"Today is the THIRD DAY since these things were done." Luke 24:21

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"... today is the third day SINCE..."

Can you count like the two villagers?

That Sunday morning, two men left Jerusalem and were on their way back to their home in Emmaus. They were speaking of the things that had happened few days before, i.e. the events surrounding the judgment and crucifixion of Christ.

They said, "But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the THIRD DAY SINCE these things were done."  Luke 24:21 

By Sunday, it was *the THIRD day SINCE* those things had happened. 

Let's grant that the two men can at least count up to 3 as well as counting them backward. Also those words were uttered in the presence of the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ; they were received and not corrected; thus it is reasonable to assume them to be accurate.  

Questions
- On which day did those things happen?
- On which night was Jesus arrested?
- The early morning of which day did the hastily convened kangaroo court take place?
- Which day was Christ crucified?

Some questions to ask at this time of year when bunnies start laying colourful eggs in the name of remembering Christ.

This village boy can understand their words. To them, those things happened on Thursday. Jesus was arrested on Wednesday night.

Some insist that the phrase "three days and three nights" must be exactly 72hrs and no less. Go figure. Is that how words of common daily usage are to be understood? Do 2plus 12hr-day and 3 12hr-night constitute the phrase 3days and 3 nights? Let's say, if Jesus had wanted to say 68 hours, how should he have expressed himself if not the common usage of "three days and three nights? 

ALSO.... the first 12-hr DAY of the Jewish week is Sunday, 6am-6pm. Don't jump, let me finish! Saturday 6pm - Sunday 6am is the FIRST 12-hr NIGHT of the Jewish week.

Gen 1:5,8,13,19,23,31

"...And the evening and the morning were the first/second/third/fourth/fifth/sixth day."

A Jewish day consisted of 12hr evening (night) and 12hr morning (day).

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."

 - Leo Tolstoy –

"But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant." - Apostle Paul, a servant of Christ.
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Rod Wilson
🙂 Amen.
There were two sabbaths in that week. A high or special sabbath, and the weekly sabbath.

John 19:31 (KJV) - "The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐬𝐚𝐛𝐛𝐚𝐭𝐡 𝐝𝐚𝐲 𝐰𝐚𝐬 𝐚𝐧 𝐡𝐢𝐠𝐡 𝐝𝐚𝐲,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away."

However, there was a normal working day in between the two sabbaths. The women, who followed Jesus, rested the high Sabbath day of the Passover, before buying and preparing their spices:

Mark 16:1 (KJV) - "And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him."

They bought and prepared their spices on the regular workday between the two Sabbaths days.

Luke 23:55-56 (KJV) - "And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment."

And then the rested, during the weekly Sabbath day, after buying and preparing their spices the previous workday.

Jesus rose from the dead, as the weekly Sabbath ended – three days and three nights after burial – as prophesied:

Matthew 12:39-40 (KJV) - "But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."
Wednesday: Jesus buried before 6pm.
Thursday: High sabbath.
Friday: Women bought and prepared spices.
Saturday: Weekly sabbath day, and women rested. After 6pm Jesus rose.
Sunday: Early in the morning, women find tomb empty.

Amen.

[Friday: Women bought and prepared spices: you invented this EXTRA day out of thin air just to accommodate the women buying the sweet spices!!! sing]

Sing F Lau
Rod Wilson: Such a scheme would require "to day is the FOURTH day since these things were done" by Sunday late afternoon.

Either the two men from Emmaus were wrong or you are wrong; both can't be correct. I think this is a reasonable conclusion.

