion.

Additionally, Christians, I would ask you all in good faith and charity to quit with the silly, callous remarks of me "lying" and me being "legalistic." In the words of John Wesley, if from my scriptural deduction you believe I am teaching a works-based Gospel, then let the Gospel be works-based!! He was speaking in exasperated jest of course.

It's just so silly. It's like reading 1 Tim. 4:7-8 and saying, "Oh how dare you Paul! You're taking all the effort for your own salvation! Surely, you're trusting in your own works Paul! YOU ran the race? YOU fought the fight? YOU finished the course?! Get a grip, Paul, you Pharisaical legalistic!"

How do you think Paul would have reacted to that? Stop with the nonesense, Christians.

Christopher Cunningham
I have respect for wesley he and whitefield disagreed but never was heretic thrown around in such a manner. How knows brendan you may come to these doctrines later on and change your view. Paul charged timothy to be humble in his battle for truth 1st Timothy 1:18.

I take it there is missing text from the conversation.

Sing F Lau
Brendan, you are shameless.
Paste here what I wrote initially that you deleted.
Cease raving here if you can't do that! You hear?

Christopher Cunningham
I would not call it nonsense but a rebuke and correction 2nd Timothy 3:16-17 its not hatretd or slander to do such.

Brendan Burnett
Sir, I respect your sentiments and the fact that your disagreement with me is profound. However, surely it is not Christian behavior to speak to another Christian just as you have written to me. Behold:

"But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect..." (1 Pet. 3:15).

GENTLENESS and RESPECT, sir. I DO seek to do this. I cannot return your words to you which you had posted on my wall, for I deleted your post: I did not copy text--and that was hours ago. I deleted them becasue it brought a discussion which was not intended on a post of edification. I apologise if this has upset you, but I did not feel it was the appropriate forum for such a discussion. Peace.

Sing F Lau
Brendan, you tend to LIE by speaking half truth!

You didn't mention that you just deleted what I have written... charging me with Calvinism and other lame excuses..

I wrote this in reply...

=====

Brendan, thanks for your SHAMEFUL explanation.

I care NOTHING for Calvinism, or ARMINIANISM.

I do care for the truth of the gospel... the GOOD NEWS.

Your post DENIES the good news of God's work in securing eternal salvation. You promote eternal salvation based on your effort of running the salvation-race!

Perseverance has nothing to do you your eternal salvation.

Perseverance has to do with your WELL-BEING.

That is a biblical truth. But you are promoting a lie!

Please return to me what I have posted... I will post it on my wall to expose that it is a LIE that denies the gospel.

Thanks.

=====

So post here what you deleted... and it will be known that your statements promote LIES and repudiate the gospel of Christ.

Brendan Burnett
Hopefully, Mr Lau, you can see from my initial three postings above that I do not intend to make this a war, but simply to defend my own sentiments and integrity. I am not a liar, and God's Spirit bears witness with my spirit that I am a child of God. Therefore as a child of God, I implore you to correct your speech. It is not said in love.

Mr Lau, I CANNOT return your words to you, for I deleted a post. I am not sure how to undo this, and if you can direct me how to, then I will attempt to, and will return them. As for now, I am not sure there is any way of doing that.

Christopher Cunningham
Galatians 1:8-9 ephesians 2:8-11 come to mind.

Apart from Christ alone as opposed to our so called freewill no God forbid.

Sing F Lau
Brendan, what did Apostle Paul say to those who promote ANOTHER gospel?

You are most certainly promoting eternal salvation conditioned upon your running the salvation-race to the end... IF IF IF words have any meaning left!

Can those who do not possess eternal salvation by God's free grace to begin with, even run in your 'salvation-race'!!!

Brendan Burnett
Sir, salvation is by grace through faith, apart from works, so that no man may boast. For we are God's workmanship created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which He has prepared beforehand, that we would walk in them. (Eph. 2:8-10).

>>I do not believe that we are saved or justified by good works, but that the Holy Spirit by His grace alone effects salvation is us.<<

But I do not believe that God chooses to save unbelievers, such that if a believer should choose to not believe, He would be cut off from Christ. I implore anyone to go and investigate for themselves those verses which I have brought up, study God's word, submit to it, and come to a greater knowledge of what is true, so that you may serve the LORD with fear and trembling:

Jn. 15:1-17

Rom. 11:11-21

Heb. 10:19-39

Heb. 6:4-6

1 Tim 4:1

1 Tim 1:18-20

Jude 1:5-6

2 Thess. 2:3 (NASB)

Matt. 24:13

1 Tim 1:20

1 Tim 5:15

1 Tim 6:10, 21.

These are just a sampling, friends. God bless you all.

