Things New and Old

Ancient truths revealed in the Scriptures are often forgotten, disbelieved or distorted, and therefore lost in the passage of time. Such ancient truths when rediscovered and relearned are 'new' additions to the treasury of ancient truths.

Christ showed many new things to the disciples, things prophesied by the prophets of old but hijacked and perverted by the elders and their traditions, but which Christ reclaimed and returned to His people.

Many things taught by the Apostles of Christ have been perverted or substituted over the centuries. Such fundamental doctrines like salvation by grace and justification have been hijacked and perverted and repudiated by sincere Christians. These doctrines need to be reclaimed and restored to God's people.

There are things both new and old here. "Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things"
2Ti 2:7.

Tuesday, November 3, 2020

Baptism: Presumption or Profession; Proxy, or Personal.

Believers' baptizo or babies' rantizo?

 https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/2162098007480
November 3, 2011 

Baptism: Presumption or Profession; Proxy, or Personal. 
These four Ps, consider them!

A baby sprinkler inquires: 
Kind sir, Why shouldn't babies be baptized? They are capable of salvation just as the adult believers....yes?

I, a believer immersionist reply:
Brother Chris, Thanks for your friendship.
Are you related to... ? I have been reading its Theological Journal for many years.

Are you asking me that question?
That's the wrong question. The right question is this - can babies give the answer of a good conscience toward God? Asking the wrong question leads one down the wrong path.

1Pet 3:21 ¶ The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

I will baptize anyone, BABIES included, who are CAPABLE of giving the answer of a good conscience toward God.

He replied:
Brother, I am indeed related to Prof..... As for baptism, do you believe babies can be saved?

I replied:
Yes, I do. Anyone can be saved. No one is beyond God's divine effectual call! Babies and old [hardened] dying adults and all in between are in the same spiritual condition - dead in trespasses and sins. God alone can effectually call them out of that state of sin and death to that of grace and eternal life.

If 'can be saved' be the ground of baptism, then on that same ground all, without distinction, ought to be baptized unless you can show beforehand that those whom you refused to baptize cannot be saved, i.e. is beyond God's irresistible grace.

The baby sprinklers are assuming that all the babies they sprinkled are saved...a wee bit presumptuous, clearly going beyond Scriptures' mandate.

And baptism is only for such who give evidence of such divine work. Submitting to baptism is the answer of a good conscience toward God - confessing to the truth of God's divine work through water baptism.

A year ago I met Brother ....  at a public meeting in Penang. I was a pleasant surprise.

He replied:
Ok...thanks for this. I really appreciate your willingness to discuss this with me, and I like the spirit of this discussion. Here is one question I have for you......baby sprinklers assume that the child is saved; adult baptizers assume that the person they are baptizing is saved. What's the difference? Both are presuming. Neither one knows the heart. They both base their baptism on a presumption. yes?

I replied: 
Believers' baptism and adult baptism are not the same.
Believers' baptizers DO NOT assume that the person they are baptizing is saved.
Believers' baptizers baptize those who profess faith in Jesus Christ, and baptism is the answer of a good conscience towards God.

I will immerse anyone, even a baby, who profess faith in Jesus Christ and want to be baptized as an answer of a good conscience towards God as a witness to the gracious work of redemption by God's free grace in Jesus Christ.

So, there is no PRESUMPTION involves in the believers' baptism.
Infant sprinklers PRESUME - that's their basis.

Believers' immersionists act on the PROFESSION of faith in Christ since baptism testifies to the death and resurrection of Christ. That's the biblical model.

Thanks.

He replied: 
Well...this is where we part ways. You claim to KNOW that a person who professes faith is sincere. That is where you and I disagree. I would assert that NO one can know that a person is sincere even if they do make a profession of true faith. All we can do is accept their profession as it is and presume they are being sincere. The same thing that a baby baptizer does when they presume the child is a believer based on the fact that the parents are believers. The biblical model is to baptize families, not individuals.

At any rate, I appreciate your discussing this with me. God prosper your ministry exceedingly. If you are ever interested in free lecture material from our seminary, please feel free to register at this site. (web address given...)

I replied:
Well... if that be the case, then it is a sincere PERSONAL profession versus sincere PROXY profession. Believers' baptizers choose the former, baby sprinklers the latter.

If the biblical model is to baptized families, then we would see thousands of families baptized on the day of Pentecost and on many other occasions before we come to Cornelius. And it is a PRESUMPTION that there are little children in Cornelius household, I have four children but my youngest is already a young adult.

So, PRESUMPTION or PROFESSION? Is it PROXY or PERSONAL?
The Lord bless you richly Brother!
It is pleasant to converse with you.