Wed 6pm - Thu 6pm : the PASSOVER DAY  
 -  Jesus ate the passover meal with the disciples... later in the night he was arrested. Later on Thu afternoon Jesus was crucified, 
- PART of 1st 12hr day
Thu 6pm - Fri 6pm : the High Sabbath Day.
- 1st 12hr night and 2nd 12hr day
Fri 6pm - Sat 6pm : the weekly sabbath day
- 2nd 12hr night and 3rd 12hr day
Sat 6pm - Sun 6pm : the first 24hr day of the week
Sat 6pm - Sun 6am : the first 12-hr night of the week
- 3rd 12hr day and 3rd 12hr night. 2+ 12hr days and 3 12hr nights have PASSED. 
Sun 6am - Sun 6pm : the first 12-hr day of the week.
Jesus rose early on Sunday morning, after the THIRD night (Sat 6pm - Sun 6am) ended. Jesus repeatedly said, It is "three days and three nights."

Your scheme is "three nights and three days! 

On Thursday evening (still part of the Passover day), after the women returned from the burial scene, they PREPARED spices and ointments. The next day was the high sabbath. This was followed by the weekly sabbath. 

Luke 23:55-56 (KJV) - "And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. And they returned, and PREPARED spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment."

After the weekly sabbath ended on Saturday 6pm, the beginning of the first 12-hr night of the first 24-hr day of the week, the women BOUGHT sweet spices. 

Mark 16:1 (KJV) - "And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had BOUGHT sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him."

"HAD BOUGHT" - the past perfect tense indicates the earlier of the two past events that are connected: the act of buying the sweet spices is EARLIER than the act of coming to the tomb to anoint Jesus. 

Too many cannot distinguish "prepared spices and ointments" and "bought sweet spices." They are two distinct events, and different occasions. 

Rod Wilson
🙂 Thank you, brother Sing.

Clearly some are wrong. Were the women wrong to be purchasing and preparing herbs on a sabbath day, or, as you say, the two men were wrong.

Your Post also points out, that Jesus did not correct the two men. However, if Jesus prophesied "three days and three nights", I would be inclined to believe Him.

The important matter is, not so much the day of His death, but His resurrection from the dead. Jesus answered the two men:

Luke 24:25-27 (KJV) - "Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and 𝐭𝐨 𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐞𝐫 𝐢𝐧𝐭𝐨 𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐠𝐥𝐨𝐫𝐲? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself."

Amen.

Sing F Lau
Rod Wilson,  Luke 23:55-56 (KJV) 'And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulcher, and how his body was laid. And they returned [from the burial], and prepared spices and ointments, and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.'

There was no buying. 

Mark 16:1 (KJV) - "And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him."

There was buying here but ONLY when "... the sabbath was past... HAD BOUGHT..."

The past perfect "HAD bought" indicates that the buying took place after the passing of the sabbath, after Sat 6pm BUT before going to the tomb early in the morning. 

The religious authorities requested the tomb be guarded on the Saturday night (Sat 6pm -Sun 6am.) They understood from Jesus' words of "three days and three nights" that He would rise AFTER the third night, i.e. AFTER the night of Sat 6pm-Sun 6am. To place the guards AFTER Jesus had already risen would make the religious leaders to be idiots who cannot count also. 

Your scheme says Jesus rose shortly after Saturday at 6pm.

I have heard it before. A pastor-friend in Greenville, SC, believes the same.

Christ came to seek and to save that which was lost.

May 16, 2013

Luke 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Who are the lost?

"The lost" presupposes ownership. Anything that does not have an owner can't possibly be said to be lost.

The lost refer to those who belong to Christ.
- They are Christ's possession, given to Him by God;|
- They are Christ's possession, purchased and redeemed by Him;
- They are Christ's possession, they are personally united to Christ at their effectual call to grace and salvation by God's free grace while dead in their native state of sin and death.

Though effectually called to that state of grace and salvation at effectual call, they are EXPERIENTIALLY still separated from Him... i.e. not yet brought to know and believe in their eternal salvation [ALREADY HAPPENED] by God's free grace in Christ Jesus.

ONLY SUCH lost sheep can be found through the gospel ministry, and be experientially united to Christ.

How many "missionaries" out there know this glorious and liberaing truth? Didn't Christ say, "For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light" Mt 11:30.

How many missionaries out there believe that their work is find, and turn dead goats into living sheep by their labours? Oh what oppressive burden sincere missionaries FOOLISHLY impose upon themselves!!!

