https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/2202330653271
November 14, 2011
The Old School Baptists stated this in their
confession of faith (1689.3.1)
"God hath decreed in Himself, from all
eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and
unchangeably, all things, whatsoever come to pass; yet so as thereby is God
neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence
offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of
second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears His wisdom
in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His
decree."
Many think they copied this blindly from the
WCF. They are quite mistaken! See for yourself.
Here is the WCF.3.1
God from all eternity did by the most wise
and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever
comes to pass; yet so as thereby neither is God the author of sin; nor is
violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or
contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.
This truth stated in this paragraph has often
been VERY MISUNDERSTOOD by many - both the reformed Calvinists as well as Particular Baptists.
And this serious error revolves around the
words, 'all things.'
Many Particular Baptists reject the above
statement because they read the term 'all things' out of context and make it mean 'all things' exhaustively.
But 'all things' in the context refer to all
those things mentioned in the rest of the chapter, even all things involved in
the predestination of the elect to eternal glory. Go and read the rest of the
chapter to convince yourself!
If the term 'all things' means 'all things'
exhaustively, then it is indeed a very serious error. And this is an error
embraced by many reformed Calvinists. If God has decreed all things, then God
is necessarily the author of ALL things, both good and evil, and no amount of
disclaimer can avoid and deny that necessary implication.
So many take the words 'all things' out of
context and impute silly things to the Framers of the 1689 CoF. They are far
wiser and biblical than those who claim them as their forebears - both the
legitimate and illegitimate ones!
Besides that, the notion that God has decreed
'all things' - as commonly understood - because He is sovereign, and that in
order that He will remain in control of 'all things' is so reflective of the
thinking of finite and weak man.
The whole idea is blasphemous. One who is truly sovereign and omnipotent does not need to decree 'all things' in order to remain in full control of His creation. One who is truly sovereign and omnipotent gives all His creature their freedom, AND still remains sovereign and in full control of His whole creation. There are no contingencies with God. An all-wise and all-powerful Sovereign can let His creature full freedom, which is necessary to the foundation of His moral government over His moral creatures.
1689.3.2. "Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can
come to pass, upon all supposed conditions,(5) yet hath He not decreed
anything, because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass
upon such conditions.(6)
This paragraph QUALIFIES on the absolutely free and sovereign nature of the decree of all things in the predestination of the elect to glory
But 'all things' in the context refer to all
those things mentioned in the rest of the chapter, even all things involved in
the predestination of the elect to eternal glory. Go and read the rest of the
chapter to convince yourself!
======
What are the 'all things' pertaining to
predestination in the paragraphs that follow?
Let's start digging all those precious
nuggets!
1689.3.3.
"By the decree of God, for the
manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestined, or
foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ,(7) to the
praise of His glorious grace;(8) others being left to act
in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of His
glorious justice.(9)
7. 1Ti 5:21; Mt 25:34. 8. Eph 1:5-6. 9. Ro 9:22-23; Jude 4.
4. These angels and men thus predestined and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite,
that it cannot be either increased or diminished. (10) 10. 2Ti 2:19; Jn 13:18.
5. Those of mankind that are predestined to
life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid,
according to His eternal and immutable purpose, and the
secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, hath chosen in
Christ unto
everlasting glory, out of His mere free grace
and love,(11) without any other thing in the creature as a
condition or cause moving Him thereunto.(12)
11. Eph 1:4,9,11; Ro 8:30; 2Ti 1:9; 1Th 5:9. 12. Ro 9:13,16; Eph 2:5,12.
6. As God hath appointed the elect unto
glory, so He hath, by the eternal and most free purpose of His
will, foreordained all the means thereunto;(13)
wherefore they who are elect, being fallen in Adam, are
redeemed by Christ,(14) are effectually called unto faith
in Christ, by His Spirit working in due season, are justified,
adopted, sanctified,(15) and kept by His power through
faith unto salvation;(16) neither are any other redeemed
by Christ, or effectually called, justified, adopted,
sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.(17)
13. 1Pe 1:2; 2Th 2:13. 14. 1Th 5:9-10. 15. Ro 8:30; 2Th 2:13. 16. 1Pe 1:5. 17. Jn 10:26; 17:9; 6:64.
7. The doctrine of this high mystery of
predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care,
that men attending the will of God revealed in His
Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the
certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their
eternal election; (18) so shall this doctrine afford matter of
praise,(19) reverence, and admiration of God, and of
humility,(20) diligence, and abundant consolation to all
that sincerely obey the gospel (21)
18. 1Th 1:4-5; 2Pe 1:10. 19. Eph 1:6; Ro 11:33. 20. Ro. 11:5-6,20. 21. Lk 10:20.
Charles Page
God foreknew Cain would kill Abel but God
certainly did not ordain, decree nor predetermine the murder. (God is not the
author of sin, man is) He did predetermine both their elections to heaven.
Sing
Brother Charles, 'foreknew' and 'foresaw'
have different theological meanings. I think you meant 'foresaw' - as in 'because
He foresaw it as future...'
'Foreknew' as used in Ro 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren' and Ro 11:2 'God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew' convey very different and distinct meaning.
Charles Page
You are right; my error! foreseen!
Sing
1689.3.3 - 'By the decree of God, for the
manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestined, or
foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ,(7) to the praise of His
glorious grace;(8) others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation,
to the praise of His glorious justice. (9)
WCF.3.3 - 'By the decree of God, for the
manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto
everlasting life, and others foreordained to everlasting death.