Sing F Lau
Brendan, you are just plain confused.

And this is where the problem lies!

You are just plain ignorant of the distinction between eternal salvation by God's free and sovereign grace... which enables a child of God to work out his own temporal salvation.

There is a salvation which is finished by the work of Christ...

And there is a salvation which you must work out for yourself... by your obedience to the Father's will. If you don't do it, you will mess up your redeemed life big time.

Because of your ignorance or rejection of this biblical distinction, you remain confused.

You know, I have no respect for a man who deletes what others say just because he disagrees. And you are one such.

Sing F Lau
Your shibboleth... "salvation is by grace through faith, apart from works" - through WHOSE FAITH... apart from WHOSE WORK?

Christopher Cunningham
Ephesians 2:10: we are the workmanship of Christ not ourselves.

Brendan Burnett
I have had enough of your plain insults, Mr Sing F. Lau. I am leaving this conversation.

But before I go, I would implore us all, Christian brethren: It is good to disagree and be able to have a healthy discussion. But to behave like Mr Lau has (which I am sure is out of character for him) is nothing but an absolute disgrace. Christ said that it is by loving each other that we prove ourselves to be His disciples (Jn. 13:35), the Evangelist echoes the same (1 Jn. 4:20), and the Apostle says that if we are to give a defense for truth, we are to give it with gentleness and respect (1 Pet. 3:15). I have not seen any of these in the character, mode or form of Mr Lau's comments. Please Christians, be godly; love Christ and live like Him, especially among the assembly of the faithful.

God bless you all in the unity of the fellowship of the Holy Spirit.

Sing F Lau
Brendan... you are not capable of healthy discussion.

You DELETE my first comment that exposes the LIES of your initial statements. That's what annoyed me!

You did not have the courtesy to reply... much less discuss!

Brendan, don't hide behind those platitudes.

Deal with the errors of your beliefs...

Sing F Lau
Brendan @ "Christian life is a constant salvation-race run to the end if we expect to be saved ultimately. Therefore, young Christian, Do not be so proud to think that you cannot fall and perish if you continue sinning. Fear God and keep faith to the very end, and you will be saved (see Matt. 24:13, Heb. 10:26-27, 1 Tim. 4:1)."
=============

Cunningham @ "This is outright Sinless perfectionism, and he fails to make the distinction between sinning deliberately and falling into temptation. Too bad David sinned but repented cause according to him David was lost; same with Peter and his denial of Christ, the same who taught repentance, Acts 2:38-42.

Christopher, please tell us how did you squeeze out 'sinless perfectionism' from what Brendan said? I am a little puzzled.

What is the significance and implication of the distinction between deliberate sin and being tempted into sin?

Did David sin deliberately, or was he tempted to sin?

Thanks

Christopher Cunningham
I drew sinless perfectionism by the continuation of the sins statement, as if to hint that make sure we are in the faith, we in some sense must have moral perfection; otherwise its as if making errors and mistakes will cost our salvation. Now, if he speaks in the sense of habitual sense, then I agree.

Christopher Cunningham
Brendan has been studying the works of Pelagian thats how i caught it if he indeed wrote it.

Sing F Lau
Brendan, no one disputes your standing as a child of God. I am only dealing with your statements that your ultimate salvation is conditioned on your running the salvation-race to the end, nothing more and nothing less.

It is out of love for you as a brother in Christ that I took the pain to explain to the errors of your notions. I want to convert you from the errors of your way.

God's children can embrace grievous errors! The gospel ministry is for their sound doctrine, correction, reproof and training in righteousness.

James 5:
19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Friday, August 14, 2026

A Biblicist who is an Arminian

"We are not Calvinists, nor Arminians;
but Biblicists, people who believe in the bible."
But he is unaware that he is a thorough Arminian.

Apr 23, 2008, 10:34 AM

Sing wrote to Pastor We

Hello Pastor We,
I am looking for a good church for my son who is going to NUS soon, hopefully to study...

I checked the web for a conservative Baptist church... and ended up with two choices out of all that I checked and scrutinised.

I am glad you use the KJV. Does your church have a fuller Doctrinal Statement? On the surface, I can agree with much of what they say. I do consider pre-millennialism an error. The simple scheme of things in the Bible is that the second coming of Christ is accompanied by the general resurrection, the great judgment, and the eternal state of bliss and glory.