See that lost sheep in the picture?

It is ALREADY a sheep, Christ's possession, and given eternal life. It is already alive but it is lost, i.e. not experientially united to Christ yet. The ministry of the gospel is to bring such to know the truth of their salvation by God's free grace in Christ!!!

The lost sheep has an owner - the shepherd. Luke 15:6 "And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost."

The lost coin has an owner - the woman.

Luke 15:9 "And when she hath found it, she calleth her friends and her neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost.

The lost son has an owner - the father.

Luke 15:24 "For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found."

Jesus came to save His people from their sin!

Is that difficult to understand, or is it too difficult to accept because it goes against your pet ideas?
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Henry commented about Judas, and the post above was not discussed. 

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Henry
John 17:12 Judas , the son of perdition , was lost eternally.

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid , it is hid to them that are lost...4) in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believeth not....

Sing F Lau
Henry, you may wish to prove that Judas was lost ETERNALLY.

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

"Those that thou gavest me I have kept, and not of them is lost..."

The disjunctive "but" - does it refer to Jesus purposely not keeping Judas so that the Scripture might be fulfilled, or that Jesus helplessly lost Judas? Pick your choice... just don't contradict Christ's word.

Sing F Lau
Henry, you may wish to prove first that all of Christ sheep will also hear and believe the gospel. Thanks.

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid , it is hid to them that are lost...4) in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believeth not....

The gospel does not need to be hidden from the spiritually dead...

The spiritually dead is blind enough already... the god of this do not waste time blinding them.

It is God's children that are prevented from believing!

Beware of sound bytes!

Get the sense!!! They are different things.

Hulan Bass
All Sheep and All Goats were lost in Adam's Fall, but on the SHEEP have a Redeemer - Matt. 25:31--34, 41.

Sing F Lau
Elder Hulan, are the goats among the lost in Christ's statement below:

Lu 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Thank you.

Hulan Bass
All Humanity, figuratively and in an analogy, is only listed as SHEEP and GOATS. Only the Sheep are IN Christ, and their names were written in the Lamb's Book of Life before the foundation of the World. Many texts for proof. Rev. 20:12---15.

Sing F Lau
Did you answer my specific question?

Hulan Bass
Only those LOST IN CHRIST were His Sheep. Even some of His Sheep get lost TIMELY or GOSPELLY. Read: Luke 15:1---6.

Henry
What I am trying to point out here brother Sing is the word "lost" can be used to a lost sheep or a lost person eternally like Judas .

Sing F Lau
I understand that's what you are saying... which is why I suggest that you may want to show us that Judas was lost eternally.

Henry
Son of perdition, means lost eternally .
Luke 22:3 Satan entered into Judas...
John 6:70 ... I chose twelve of you , and one of you is a devil .
Judas is a devil , son of perdition and is lost eternally .
Perdition means eternal damnation.

Sing F Lau
Where did you get the idea that perdition means ETERNAL damnation?
Please give some evidence! Thanks.

If Judas is a devil, Peter would be a satan!!! <LOL>

Dellis Worsham Sr.
Hi Sing, Is it Ok, if I share this thought with some friends of mine? The one in the OP?

Henry
There is no scripture that says Peter is a son of perdition or a devil or lost . I dont know about you brother Sing if you are just listening to your own opinion and not to the scripture . You are strange .

Where do you get the meaning of words bro Sing?

Henry
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means : for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first , and that man of sin be revealed , THE SON OF PERDITION;

How do you understand the son of perdition here bro Sing ? LOST SHEEP? 🙂

Sing F Lau
@ There is no scripture that says Peter is a son of perdition or a devil or lost .
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Mt 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

I don't know about you brother Henry if you are just listening to your own opinion and not to the scripture . You are strange!!!

Where do you get the meaning of words - Judas was LOST...
- LOST in what sense?
- In what sense was Judas was a son of PERDITION? What does that term mean?

You have ASSUMED that that means he was LOST ETERNALLY.

