 |
When the sons of God
took on flesh, |
https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/10215010021539466
November 13, 2019
Reggie Lee
That is an amazing concept
Sing F Lau
Reggie, go to this post "angels that
sinned" and answer the questions posed. The study exercise itself will do you good.
https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/10214998439569924
Joe Chin
Good one! I didn't think of that connection
before
Adam Wells
Joe Chin, does the scriptures say that the
sons of God took on flesh? Please read here:
http://www.letgodbetrue.com/.../nephilim-sons-of-god-word...
Sing F Lau
Adam, thanks for the link. We have gone
through it. Didn't convince me.
Does the Scriptures say that godly Sethites
marry ungodly women?
If you are interested, consider the questions
posed in the post here:
https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/10214998439569924
The exercise itself will do you good.
Sonny Bonner
That which is flesh is flesh, that which is
spirit is spirit.
Sing F Lau
Sonny, that which is spirit can take on
flesh is a HARD biblical fact harder to ignore. Some elect angels took on flesh throughout
the Bible to run divine errands. What prevent the fallen angels from doing the
same, in transgression against God, with the intention to thwart/circumvent the
curse in Gen 3:15?
Adam Wells
http://www.letgodbetrue.com/pdf/second-peter-two.pdf
Sing F Lau
I have studied through it. There are a few
things I can't agree with, unfortunately.
I'm preaching through 2Pet 2 now. That's why the subject of the "angels that sinned" come to mind.
Sing F Lau
Adam, have you tried answering the simple
questions on the angels that sinned?
Adam Wells
Are you referring to the questions in the
link you sent?
Sing F Lau
Adam Wells, I assume you have read Brother Jonathan's
note in 2Pet 2, please help me with this question: what was the sin of the
angels, and when did it happen? He indicated that it was something that occurred
before Gen 1:1; "God and Peter gave you a glimpse of a great event
occurring before Gen 1:1." What was that sin then?
He also said, "God saved the rest of the angels from sin and judgment." What was that sin that God saved the rest of the angels from? (notes in verse 4)
Please say hello to Ma'am Fawn and the boys for me. Thanks.
Adam Wells
John 8:44 says that the devil "abode not
in the truth" which equals Jude 1:6 "kept not their first
estate." Other than these 2 references, I can't find a sin which is
ascribed directly to fallen angels and makes sense before creation. ("He
was a murderer from the beginning" refers to creation.) It is a great stretch
to try to read Gen 6 into being the sin spoken of in Peter. The argument is not
only weak but simply nonsensical as there is no evidence that angels can take
on flesh.
Thanks for the greetings!
Sing F Lau
Let me understand you correctly first. So the
angels that sinned refer to that initial rebellion against God that got them
cast out of heaven? Was that the sin and occasion?
Sing F Lau
So you are equating the DEVIL not abiding in
the truth the same as the ANGELS not keeping their first estate? Do I
understand you right?
Adam Wells
Sing F Lau ... Yes. Angels leaving their
first estate does not mean that they were no more angels in the same way that
Adam leaving his first estate doesn't mean he became an ape but rather a
sinner.
Sing F Lau
Does your "yes" affirm that for
Jude 1:6 and 2Pet 2:4 "the angels that sinned" refer to the initial
rebellion that got them thrown out of heaven,
OR
Does your "yes" affirm that the
DEVIL not abiding in the truth is the same thing as the ANGELS not keeping
their first estate?
Sing F Lau
Adam @ "John 8:44 says that the devil
"abode not in the truth" which equals Jude 1:6 "kept not their
first estate." Other than these 2 references, I can't find a sin which is
ascribed directly to fallen angels and makes sense before creation. ("He
was a murderer from the beginning" refers to creation.) It is a great
stretch to try to read Gen 6 into being the sin spoken of in Peter. The
argument is not only weak but simply nonsensical as there is no evidence that
angels can take on flesh."
==========
"I can't find a sin which is ascribed
directly to fallen angels and makes sense before creation" - of course, you
can't, there isn't such a thing to be found in Scriptures. But who is saying
that?
