November 6, 2010
aLloyd
Hi Sing, I'm just wondering what your view is, that if there is no point
preaching to those who are dead in sins and trespasses if you say then that
was never true of the elect? in other words as the elect of God was there ever
a time when you were dead in your sins and trespasses.
Sing F Lau
I am glad you are inquiring about what I believe.
It is better that you do know what I believe, rather than misunderstanding or
misrepresenting me. God bless you.
Will you please tell me the point of
preaching the gospel to them that are still dead in trespasses and sins. I
would like to hear. You know, superstitious Chinese loves to offer good food,
really good food like roast chicken and roast piglets, etc. to the dead...
Jesus told Peter, "Feed my lambs....
Feed my sheep... Feed my sheep." Get the point. Jesus didn't say,
"Lamb my lambs and sheep" or "Help me raise my dead
sheep..."
You asked: as the elect of God was their ever
a time when you were dead in your sins and trespasses?
Let me put this in the simplest form:
ALL MEN were conceived and born in sins,
without exception.
All men by nature is described in Eph 2:1-3
1 ¶ And you hath he quickened, who were dead
in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to
the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the
spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation
in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh
and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Note the various things said:
- dead in trespasses and sins;
- walked according to the course of this
world,
- walked according to the prince of the power
of the air
- were children of disobedience
- were children of wrath...
- EVEN AS OTHERS, even as the non elect.
ALL THESE are as true of the elect in their
NATURAL state, even as others.
Each individual elect is effectually called
to grace and salvation at some point between their conception and death -
directly and immediately by the divine activities of God, i.e. without man's
aid or instrumentality.
And God sends out preachers to preach the
gospel - the good news of what God has done to save His elect through His Son
Jesus Christ - to such, so that they may be CONVERTED to the truth, and live as
God's children...
I hope the above helps
aLloyd
And God sends out preachers to preach the
gospel - the good news of what God has done to save His elect through His Son
Jesus Christ - to such, so that they may be CONVERTED to the truth, and live as
God's children...
So again I agree with what you are saying,
however, how do the preachers know whom to preach the gospel to and how do
they know when and where they are being sent? Sorry if I seem dense to you
but my way of thinking say the call is a universal call but obviously the
wind listeth where it wills and only those He blows on are quickened. See many
are called few are chosen. Don't we beseech all men to repent and believe
knowing that God will give His own internal call?
Sing F Lau
You asked, "however how do the preachers
know in whom to preach the gospel to?"
=======
The preacher DOES NOT NEED to know who... and
he DOES NOT know who among his hearers are the elect. BUT he must most
certainly know that the purpose of his ministry is to reach God's children
among his hearers, that his preaching the gospel is relevant ONLY to God's
children. But God's children among His hearers will MANIFEST themselves through
faith in the Lord Jesus Christ preached in the gospel.
The preaching of the gospel WILL BRING TO
LIGHT, MAKE MANIFEST those that are God's children among the hearers - they
will show themselves through their faith in their Savior.
You asked, "how do they know when and
where they are being sent"? Christ is the head of the church and the Holy
Spirit will lead those that are Christ's gift to the church.
"And he gave some, apostles; and some,
prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the
perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the
body of Christ..."
Too many are called and sent forth by MISSION
BOARD... and not by Christ! I see many missionaries as those on baptized exotic
holidays paid handsomely by mission board... mission boards have usurped the role
of local churches and the Holy Spirit!
A public proclamation is by its very nature
public. It is addressed to all hearer, telling them the glorious gospel of what God
has done for His elect people in Jesus Christ, and applied by the Holy Spirit,
and calling the hearers to believe. And only God's children among the hearers
will believe the gospel.
God's effectual call HAS TAKEN place BEFORE -
BEFORE - BEFORE the gospel call issued by the preachers!
You are still stuck with the LIE of gospel
regeneration... that God will give His internal call ONLY after the gospel call
is issued! You still condition God's internal call to the man's external gospel
call!
Oh, that seeming INCURABLE disease! Worse than
AIDS!
Sing F Lau
aLlyod@ "See many are called few are
chosen."
Please take your time to consider this
carefully.
The parable in Mt 22:1-14 ends with these
words." For many are called, but few are chosen."
The phrase 'many are called but few are
chosen' has been PROSTITUTED and ABUSED for SO LONG that very few understand
what its means anymore.
The phrase must be understood in the context
of the parable where it is found! Three rules of interpretation: Context,
context, and context!
If the calling and choosing is not
restricted to the context of the parable, then it is just plainly OUT OF
CONTEXT. So, if 'chosen' is ...equated with 'choosing before foreknowledge'
then it is plainly wrong! And if calling is related to gospel calling to
eternal salvation it is also plainly wrong.
The parable is not about getting eternal
salvation. The parable informs us something about the kingdom of heaven -
though many are called to enjoy its blessings, yet only few are chosen to enjoy
it.
The parable of the kingdom of heaven is
dealing SPECIFICALLY with God's children among the Jews. The kingdom of heaven
is a term used specifically to contrast with the earthly theocratic kingdom
that God's children among the Jews are so familiar with. They are called to
leave it, and to enter the kingdom of heaven... leave to old covenant kingdom
into the new covenant kingdom.
That's the context of the 'many are called
but few are chosen.'
Many of them are called by the gospel, but
only a few of them were chosen to enjoy the blessings of the gospel.
Many of God's children among the Jews are
called by the gospel. (NOT ALL of them are called by the gospel call.) Though
many of them are called by the gospel call, yet only a few were chosen to believe
and experience the blessings of the gospel.
Many of God's children among the Jews were
blinded... only a remnant of God's children among the Jews were chosen to
believe the gospel.
Read Romans 11...
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should
be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that
blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be
come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is
written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness
from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I
shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies
for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’
sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are
without repentance.
aLloyd
Well, I again agree with you, especially about
missionaries, if you're not called stay home. Second, I am sure that God does not
need men to save men I myself came to believe through no human agent God alone
quickened me through His word. No, I think regeneration is a complete act of God
through the Holy Spirit.
aLloyd
so Jesus is just addressing the Jews in the
parable, I can see that. In fact I think that is the case in a lot of the
gospel, after all, He came to His own but His own did not receive Him.
What is your position on eschatology?
Sing F Lau
What about eschatology? Anything specific?
aLloyd
Just wondering about your position. What do you
believe concerning the millennium pre-A or post, I'm wondering because Gill was
historic pre-A. I'm wondering do you hold to the same?
Sing F Lau
I believe the millennium is the period
between the first and second coming of Christ.
At the end of the gospel age, Christ would
return, general resurrection and transformation followed by the great judgment,
and the ushering in of the eternal state of blessedness.
This is the beauty and simplicity of the gospel teaching on the millennium - to me anyway. I read the Bible, and that is what it says to me...
aLloyd
that would be Amill, I agree can't get past the one judgment of the righteous and the wicked.
Sing F Lau
This is a test... get a new believer who has
never heard of the pre. post or a-mil stuff... get him to read the bible... ask
him about the matter... and he will tell you just that... Christ will come at
the end of the gospel age, accompanied by general resurrection and general
judgment... THEN entering into the glorious eternal inheritance...
WITHOUT that childish idea of another thousand years of this sin-sick cursed world...
aLloyd
true when I first believed that's how I read
it. you have to do all sorts of theological gymnastics to come up with the
dispensational view of end times. In fact, you just about have to re-write
scripture; at best, their interpretations are novel.