I'm only asking you to prove that assertion.

What does the term "child of hell" mean? Such is lost eternally too?

Mt 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Are you listening to your own voice, and inquire no further?

At least entertain my questions. If you think they are nonsensical, say it and tell us why?

Willy Keat
Sing, why I always see you debating and challenging other believers about the doctrine or your theology....why can't you share something about your work or church ministry to the people.........I think you wasted a lot of your time....hope you spend your free time visiting friends who are sick or needed help....

Sing F Lau
Hi Willy, my work and my ministry is not important. The truth of God is important... my calling is to be a pastor teacher.

You should visit the sick, and those in need of help. Jas 1:27 "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." This passage is addressed to believers in general.

You will probably say Lim Kit Siang wastes a lot of time debating about big issues in Parliament... you would advise him to make himself useful by turun padang and sort out the clogged drains, garbage collection, etc, etc.... Him debating against the unmo-ism and bn-ism is wasting a lot of time!!! Many say, "don't vote for Lim in Gelang Patah... because he will not be around to serve the people. Such stupid folks don't understand... Uncle Kit best serves the people by debating BIG issues of good governance in the Parliament.

A useful way a pastor teacher helps others is to direct them back to the word of God, and away from their imagination. If pastors teachers fail to do that, Christ's sheep will end up believing in FABLES!!!

Willy, this is addressed to believers like you: "Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." Jude 3

Willy, this is addressed to people like me:

4:1 ¶ I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Think about what I say, and may the Lord bless you.

Henry
Brother Sing , you need to go back to school and learn basic English .
In reference to Jesus calling Peter Satan , Satan is a name , it does not specify Peter . Satan being a prince of this world , only minds worldly things .

In other words , Jesus just likened him to Satan , no connection to the state of Peter .

Unlike lost , son of perdition , devil , are modifiers of a noun , specifies a noun , denotes the quality of a person and specifies the distinction to others .

Sing F Lau
Thanks. I go to school everyday... an e-school, learning from other students of God's word, and English as well from men like you!

Teach yourself with your own words....,

"In other words , Jesus just likened him (Judas) to a devil, no connection to the state of Judas."

Henry
"Lost" or " son of perdition " is an adjective . Not like" Satan " is a noun .

Sing F Lau
"Son of perdition" is a PHRASAL NOUN, not an adjective!
"Lost" in John 17:12 is a verb.
"Lost" can be a noun too, referring to that which is in the state of lostness, separated from the owner.

I know a little bit of English too! I do teach a little bit of English at secondary school to help meet the needs of the family.

Henry
Le me give you other interpretations of John 17:12

The Living Bible
John 17:12 During my time here I have kept safe within your family all of these you gave me. I guarded them so that none perished, except the son of hell , as the scriptures foretold . 
"none perished but Judas , the son of hell " the scriptures say "

"None of them is lost but Judas , the son of perdition "
Judas is lost , lost eternally and he PERISHED"
You are funny bro Sing...

Sing F Lau
Yes, I'm funny in that I love to point out the inconsistencies and contradiction in a interpretation.

John 17:12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."

John 6:39 "And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."

Interpreting John 17:12 the way you do - i.e. Judas is ETERNALLY LOST - contradicts John 6:39. Such interpretation contradict Christ's very own words.

John 17:12 does say Judas is LOST. It is an IMAGINATION to say that he is eternally lost. Christ Himself declares in no uncertain term - All which the Father has given to Him, He should lose nothing ETERNALLY... i.e. raise them up at the last day... i.e. SAVED THEM ETERNALLY.

Yes, I'm funny. I just want to be honest with Scriptures... and abhor adding fancy ideas to it.

Thanks for the exchanges.

Henry
There is no contradiction brother Sing . You have to consider the sequence of the scriptures . John 17:12 came later and it superceded John 6:39 . If it is a book , it got revised . The two scriptures are still related but John 7:12 is more specific than John 6.39.

I like you brother Sing . You make me study harder . 🙂

Sing F Lau
Therein lies a big problem... you have just conceded that there are contradictions in the Bible.... one passage superseded the other!!!

