"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in
the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus
Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"
The Apostle Paul is addressing BRETHREN and
SAINTS...
And these Corinthian BRETHREN and SAINTS were
behaving very unbecomingly - having been misguided and deceived by some 'super
apostles' and were disaffected towards Apostle Paul, and were doubting his
office and his gospel.
These BRETHREN and SAINTS were acting
unbecoming of the gospel - that Apostle Paul asked them to examine themselves,
whether they be IN THE FAITH.
God's children may behave and conduct
themselves in such a way that they are NOT in the faith!
Their STATUS as BRETHREN and SAINTS is not
being questioned! Their unbecoming conduct and spirit are... they are
reprobates in their conduct and spirit towards Apostle Paul.
But so many take this passage as Apostle
Paul's admonishing the Corinthians to examine whether they are reprobates in
the context of divine election to eternal life!!!
[Someone asked a question... but has deleted it, and his other comments]
Sing F Lau
Quite simple sir...
Make the distinction between being in the
STATE OF GRACE, and being IN THE FAITH.
God's children, who are already in THE STATE
OF GRACE, need to be brought INTO the faith first through the gospel
ministry... and by their obedience STAYS and REMAINS in the faith. Their
carelessness and disobedience will reverse that. Unbelief, and God's children
are so capable of that, cause them to cease to be IN THE FAITH. BUT nothing
will cause them to cease to be in the STATE OF GRACE - for that is wholly,
solely, completely by the grace of God, and it is immutable and eternal!
You know, so many American citizens are
disgustingly un-American! The same happens among God's children, and this
explains the need for the question, "whether ye be IN the faith?"
Jerry Chapin
If we could just remember that the Scriptures
were written for the Lord's children and not for the unregenerate perhaps our
thinking would tend to fall into place.
Sing F Lau
MC @ A man may profess faith and not be in a
state of Grace.
However, I see the terms "in
Christ", "in the Faith" as describing the same kind of people.
================
There is probably confusion in both
statements.
A man is effectually called into a state of
grace and salvation is UNITED to Christ, therefore is in Christ. There is
nothing a man can do bring himself to be in the state of grace or to be in
Christ. That is entirely divine work. Only when God HAS effectually calls an
elect and unites him to Christ ENABLES a man to do something to be IN THE
FAITH.
A man is in Christ by the free and sovereign
work of God. And this work is complete and immutable.
A man is in the faith through the gospel
ministry by his believing and obedience to the gospel. He does something right
to be in the faith. He does something wrong, and he is NOT in the faith.
Apostle Paul, who called the Corinthians to
examine themselves whether they be in the faith, said these words to the same
people: " Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be
of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with
you."
There are not just religious niceties. They
are inspired truth. There are BRETHREN, children of God.
A child of God may not be in the faith by
their unbelief and unbecoming conduct.
Sing F Lau
MC @ "But I have prayed for thee that thy
FAITH FAIL NOT." Luke 22:32
========
Apostle Peter's faith did fail... and if
Christ had not prayed for the recovery of his faith, he would have become a
castaway concerning his faith. Those are historical facts.
Why pray against something from happening if
there is no possibility of that ever happening?
Similarly, why warn against something
happening if there is no possibly of that danger to actually happening?
It is quite simple to my simple mind.
It takes me NOTHING to be in the STATE OF
GRACE. It is all by the free and sovereign grace of God. And there is nothing I
can un-do what God has done for me. I am not involved in doing it, and I won't
be involved in its un-doing.
It takes me, a child of God by His free and
sovereign grace, a great deal to come into the faith, and remain in the faith.
It is by my ACTIVE RESPONSES to God's will to enter into the faith, and to
remain in the faith. By my carelessness and negligent, I may just undo that.
The Corinthians were already in the STATE OF
GRACE before Apostle Paul's faithful ministry brought them into the faith of
the gospel. Then some 'super apostles' came to the church in Corinth and
preached another Jesus and another gospel as well as caricatured Apostle Paul
and his gospel. Through this, the SAINTS and BRETHREN in Corinth were deceived
and misled... prompting Apostle Paul to exhort them to examine whether they are
STILL in the faith. They give all appearance they they are NO LONGER because of
their doubt against Paul's apostleship and his gospel.
"One who is "in Grace" can
NEVER "cease to be in the faith" - this is fiction at best; at worst,
it is clearly anti-scriptural.
Just being honest. Keep talking
Sing F Lau
Please say hello to Elder Hulan Bass.
He is too enigmatic for too many people.
Very few understand pb jargons! <LOL>
Sing F Lau
I read that Peter denied Christ, with
swearing and cursing...
He forsook Christ and went back to his
life...
UNTIL Christ restored him.
There were many like Peter was not
restored... but made a complete shipwreck of their faith.
Sing F Lau
"ALL MEN have not faith..."
Very many believe "ALL MEN"
included those dead in trespasses and sins, who obviously have not faith... but
that is a foolish idea. It makes Paul to say something so obvious, and also as
though he expects faith from such.
'ALL MEN" obviously refers specifically
to the children of God, and NOT all of them are believing. This is a hard
saying. It is so much easier to say the unbelieving are dead in trespasses and
sins.
"As concerning the gospel, they are
enemies for your sake: but as touching ELECTION, they are beloved for the
father's sake."
How many Christians there are today who are
unbelieving concerning THE GOSPEL once delivered to the saints.
Sing F Lau
@ "One who is "in
Grace" can NEVER "cease to be in the faith" - If this notion is true, then all
those warnings to the BRETHREN and SAINTS (those brought into the state of
grace by God's free grace are meaningless and redundant.
Or may be the apostles who issued those
warnings didn't know such modern notions. Otherwise, the warnings sound foolish
and redundant!
Warnings against the real danger of falling
from the faith are very different from exhortations to continue walking in the
faith.
The former presuppose the real danger of
God's children falling away. To say otherwise is to make the warnings redundant
and foolish, and to turn them into lies.
The latter presuppose that the real danger
can be avoided with watchfulness and diligence.
Both are the teaching of Scriptures. You
choose to believe the latter. That's your liberty!
And there are plian facts that some of God's
children have made shipwreck of their faith... some would rather judge that
such do not have faith to begin with because of the presupposition that God's
children cannot make a shipwreck of their faith.
Sing F Lau
Think through such rhetorical questions...
they arise out of confusion.
Those passages are consistent with the truth
that every child of God is kept and preserved in the state of grace.
The state of grace is a direct result of
regeneration. Regeneration brings an elect into the state of grace.
Regeneration is solely the divine act... remotely connected with the
perseverance of those regenerated!
The SOUND of "our faith" has
distracted you... you miss its SENSE. "Our FAITH" is that faith of
the elect given to each one at effectual calling. It is "our FAITH"
in the sense that it belongs to us, our possession.
It is our FAITH NOT in the sense that we
persevere in a life of believing and obeying.
You insist on the latter; you get the SOUND
but miss the SENSE.
Your being in the state of grace is kept by
the power of God... not your act of persevering in believing and obeying to
the end of your life.
Your false presupposition causes you to reject
what is plainly stated in the Scriptures. God's children do suffer destruction
in this life... they make a shipwreck of their faith... they fall out of the
faith because of negligence and carelessness.
I have said enough. I will let you have the
last word.
I will archive the exchanges and leave it on
the blog for my church members to read. You will appear as "Catte".
Thank you for the discussion.