Angels (I supposed NOT fallen yet) that
sinned BEFORE CREATION is mentioned by Brother Jonathan in his explanation on
2Pet 2:4; It is his idea
Let's assume that unfallen angels did sin
BEFORE CREATION, what was that sin? What was the consequence of that sin?
In 2Pet 2:4, it is some of the fallen angels
that sinned in that they took upon themselves human nature and propagate
themselves with the daughters of men.
Your statement "there is no evidence that angels can take on flesh" befits someone who has never read the Bible, or a Bible reader who is WILFULLY ignorant, said with all due respect.
Sing F Lau
Reposting a comment from above:
----------------
I assume you have read Brother Jonathan's
note in 2Pet 2, please help me with this question: what was the sin of the
angels, and when did it happen? He indicated that it was something that occurred
before Gen 1:1. "God and Peter gave you a glimpse of a great event
occurring before Gen 1:1."
MY QUESTION: What was that sin then?
He also said, "God saved the rest of the
angels from sin and judgment."
MY QUESTION: What was that sin that God saved the
rest of the angels from?
(notes in verse 4)
Sing F Lau
Adam @ "Yes. Angels leaving their first
estate does not mean that they were no more angels in the same way that Adam
leaving his first estate doesn't mean he became an ape but rather a
sinner."
======
Nice try, Adam.
Adam Wells, a human, who left the estate of singlehood
for the estate of matrimony is still as human but is now joined to a woman.
That's one way to use the word estate.
The eternal Word was made flesh, united with
flesh, and became God-man, the Son of God. He became what he wasn't BUT He did
not cease to be what He has always been, Divine.
2Pet 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned,
but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be
reserved unto judgment.
Jude 6
And the angels which kept not their first
estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains
under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Do you see the connection between their first
estate and their own habitation? Their own habitation is their NATIVE
God-ordained spirit-realm.
Those angels that sinned joined themselves to
human flesh; they kept not their first estate, i.e. they forsook their first
and native estate; they left their OWN HABITATION, their own habitation is in
the realm of spirit. They left their own habitation and trespassed into the
habitation of man.
They left it and entered the physical realm,
with sinister intention and the devastating effects, the details of which are recorded
in Gen 6.
BUT grace intervened.
Adam Wells
The problem with eisegesis is the person
doing it doesn't think they are. You want it to say that so you have read it into
the text.
Sing F Lau
Adam Wells, that applies to you and every
student of God's word too. Don't tell me you are incapable of eisegesis.
So, tell us exactly what is your
interpretation, then we can discuss its merit. 🙂
Sing F Lau
Adam Wells, have you tried answering those
questions posed on 2Pet 2:4 and Jude 6?
Adam Wells
Sing F Lau, I agree with the interpretation
given in the links from letgodbetrue. I've no need to restate it as it is clear
and precise.
Sing F Lau
Since you do agree with the interpretation, I
assume that you have understood what's stated there. That's a reasonable
assumption, I hope.
Then help me answer the two questions I have
posed on what's stated there. I reposted my two questions but they were
ignored or might be just overlooked.
Let me re-repost it here; this is the third
time.
----------
I assume you have read Brother Jonathan's
note in 2Pet 2, please help me with this question: what was the sin of the
angels, and when did it happen? He indicated that it was something that occurred
before Gen 1:1. "God and Peter gave you a glimpse of a great event
occurring before Gen 1:1."
MY QUESTION: What was that sin then?
He also said, "God saved the rest of the
angels from sin and judgment."
MY QUESTION: What was that sin God saved the
rest of the angels from?
(His notes in verse 4)
---------
Thanks.
Sing F Lau
Adam Wells, This is the note on "The angels that sinned."
A. If God judged angels so hard, He will
surely judge men defying Him (Job 4:18).
B. Compare Jude’s version of fallen angels
and their judgment by God (Jude 1:6).