The answer is not that one superseded the other.

The answer lies in RIGHTLY dividing the word of truth.

In one passage, Christ speaks of TEMPORAL salvation... John 17:12... i.e. salvation relating to Judas temporal well being and usefulness. In that sense, Judas was LOST, completely lost... with his premature and horrendous death with no further usefulness in Christ kingdom!!!! He messed it up big time!!!

In another, Christ speaks of ETERNAL salvation... i.e. John 6:39. Judas was one among all them that God the Father has given to Christ to redeem. Christ did not lose anyone.... "that of all which he hath given me, I should lose nothing." BUT you insist otherwise... that Christ did lose one, i.e. Judas is ETERNALLY lost!

I don't like you because you can ADD to Scriptures with such ease... <LOOOOOOOOOL> Like so many others, when the Scriptures say "life", they conveniently and CARELESSLY read it as "eternal life"!!! Even so, you insist that Judas is "ETERNALLY lost" even though the Scriptures say nothing to such effect!!!

For a good example Mt 7:13-14.

Henry
I did not add anything to the scriptures .They are both right at their own state . If you say they contradict and you are only siding on John 6:39 , then you are making the other verse wrong .

They are both right ! And again , John 7:12 is more precise ! It is the conclusion of John 6:39 . 🙂

John 7:12 ... None was lost but Judas!

...None perished but Judas!

Sing F Lau
Let the readers do their own conclusion then.

I must conclude that your interpretation requires that Jesus made an erroneous statement in John 6:39, which needed correction later on.

I said your interpretation makes the two passages CONTRADICT themselves.

I have shown you how the two passages are in perfect harmony when rightly divided. It is your interpretation that makes the two passages to contradict.

Of course you DID add to Scriptures... which is what started of this exchanges. You insisted that Judas was ETERNALLY lost.

Thanks.

Henry
Judas was called son of perdition .
Perdition means eternal damnation .
Damnation means the state of being damned.
Damn means to condemn to HELL !

Sing F Lau
You are REPEATING the same thing, and not proving anything.
Please prove that "perdition" means eternal damnation. That's all I'm asking. That would be an easy task if there is any truth in your assertion.

Repetition and assertion proves nothing! <LOL>

Henry
Thats what the scripture says . I dont have to prove anything .

 

Sing F Lau

"Damn means to condemn to HELL!"

May I help you?

Here are 3 occasions "damned" is used in the KJV.

Does your interpretation suit any of these?

Mr 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

(note that damned and saved are used as opposite. According to your definition, unbelief damns a man to hell; and belief saves a man unto heaven! It seems that your believe in a work-based salvation!!!)

Ro 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

(according to your definition, he that doubted... is damned to hell... O Lord, have mercy!!!)

2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

(who does the pronoun "they" refer to? Are they damned to hell for their unbelief? Is that the only meaning of damned... unto hell?)

Henry
The subject here are entirely different .
Where is the word perdition ?
The origin of eternal damnation is the word perdition . NOT damn .
What you are stating bro Sing is entirely no relevance .

Sing F Lau
Thats what the scripture says . I dont have to prove anything .
======

Any fool can claim, "That's what the scripture says."

Henry
Any fool can claim? What verse ?

Sing F Lau
Henry, you said, "Damn means to condemn to HELL !"
I have just shown you that the word "damn" is not used with the sense you imposed upon it!!!

Sing F Lau
Any fool can claim ? What verse ?
=========
Any fool can claim his opinion as the teaching of Scriptures.
You INSISTED "Damn means to condemn to HELL!"
Yes, what verse say that "Damn means to condemn to HELL!"

Henry
Perdition is the key word bro Sing . NOT damn.
You said any fool can claim?
What verse or passage or scripture or holy writ ?

Henry
So a lot of senior pastors that taught me of what I am explaining now are fools also BUT you ?