Please read and compare. Whoever still insists
that the 1689 CoF is just a copy of the WCF is probably an idiot! <LOL>
WCF states 'double predestination' - 'some
men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others foreordained
to everlasting death.'
1689 states 'predestination' and
'preterition' - 'some men and angels are predestined to eternal life... others
being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation.'
1689 Baptists and WCF Calvinists ARE WORLD
apart!
Calvinists assert that God FOREORDAINED
some to everlasting death. What kind of God is that?
1689 Baptists believe that God left some to act in their sin to their just condemnation. What kind of God is that?
Sing
1689.3.3 - 'By the decree of God, for the
manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestined, or
foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ,(7) to the praise of His
glorious grace;(8) others being left to act in their sin to their just
condemnation, to the praise of His glorious justice. (9)
========
That said, what are some of the 'all things'
stated in this paragraph?
First: the predestination of some men and angels to eternal life through Jesus Christ.
Charles Page
I am not the scholar who knows about 'some'
angels but I do believe that the temporal actions of the elected bound for
heaven are self-determined and not predetermined by God. God has a will and
purpose for each of us and it is our responsibility to achieve
that will and purpose in our lives in such a way that we will be severely
accountable to God in judgement.
"Why
didn't you do what I wanted you to do?"
"Now
quit ye sniffling and get your sorry butt onto the streets of gold and live
in yer mansion in me father's house."
Charles Page
Sing, I await the word from God about the fate
of the non-elect. The last word I have is that the non-elect are in the
condition as ALL MEN descended from Adam, dead. The elect are regenerated and
are living souls, again. The non-elect???
Sing
God doesn't give much attention to the non-elect. He left them to themselves. They are mentioned in passing only. So focus
on the elect!
Charles Page
I take that advice, I struggle with the
reprobation belief, and double predestination - my focus is the punishment the
elect receive in this life and the life to come. No one really addresses that.
Some way it seems to me that was what Jonathan
Edwards was speaking about "Sinners in the hands of an angry God" But
what was preached up to the 17th century has been so modified as to cloud any
real truths we are missing today.
Could our churches today comfort the
afflicted the way regenerate people were emotionally afflicted with Edwards
preaching? The church I attend would not know what to do with an emotional
outcry for deliverance.
They want to enrol them in Heartlife small groups meeting for an hour on Wed night!!!
Regie Rhodes
Bro. Sing, you stated, "But 'all things'
in the context refer to all those things mentioned in the rest of the chapter, even
all things involved in the predestination of the elect to eternal glory. Go and
read the rest of the chapter to convince yourself!"
I've been searching but have not found this (yet) in the Fulton Confession, but are you thinking that those words the "all things" are considering is that in Romans 8:28?
Sing
To me, the issue is very simple:
We can either take the phrase 'all things' to
mean exhaustively all things or 'all things in the context of the
predestination of the elect to eternal glory.
What does the rest of the chapter indicate?
Do you mean to say you don't read all those things relating to the predestination of the elect to eternal glory in paragraphs 3,4,5 and 6???
Regie Rhodes
I would if I could only find it. Do you know
where it is on the internet? I probably have it but don't know where it is. I
did find it in my Theophilos bible program but I never could zero in on what
part all this is in. Can you guide me to the proper place via a topic heading,
etc.? Thanks.
Regie Rhodes
Is this it - "1. God hath decreed in
Himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will,
freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever come to pass;(1) yet so as
thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any
therein;(2) nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the
liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established;(3)
in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness
in accomplishing His decree." ???? If so, the word "Whatsoever"
makes me think that it refers to more than just the context of Rom. 8:28-30.
Sing
1689.3.1 - 'God hath decreed in Himself...
1689.3.3 - By the decree of God, for the manifestation
of His glory, some men and angels are predestined, or
foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ,(7) to the
praise of His glorious grace;(8) others being left to act
in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of His
glorious justice. (9)
'All things whatsoever' is intimately
related, and is elaborated here in relation to the predestination of some men
and angels to eternal life...
1689.3.4 - These angels and men thus predestined and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished. (10)
More things concerning that predestination...
1689.3.5 - Those of mankind that are predestined to life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to His eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, hath chosen in Christ unto everlasting glory, out of His mere free grace and love, (11) without any other thing in the creature as a condition or cause moving Him thereunto. (12)
Yet more things concerning that
predestination...
1689.3.6 - As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so He hath, by the eternal and most free purpose of His will, foreordained all the means thereunto;(13) wherefore they who are elect, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ, (14) are effectually called unto faith in Christ, by His Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified, (15) and kept by His power through faith unto salvation; (16) neither are any other redeemed by Christ, or effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only. (17)
Yet many more things concerning that
predestination!
'ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER' - in context, CANNOT
possibly means 'all things exhaustively'.
'All things whatsoever' - whatsoever is needed to ensure and guarantee the eternal glorification of those predestinated!
Sing
"God hath decreed in Himself, from all
eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and
unchangeably, all things, whatsoever come to pass... in which appears His
wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His
decree...
By the decree of God, for the manifestation
of His glory, some men and angels are predestined, or foreordained to eternal
life through Jesus Christ,(7) to the praise of His glorious grace;(8) others
being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of His
glorious justice. (9)
========
'God hath decreed... His decree... by the
decree of God... some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to
eternal life through Jesus Christ..."
'ALL THINGS, WHATSOEVER' must be understood
in the context of the chapter!