Could you please tell me a little more about X-BC?

I am not looking for a big church. A faithful biblical church does not usually attract sheep, so I avoid big churches. I desire to look for a church where the Bible is preached FAITHFULLY, for that's the CHIEF cure appointed by God for all the evils both in the church and in the world - "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine." 2Tim 3:16-4:2.

There are many teachers of falsehood around, and they have many followers, 2Pet 2:1ff.

I don't mind a small church where the Bible is faithfully preached. I hope you don't mind me asking some simple questions to get an idea in my own mind about the matter. These are honest questions, needing simple answers. I would appreciate plain honest answers.

1. Does a person believe in order to get eternal life, or a person believe because he has been given eternal life (i.e. regenerated by the Spirit of God)?

2. Are repentance and faith the effects of eternal salvation by God's free grace, or the means to obtain eternal salvation from God?

3. Is "the just shall live by faith" a statement of fact about the just, i.e. the justified ones shall act in certain way; OR is it a statement of offer, i.e. what the condemned must do in order to be justified?

4. Is "whoever believes has eternal life' a statement of fact about the believing one or is it a statement of offer, i.e. what the spiritually dead must do in order to have eternal life?

I would really appreciate your answers to the above question. They will give me an idea how faithfully the Bible is preached.

Thank you.

In Christ Jesus,

sing
-------

Apr 23, 2008, 1:39 PM
Pastor We wrote

Dear sing

Thanks for your interest in having your son coming by to our church. No problem with those questions. We live in a day where falsehood is prevalent and it is always better to err on the safe side.

We believe there is a Christ coming for His saints (the rapture and then the tribulation ); and a Christ coming with His saints ( after the tribulation, just before the Millennium ).

<Could you please tell me a little more about X-BC?

We are an Independent Baptist Church, not associated with any Mission Board; we believe in the local church, no universal church; believing in believer's baptism, no infant baptism; non-ecumenical; non-charismatics; presently support some 60 baptist missionaries; having 3 of our own out in the fields; believing in the succession of Christ's churches throughout all ages; believing that baptist churches are from this lineage of churches or baptist churches have existed from the time of Christ; et al.

The answer to your questions is that we are not Calvinists; nor Arminians; but biblicists, people who believe in the bible. We believe that there is the election of God as well as the free will of man. It is not our duty to reconcile them, and most of the problems came about when people tried to reconcile them. Only God knows of what criteria in which He 'elects'... perhaps, on the basis of the possibility or potential of the saved - like someone choosing football players to represent a school; he chooses the best. But the 'best' in the eyes of God may not be the 'best' in our eyes. God has His own 'criteria', and God sees the hearts.

We do our best to faithfully preach the Word of God.

God bless

Pastor We

--------

Apr 23, 2008, 3:45 PM
sing wrote

Pastor We,
Thank you for your prompt reply.

<<We are an Independent Baptist Church, not associated with any Mission Board; we believe in the local church, no universal church; believing in believer's baptism, no infant baptism; non-ecumenical; non-charismatics; presently support some 60 baptist missionaries; having 3 of our own out in the fields; believing in the succession of Christ's churches throughout all ages; believing that baptist churches are from this lineage of churches or baptist churches have existed from the time of Christ; et al.>>

I am very pleased to read the above paragraph.

<<"The answer to your questions is that we are not Calvinists; nor Arminians; but biblicists, people who believe in the bible. We believe that there is the election of God as well as the free will of man. It is not our duty to reconcile them, and most of the problems came about when people tried to reconcile them. Only God knows of what criteria in which He 'elects'... perhaps, on the basis of the possibility or potential of the saved - like someone choosing football players to represent a school; he chooses the best. But the 'best' in the eyes of God may not be the 'best' in our eyes. God has His own 'criteria' and God sees the hearts.">>

I am not at all interested whether X-BC is Calvinistic or Arminian. I am neither. I am very weary of Calvinists! Actually, labels are not helpful. Calvinists are such a mixed breed too. So are the Arminians.

I believe the will of a natural man is determined by his nature (dead in trespasses and sins; thus incapable of any spiritual acts UNTIL quickened to spiritual life).

I don't believe there is any contradiction in all that God has revealed. There is absolutely no need for reconciliation. To raise reconciliation presupposes contradiction, and that's a tacit admission that there are contradictions in God's inspired Scriptures. I know you don't mean that at all. I am indicating that words have necessary implications.