Sing F Lau
Ok, since you are fixated on the word perdition, and INSIST that perdition means "eternal damnation consider these passages:

1Ti 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

(who does the pronoun "they" refer to - God's children, or those dead in trespasses and sins. If the former, do God's children that will be rich drown in the damnation of hell?)

Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

(God's children among the Jews who draw back into the old covenant... did they ended in eternal hell?)

Sing F Lau
Perdition is the key word bro Sing . NOT damn.
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You used both!!! Here.....
Judas was called son of perdition .
Perdition means eternal damnation .
Damnation means the state of being damned.
Damn means to condemn to HELL !

Henry
They , them - are pronouns for the lost.
We , us , you - are pronouns for the elect.

Sing F Lau
Yes, it is very easy for any one - whether senior pastor or professor to claim, "That's what the scripture says" to validate his opinions.

Perdition (8x) and destruction (5x) are translated from the same word "apōleia".

They do not means ETERNAL destruction as you insisted.

Sing F Lau
They , them - are pronouns for the lost.
We , us , you - are pronouns for the elect.
========

Therein lie your basic error.
If you are consistent, then you have say this:

======
They , them - are pronouns for the lost.
We , us , you - are pronouns for the saved.
======
Or
They , them - are pronouns for the NON-elect.
We , us , you - are pronouns for the elect.
======

Lost and Saved go together; and

Elect and Non-elect is a pair.

Let's go along with your idea that the lost are the NON-elect.

1Ti 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

Why would Paul bother telling the NON-elect who are already under eternal damnation in their native state of FALLING into temptation and a snare... blah blah blah????

1Tim 6:9 is a COMPLETE waste and utterly foolish if it is speaking of the NON-elect!

It makes a whole lot of sense if Paul is warning against God's children that foolishly will be rich! There are God's children who are lost - much like the prodigal son!

Henry
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man daceive you by any means: for that day shall not come , except there come a falling away first ,and that man of sin be revealed , the SON OF PERDITION ;

I asked you about this verse earlier bro Sing . How do you understand the "son of perdition" here ?

Lost sheep ? Eternally saved?

Sing F Lau
And from this verse you INSISTED that Judas was eternally damned???? Please show that it does that.

You insisted John 17:12 teaches that Judas is ETERNALLY damned. I asked you to prove your claim. Is 2Th 2:3 your proof?

I'll read your answer tomorrow. Knocking off now. Thanks. 

What's so obscure about Rev 20:14? And Rev 20:15?

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life
was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev 20

Sir, may I ask. 
Smartyn said that we should only focus on the clearly stated things in the Bible and should not let 1 obscure verse throw us off course. I think he meant the Rev 20:14 verse.

What do you think?

-------️

That's good advice. Things that are clearly stated enlighten those that are not so clearly stated - to rightly divide the word of truth. 

But remember, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." 2 Tim 3:16.

"All scripture" includes the so-called obscure passages.

The inspired Scriptures must be rightly divided.

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." 2 Tim 2:15.

"Man shall not live by bread alone, BUT by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." "Every word" includes those considered obscure passages. 

All Scriptures, rightly divided, are in perfect harmony and unity, without any contradictions.

What's so obscure about Rev 20:14? And Rev 20:15?

Which part is hard to understand? Which part is not clearly stated?
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The claim of obscurity is just a pathetic and lame excuse to dismiss whatever one does not want to believe! Ask for clarity, and thou shalt find it.

So much for the shibboleth of sola scriptura! Just a cheapskate religious platitude to impress the gullible. 

It's cowardice to label a teaching as false without demonstrating its falsity. I will demonstrate the falsity of a teaching with the author, to make sure I have understood the author correctly, before I call it a falsehood.

Seriously, even a donkey can bray "falsehood" loud and clear for whatever he doesn't like or understand.

1 Corinthians 14:38 KJT — But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

Forget him and move on... till he comes begging for you.

Will Christ take you as His disciple?

Will Christ take you as His disciple?