C. God saved the rest of the angels from sin
and judgment (Mat 25:31; I Ti 5:21).
D. God and Peter gave you a glimpse of a
great event occurring before Gen 1:1.
You stated that you agreed with the interpretation given. So, please help me with these simple questions:
MY QUESTIONS:
- what was that great event occurring
before Gen 1:1?
- what sin and judgment did God save the rest
of the angels from?
Tell us, please.
Adam Wells
Sing F Lau, You and I both know that the
scriptures do not irrefutably tell us what Satan's "original" sin
was. The great event then is referring to Satan's sin, however, we are not told
specifically what that sin is. The rest of the angels referred to are elect
angels, hence the reason they didn't fall from their estate.
Sing F Lau
Thank you for responding to my question
somewhat.
You should speak for yourself; you know not
what I don't know.
Would 2Pet 2:4 and Jude 6 be references to
that original sin committed before Gen 1:1? Please answer that question.
Thanks.
Was it Satan's original sin (before Gen 1:1)
that caused him and his host to be cast out of heaven or was that the result of
another sin?
Thanks. Keeping talking. You are helping me learn a few things.
Adam Wells
Sing F Lau, we have already said that this reference the Fall of Satan which was due to his original sin. If you know what
that sin was, say it plainly.
Sing F Lau
Thanks for affirming that. I want to know
what exactly you believe by stating them. What was the consequence (to Satan and his
host) because of the original sin of Satan (before Gen 1:1)?
Adam Wells
Sing F Lau, the aforementioned scriptures
answer that... We do not read those passages as referencing Gen 6, which has
nothing to do with angels.
Sing F Lau
I'll demonstrate to you that that view is much
worse of than weak and nonsensical; it is self-contradictory and inconsistent in
many ways. I will do that when I have access to my laptop. (Typing this from my toilet seat baking the royal cake!)
Adam Wells
Please also name the "original" sin
of Satan along with the scripture which states it. (No further explanation
required just a one-sentence/word.) I would like to hear this.
Sing F Lau
You have said a few things about
"original sin" of Satan; let me quote from above.
1. " Sing F Lau You and I both know that
the scriptures do not irrefutably tell us what Satan's "original" sin
was. The great event then is referring to Satan's sin, however, we are not told
specifically what that sin is."
2. "Sing F Lau, we have already said that this reference the Fall of Satan which was due to his original sin. If you
know what that sin was, say it plainly."
Adam, I may not know what the original sin
was since you have stated that "the scriptures do not irrefutably tell us
what Satan's "original" sin was."
But I can show you that to 2Pet 2:4 and Jude 6 CAN'T POSSIBLY be referring to what you termed as Satan's original sins. To insist that they are, you have to commit many contradictions and inconsistencies.
Sing F Lau
Adam Wells, here is a statement on that
"original" sin in today's proverb commentary.
"The first sin in the universe was pride –
Satan’s pride (I Tim 3:6). His arrogant ambition was to be like the most high
God (Is 14:12-14). And he was punished for it. How severely? He and his angels
are reserved for eternal torment in hell forever (Is 14:15; Matt 25:41; II Pet
2:4; Rev 20:10). The devil’s great abilities cannot save him at all.
The first sin in the universe, so that sin
must be AFTER Gen 1:1, unless you insist that there was a universe before Gen
1:1, and angels were created before the creation week.
You said you agreed to all that. That's why
I'm asking.
You wrote, "Sing F Lau, I agree with the
interpretation given in the links from letgodbetrue. I've no need to restate it
as it is clear and precise."
Sing F Lau
The first sin in the universe was pride -
Satan's pride. What was the consequence? Satan and his lackeys were expelled
from heaven and cast down to the earth.
The specific sin mentioned in 2Pet and Jude,
was committed by some fallen angels. What was the sin? Go and read the two
passages again.
What was the consequence for those angels
involved? Go and read the two passages again.
Are the two sins the same? Go and read the
two passages again and compare them with the "original sin" of Satan.
Any more questions?
=======
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https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/10215010021539466