I believe God has told us the basis of His electing sinner:
- "For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."
- It is most certainly not "on the basis of the possibility or potential of the saved." - "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth... There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one....."

I would really appreciate it because the question deals with fundamental issues of salvation.

As a biblicist, a man who believes in the Bible, could you please tell me what the Bible's answer is to my simple questions? If you think the Bible has no answer to my questions, then also indicate so. I would be very grateful. If my questions are not clear, please indicate, and I will elaborate. I just wish to know what a biblicist's answers to these questions would be.

1. Does a person believe in order to get eternal life, or does a person believe because he has been given eternal life (i.e. regenerated by the Spirit of God)?

2. Are repentance and faith the effects of eternal salvation by God's free grace, or the means to obtain eternal salvation from God?

4. Is "whoever believes has eternal life' a statement of fact about the believing one or is it a statement of offer, i.e. what the spiritually dead must do in order to have eternal life?

5. When Christ says, "Except a man be born again, he cannot see... he cannot enter..." - is He saying that regeneration must precede the activities of 'seeing' and 'entering', OR is He saying that 'seeing' and 'entering' is in order to be born again?

Just indicate what you believe, so that I may know what you believe what the Bible teach on these basic matters.

Thank you very much.

sing

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Apr 23, 2008, 4:05 PM
Pastor We replied:

Sing
Election is not based on God's 'whims and fancies':

1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

There are some criteria of God known only to Him in His electing process.
[sing: One criterion is declared to us in the passage you quoted above: "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father." Other criteria are clearly stated in other scriptures. So, they are NOT only known to God; they are revealed...]

<1. Does a person believe in order to get eternal life, or a person believe because he has been given eternal life (i.e. regenerated by the Spirit of God)?

What you are asking is a Calvinistic question: does regeneration precede salvation, or does salvation precede regeneration? I believe in the latter.

<2. Are repentance and faith the effects of eternal salvation by God's free grace, or the means to obtain eternal salvation from God?

Same as above.

<3. Is "the just shall live by faith" a statement of fact about the just, i.e. the justified ones shall act in a certain way; OR is it a statement of offer, i.e. what the condemned must do in order to be justified?

Same as above

<4. Is "whoever believes has eternal life' a statement of fact about the believing one or is it a statement of offer, i.e. what the spiritually dead must do in order to have eternal life?

Same as above... I hold on to ALL the second statement.

<5. When Christ says, "Except a man be born again, he cannot see... he cannot enter..." - is He saying that regeneration must precede the activities of 'seeing' and 'entering', OR is He saying that 'seeing' and 'entering' is in order to be born again?

Same as above.

We are not Reformed Baptists.

Pastor We

---------

Apr 23, 2008, 7:04 PM
sing wrote

Pastor We,
Thank you. I want to be sure. Please affirm if I understand you correctly.

After this, I won't ask any more questions. Then I will forward the mail to Josiah Lau.

1. Does a person believe in order to get eternal life, or does a person believe because he has been given eternal life (i.e. regenerated by the Spirit of God)?

<What you are asking is a Calvinistic question: does regeneration precede salvation or does salvation precede regeneration? I believe in the latter.

- I asked whether regeneration precedes BELIEVING or believing precedes REGENERATION. I didn't mention a word about salvation. I think you misunderstand my question, unless you equate believing with 'salvation.'

- There are two parts in the question. I wonder which part is Calvinistic, and which part is not? I am asking a very simple question based on John 3:3-6. I am not interested in Calvinism. I oppose some of its heretical tenets.

- You might have a preconceived idea of where I am coming from.

The latter of the above question is: a person believes because he has been given eternal life (i.e. regenerated by the Spirit of God). Do you believe this part? Is this part Calvinistic?

2. Are repentance and faith the effects of eternal salvation by God's free grace, or the means to obtain eternal salvation from God?

- The latter of the above question is: repentance and faith are means to obtain eternal salvation from God. Do you believe this part?

- The latter of the above question is: "the just shall live by faith" is a statement of offer, i.e. what the condemned must do in order to be justified.

- How would you understand a statement like, "the condemned who will believe shall be justified"? Do you believe this as the truth taught by the Bible?

4. Is "whoever believes has eternal life' a statement of fact about the believing one or is it a statement of offer, i.e. what the spiritually dead must do in order to have eternal life?