Midweek evening bible study notes on 17 April 2024

We are going through the Gospel of Luke

Lk 14:25-35
Christ Laid Down the Conditions of Following Him.

a. Four observations were recorded from the incident at the Pharisee’s house on the Sabbath day:
- The healing of a man on the Sabbath (v1-6);
- Advice for the guests (v7-11);
- Advice for the host (v12-14);
- The parable of the great supper, warnings against spurning the invitation (v15-24).

b. From the Pharisee’s house, Dr. Luke takes us to the new scene - “great multitudes” were with Him.

Q. What was on the minds of these great multitudes? Why were they with Him? - The Lord took the opportunity to set before them, in the most solemn and emphatic manner, in uncompromising terms, the conditions of coming to Him as His disciples.

- “If any man come to me” – not outwardly like the “great multitudes” that were with him, but coming to Him as the Lord and Saviour, the Son of the living God, and willingly submit to His teaching and will.

Q. Who can come to Jesus Christ?
Q. Who is Jesus addressing in the great multitudes?
Q. Do all God’s children (elect that are effectually called) come to Jesus Christ? (in the context here)
Q. Can a natural man come to Jesus Christ?

1. Discipleship owns Christ above all human relationships (v26)
a. Various human relationships are named…
- lesser relationships in other spheres are included.
- Christ is Lord above all; don't like it? Then, not fit to be His disciple.

b. “… and his own life also”:
- This crucial aspect is not forgotten, SELF must be hated too. ALSO - in addition to all the rest.

c. “…and hate not…”: no proper/actual hatred is commanded by Christ; this would be contrary to God’s laws, Christ's own teaching, and the law of nature.
- What is intended is that these are not to be preferred to Christ, or loved more than He. (Mt 10:37)
- Christ must come first before all these; they are to be forsaken and turned from when they stand in the way of the honour and interest of the Lord.

d. “… cannot be my disciple…”:
- Christ is emphatic and categorical; He does not accommodate or tolerate any less. Bear that in mind. Why should He accept any less?
- Christ is Lord and Saviour; He is no beggar. He has a good name to uphold; tarnish not His name.
- sonship with God is FREE; discipleship with Christ Jesus is COSTLY; the latter relates to our temporal salvation, sonship relates to our eternal salvation.

Q. Why does Christ demand such loyalty? 
Q. How does the demand show that Christ is no cheapskate Master?
Q. Does Christ deserve such loyalty from His disciples? Why? Give some reasons.
Q.  Are all of God's children automatically Christ's disciples also? Why?

2. Discipleship embraces the cross-bearing (v27)

a. “… and his own life also…” is now elaborated.
- How does a disciple hate his own life?
- By bearing his own cross: suffer and endure all reproach, persecutions, afflictions, deprivations, and if need be death itself, cheerfully and patiently.
- Carry his own cross of godly living, Titus 2:12.
- Christ bore His cross for our eternal salvation; as His disciples, each one of us has our own cross for His name sakes. Mt 10:22, 19:29, 24:9, Act 9:16.
- Cross bearing for the Lord’s sake, and suffering for our own stupidity are not the same.

b. “… cannot be my disciple…”
- A disciple is not greater than his lord… John 13:16, 15:20
- A disciple who will live godly in Christ shall suffer persecution. 2Tim 3:12.
- The gospel of grace requires cross bearing: “teaching us, that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world.” Titus 2:12.

Q. Is Christ’s demand for a disciple to bear his own cross reasonable? Why?
Q. Why is Christ so open and honest about the cost of coming after Him?
Q. What does this speak of the person of Christ?
Q. Is Christ deliberately turning away potential disciples?