<Same as above... I hold on to ALL the second statement.

- The latter of the above question is: 'whoever believes has eternal life' means what the spiritually dead must do in order to have eternal life.

- How would you understand a statement like, "the dead who will believe shall have eternal life"? Do you believe this as the truth taught by the Bible?

- The latter of the above question is: "Except a man be born again, he cannot see... he cannot enter..." means He is saying that 'seeing' and 'entering' is in order to be born again.

- How would you understand a statement like: "Except a man sees and enters, he cannot be born again"? Do you believe this as the truth taught by the Bible?

Hello, I am not looking for a RB church. And I am mighty glad you are not!

I am looking for a church that teaches the Bible faithfully.

I know what the RBs believe.

Thanks for your patience.

If you are irritated by my simple and genuine inquiry, I apologise

In Christ,
sing

============

Apr 24, 2008, 2:09 PM
Pastor We wrote

Dear sing,
Sorry, if I sound impatient. I didn't mean it that way. But the questions you asked are the usual questions that the Calvinists will ask, and the verses you quoted are the same ones the Calvinists will quote to support the belief that God elects without merits and based on His whims and fancies. The problem with writing is that we often end up with reading too much into it. Please accept my apologies if I sound impatient with your questioning. I believe you asked in all sincerity. It might be better if you call me to talk; it will surely leave out a lot of 'reading too much', both ways, for you and for me.

<- I asked whether regeneration precedes BELIEVING or believing precedes REGENERATION. I didn't mention a word about salvation. I think you misunderstand my question, unless you equate believing as 'salvation.'>

The latter of the above question is: a person believes because he has been given eternal life (i.e. regenerated by the Spirit of God). You believe this part? Is this part calvinistic?

This part is Calvinistic - because the logic is that he has to be 'regenerated first' or 'saved first' or 'elected before the foundation of the world' before he can believe. If he is not regenerated or saved first, he can't possibly believe because he is 'dead in sins'. And 'believing' has to logically lead one to salvation.

If one is 'regenerated first', he is already saved; so why the need to 'believe and be saved'? Regeneration is the same as 'salvation', that is the usual definition.

Our position is that believing precedes regeneration or believing leads to regeneration and not the other way around - 'And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." ( Acts 16:30-31 )

2. Are repentance and faith the effects of eternal salvation by God's free grace, or the means to obtain eternal salvation from God?

Same as above.

- The latter of the above question is: repentance and faith are means to obtain eternal salvation from God. You believe this part?

Yes, repentance and faith are the means to obtain eternal salvation from God.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Same as above

- The latter of the above question is: "the just shall live by faith" is a statement of offer, i.e. what the condemned must do in order to be justified.

- How would you understand a statement like, "the condemned who will believe shall be justified"? Do you believe this as the truth taught by the Bible?

Yes, we believe the condemned who believe shall be justified.

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. - Rom 4:2-7

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The verse you quoted in context has to do with the way a sinner is to be saved, that is, by faith:

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. - Rom 1:16-17

4. Is "whoever believes has eternal life' a statement of fact about the believing one, or is it a statement of offer, i.e. what the spiritually dead must do in order to have eternal life?

- The latter of the above question is: "Except a man be born again, he cannot see... he cannot enter..." means He saying that 'seeing' and 'entering' is in order to be born again.

- How would you understand a statement like: "Except a man sees and enters, he cannot be born again"? Do you believe this as the truth taught by the Bible?

Same as above... I hold on to ALL the second statement.

- The latter of the above question is: 'whoever believes has eternal life' means what the spiritually dead must do in order to have eternal life.

- How would you understand a statement like, "the dead who will believe shall have eternal life"? Do you believe this as the truth taught by the Bible?

Your rephrasing means the same thing if you look at it carefully. But your previous question indicates 2 different thoughts: The 'saved ones' will believe or believing it will lead one to salvation. We believe in the latter.

Same as above.

- The latter of the above question is: "Except a man be born again, he cannot see... he cannot enter..." means He saying that 'seeing' and 'entering' is in order to be born again.

- How would you understand a statement like: "Except a man sees and enters, he cannot be born again"? Do you believe this as the truth taught by the Bible?

We believe that it is through being 'born again', that is by repenting and believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, that one can then 'see' and one can then 'enter into the kingdom of God.'

Objectively, all the questions you have asked me revolve around this one prevailing thought: The predestinated 'saved ones' will eventually believe, or one needs to believe in order to be saved.