3. Two illustrations on counting the cost of discipleship (v28-32)

a. Building a tower: finish what you have chosen to start!
- A rhetorical question: only a fool does not count the cost of the project. A wise man will engage a qualified QS to make sure that he can afford to complete the project. Otherwise, he will suffer great loss and humiliation.
- Once a disciple of Jesus, always a disciple, no matter what.
- The same truth also applies to marriage and parenthood. Finish what you have chosen to start!
- Incomplete and abandoned projects are some of the saddest sights to behold; they are like lives cut short prematurely.

b. Waging a war: what's the probability of victory- A rhetorical question: only a fool rushes to war without weighing the probability of victory.
- A wise king will first consult his strategists about the likelihood of victory. Otherwise, he will sue for peace with the enemy.
- Discipleship is fighting a good fight of faith; it's a fight, a hard fight to victory in Christ.
- The same truth applies to arguments and theological disputes. When engaged, be prepared to admit defeat when shown to be in error! Otherwise, hold thy peace.

Q. How do the two illustrations used by Christ show the wisdom of counting the cost of discipleship?

4. Discipleship relinquishes all to Christ’s Lordship (v33)
a. “… forsaketh not all that he hath…”: it’s a zero-sum game; it’s all or nothing.
- Following Christ means willing, when need be, to lose everything we possess for His sake.
- The Lord does not intend His disciples to sell or give away all they own and take the oath of self-imposed poverty.
- What He requires is subjecting all that one have to His Lordship and disposal SUCH THAT these things do not hinder us following His as a disciple..
- Otherwise, one is not fit to be His disciple.

Q. What have you consciously forsaken to follow Christ?
Q. Why does Jesus demand this “all or nothing” requirement?
Q. Are there things you possess/love that hinder you from following Christ faithfully? Vocation? Hobbies? Leisure? etc.

Shepherding the flock of God

Battering the sheep of God!

https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/pfbid02eWftjeYMRSfiaHgFbY7iyYf6g7aX5nVPEg8VoBNS1NaC79Gmvz7KKvz6c2BoM2Gbl

December 07, 2022

#shepherding
A man asked these questions:
- What is heavy shepherding?
- Examples of heavy shepherding?
- In contrast, is there light or no shepherding? What are the examples?
- What are the biblical examples of good spiritual shepherding?
---------

Thank you for asking these good questions.

Let me repeat (I have said this many times) an important truth related to your excellent questions.

- The CHIEF manner an under-shepherd (a pastor) shepherds the sheep of Christ (members of a local church under his oversight) is the faithful preaching of the word of God. 2Tim 4:1-5.

- The CHIEF way in which the rule of Christ is administered in a local church is through the preaching of His word; His truth and His will are made known and applied to His sheep.

- “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.” The word faithfully preached is shepherding rightly discharged

- The public ministry of the word may need to be followed up/augmented by the personal ministry; some members may need to be reminded personally what has been preached and speaks to their circumstances.

 

1. Heavy Shepherding
a. What is heavy shepherding?
- Heavy shepherding is lording over the Lord’s people; infringing upon the liberty of church members.
- 1Pet 5:1 "The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: 2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; 3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.

b. Examples of heavy shepherding?
There are endless examples…
- “Brother John, it’s time for you to retire; resign and move to Penang.”
- “Brother Buoy, look for another job that does not hinder you from the assembly of the saints.”
- “Brother Won, invite Errol home for lunch.” 
- “Brother… tell your wife to dress decently.”
- “Sister, your dress hem should be 4 inches below your knees…”
- Visiting homes of members unannounced/uninvited to check on their family life.
- Checking with members how much they have been giving.
- Using the pulpit to attack/pick on the members personally, etc.

 2. Is there light or no shepherding?
a. Yes. Neglecting to instruct the people to embrace the doctrines and the practices of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Not all activities in a church equal/ amount to biblical shepherding.

b. What are the examples?
- Neglecting to exhort the non-resident members to observe good churchmanship in a local church.
- Ignoring wayward church members.
- Sweeping under the carpet problems and issues in the church. 

Q3. What are the biblical examples of good spiritual shepherding?
a. The epistles of the Apostles are great examples of good spiritual shepherding…
- All the epistles deal with doctrines (what the recipients ought to believe), and the applications of those doctrines (how the recipients ought to conduct themselves, their duties to God, and fellow believers.
- Real issues faced by the church are discussed and resolved with the Bible’s authority.

I hope these help. You probably have some better ideas.