This will eventually lead to the issue of 'total inability' or 'total depravity'. One, where the sinner is so dead he is unable to repent and be saved; and the other, he is so depraved that no matter how much good he does, he cannot save himself, or salvation by works won't work.

Once again, my brief reply was because I see the whole thing is constantly revolving around the one same thought and to allay your apprehension, I thought it good to let you know that we are not Reformed Baptists; no intention to sound offensive.

God bless

pastor wee----------

Apr 24, 2008, 2:59 PM
sing wrote

Pastor We,

Thank you for your kind reply.

I do appreciate it.

I read from the Bible that God's elect to saved justly condemned sinners without merits in the condemned sinners whatsoever. There is no merit in the justly condemned whatsoever. That is why I believe that salvation is by the free grace of God. He who would attribute whims and fancies to God in any of His actions is much worse than a fool.

I am in Penang, so I don't think I will call you.

Should the Lord bring me to Singapore, I might just drop by to see you.

I am too logical to accept any contradictions, real or apparent, in the Holy Scriptures. My basic premise is that God's inspired word is absolutely harmonious and free from inconsistencies and contradictions. Inconsistencies, real or apparent, are to be attributed to man wrongly dividing the word of truth.

sing

====

Apr 24, 2008, 3:09 PM
Pastor We wrote:

You are welcome,

God bless.

Thursday, August 13, 2026

Those that oppose themselves

Jul 30, 2008, 12:02 AM

to Pb/Mb Yahoo group

Sister Cherry inquired of Bill Vangeese:

1. There is only one way to eternal salvation, and that is Jesus Christ.
2. The preacher must preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
3. The individual must hear the preached Gospel of Jesus Christ.
4. The individual must accept the preached Gospel of Jesus Christ.
5. The individual must make a decision to accept Christ as his personal saviour.
6. The individual is then regenerated in Christ.

Are the six steps I have listed above a fair summary of your belief?

-----

Bill Vangeese replied with a resounding 'Yes'.

-----

Sing
Brother Bill,

Your 'yes' necessarily implies that you believe these:

1. That a natural man, i.e. UN-regenerated:
- still dead in trespasses and sins (Eph 2:1),
- in enmity against God (Roman 8:7),
- unable to discern spiritual things (1Cor 2:14),
- to whom the gospel is foolishness (1Cor 1:18,2:24),
- a child of disobedience (Eph 2:2) ... etc. etc... is able to hear the preached word, accept the preached word, and make a decision for Christ as personal Saviour, who then responded to accept him, and regenerated him.

This is contrary to all common sense, logic, and divine revelation.

2. That eternal salvation is by the obedience of at least THREE persons:
- Jesus Christ's obedience,
- the preacher's obedience to preach (and may be the missionary board to send!),
- the hearer's obedience to hear, to believe, and to accept Jesus.

- However, Scripture declares that eternal salvation is by the obedience of ONE... O... N... E... ONE.

Romans 5:19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

- Let God be true but every man a liar.

3. That eternal salvation is ultimately conditioned upon the cooperation of man, and is no longer by God's free and sovereign grace. Some seem to claim the wind is impotent to blow unless and until they are standing below the tree!

- They say, where there is no preacher, there would be no eternal salvation for anyone. They see preachers as hawkers of eternal salvation, instead of the preachers of good news, news of the salvation that has taken place, already applied by the free and sovereign grace of God upon sinners who had been dead in trespasses and sins. What happened in those long ages before the gospel of Jesus Christ was even revealed, much less proclaimed by preachers?

How was Noah saved? And Abraham? And Melchizedek? Who hawked the eternal
salvation to them?

I am a father of 4... no maid or servant assisted me when I fathered
each of them. But after each life was conceived, many assisted in the
WELL-BEING of each child. None assisted in bringing each life into BEING.

EVEN SO, in the spiritual realm.

Gospel preaching has relevant to God's children alone... those ALREADY regenerated by the Spirit of God, and needed to be instructed in the truth concerning the facts of their eternal salvation by God's free and sovereign grace. They need to be converted to the truth of their eternal salvation, which is already a fact.

Just my sandy opinion from the south seas,
sing

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Jul 30, 2008, 6:44 AM

Stephen Conte
All very good, brother Sing, especially this part:
"However, Scripture declares that eternal salvation is by the obedience of ONE... O... N... E... ONE.
Ro 5:19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Highly appropriate and truly insightful, thank the Lord.

Ever,
Stephen Conte