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Mr. Spurgeon makes no distinction between hell (only during the intermediate state) and the lake of fire (the eternal state after the general resurrection); no amount of preaching can deliver any man from the lake of fire. |
https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/10207672937196943
November 14, 2016
I have some serious questions about the misguided sentimentalism promoted in this meme. Do you - whether you are Arminians or Calvinists, or neither of them? How consistent is it with what you believe?
Just what do you believe the gospel ministry
accomplishes?
What is Lord's purpose in ordaining the gospel
ministry?
Give your thoughts. Thanks.
Bill Taylor
Spurgeon was a consummate CalMinian, ostensibly a Calvinist but obviously an Arminian in doctrinal beliefs. The gospel is for the proclamation of the scriptures, all of which are given by God and are profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. And all of those can only be heard by God’s people who are already alive spiritually.
J.E. Griffis
I will stand with Brother Bill. I refer to
Spurgeon as the great contradiction.
Mark Thomas
While complaining of the 'downgrade' of
doctrine amongst the Particular Baptists, it seems to me that the teachings of
Spurgeon did more to intensify the 'downgrade' than any other singular thing
that might be pointed out. No man can successfully serve 'two masters'.
James Jim Ellis
What "hell" is under consideration?
Many, or should I say most of the world's population are in a living hell.
[sing: It is obvious that Spurgeon speaks of the hell after this life on earth, not any hell on this earth.]
Bill Taylor
Amen, Bro. Jim!
Sing F Lau
"Spurgeon was a consummate CalMinian,
ostensibly a Calvinist but obviously an Arminian in doctrinal beliefs."
===========
One of the things that really opened my eyes was when I was intrigued by the fact that so many new school Calvinists, e.g. Reformed Baptists, LOVE and ADORE Spurgeon but LOATHE and ABHOR Gill, whom Spurgeon heartily owned as his mentor and had the greatest admiration.
LESSON 1: He departed from his mentor's
teaching yet oblivious of the departure.
Even so, many have departed from the Scriptures without realizing it.
PJ Walters
He also was influenced by the teachings of
Andrew Fuller.
Sing F Lau
A related meme here:
https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2016/04/far-worse-slander-lurking-right-beind.html
Daniel Hodges
The Gospel doesn't bring eternal life. It
rather brings eternal life and immortality TO LIGHT! The gospel saves the
saved! And, Paul himself didn't care about the non-elect. He even prayed that
he would be delivered from 'wicked and unreasonable men.'
Dallas Eaton II
For the most part, Spurgeon was a Calvinist. He
stated many times, that his belief followed the pattern that
"we" should preach as if everything depended on God and pray as if
everything depended on man.
I believe that was and remains a true
statement of Calvinist belief.
Spurgeon's comments on commentary, he tells
his students relating to Calvin, he was consistently and absolutely sovereign
grace where scripture declared sovereign grace, and he was consistently and
absolutely arminian (conditional) where scripture was conditional.
The problem remains, Calvinists and Arminians
are both unable to see anything but one salvation and that eternal.
Both are very different in their application. Calvin
believed in irresistible grace in regeneration, Arminius believed grace in
regeneration could be resisted and the Spirit would depart leaving the
individual in a lost condition.
Both believed total depravity and the
requirement of the operation of the Spirit prior to "belief and
repentance"
The concept of "free will" denies
total depravity altogether.
That's a very different error.
But Spurgeon was a very strong Calvinist and
believed Calvin, even Gill, would make scriptural comments that allowed for condition
(he called the responsibility of man)
The issue remains, he, as so many others,
failed to distinguish between eternal life and life more abundant
This is the message most of God's apparent
children want to believe, isn't it? That they led someone to Christ.
When I took the pastorate in Arkansas a
Sociology Professor at WKU asked me if the church had discussed their
expectations of how I would grow the church there.
I tried to explain to him it didn't work that way, but he was Lutheran, so he had the entire reformation brought to bear against what I had to say.
Dallas Eaton II
In regards to the second MeMe, who made that
name?, who are "the people"
That's an open-ended statement and supportive
of a Calvinist interpretation or any other sovereign grace body.
In the Old Testament, "the people" are usually referred to as the people of God.
I refer to all the regenerated elect as the
people of God.
Dallas Eaton II
Though it may seem like I'm a Spurgeonite,
I'm not. But I respect him because in his preacher's college he never told his
students what doctrine they must believe. He stated in his lectures that he
never turned away any student for any reason except for how he answered one
question.
What do you believe? If the answer came back that the prospective student was prepared to believe whatever he required. Then, he rejected that student and recommended he return to Sunday School until the time he was able to present himself again with conviction of what he believed the Bible teaches.
That's respectable, I think.
2 Timothy 2:6 (KJV)
The husbandman that laboureth must be first
partaker of the fruits.
Dallas Eaton II
How do you guys pronounce "meme"
I just know I'm pronouncing it wrong every
time I read it in my head and it drives me batty.
Bill Taylor
Not sure, but I think meme is pronounced
"mim."
Sing F Lau
The meme presupposes that the gospel ministry
is the instrument to deliver damned sinners from hell, and populate heaven!
Dallas Eaton II
The second? It doesn't clearly say that to
me. Is there a greater context?
Here's Paul:
19 For though I be free from all men, yet
have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that
I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I
might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without
law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might
gain them that are without law.
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might
gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might, by all means, save
some.
23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that
I might be partaker thereof with you.
Now, when I believed as a Calvin, I knew what
this presupposed to me as well.
So what is the greater context?
It is certain that Spurgeon preached Calvin,
but at the same time he defended the doctrines of grace vehemently by Often
stating that we cannot preach Jesus except we preach Sovereign Grace and that
he never ascended the pulpit hoping that anyone of their own free will would
choose Christ.
I don't know about reformed Baptists, but I know several Sov. Grace Baptists who would believe as PB's but would state it so differently that they nor PB's could fellowship.
Dallas Eaton II
Not trying to be hard to get along with. Just
talking through it. If I'm offensive let me know and I'll hush.
Sing F Lau
No, keep speaking. By "the second"
you refer to "populate heaven"?
Dallas Eaton II
No, I was asking which meme you were
referring to, first or second? I thought second, but re-reading it you may have
meant the first?
Sing F Lau
Sorry for the confusion.
Dallas Eaton II
Oh, you didn't confuse me, I've been confused
ever since that doctor thought he was slapping my bottom at birth🙃
Dallas Eaton II
Getting late here Brother Sing, tomorrow is a
workday, I'll talk to ya later, Lord willing.
Sing F Lau
I have never heard of the saying "he was
slapping my bottom at birth." What does it mean?
Dallas Eaton II
Hahah, they may not do it anymore, but it's a
practice of lightly spanking the bottom of a newborn to make him/her cry and
start breathing separated from the womb
Kinda like what we attempt to do with the gospel, but it's an uphill cause all the gospel regenerationists are forcing them to hold their breath until they manage to spank their own bottoms and the free willers force them to conceive themselves and choose to breathe.
Sing F Lau
Oh, thanks.
Dallas Eaton II
I was saying the doctor slapped me on the
head at birth and I've been confused ever since
Ricky Blair
I'm neither Calvinist nor Arminian although I
have been both. I have been a primitive Baptist for nearly 6 years and fully
expect to be for the rest of my life. It is my opinion Calvinists are confused,
even though they are usually not honest with themselves about it. I believe
Spurgeon was also confused. He claimed to believe in sovereign grace and yet
believed it was man's responsibility to populate heaven. I'm very glad to have
been saved from such confusion.
Dallas Eaton II
Amen, Agreed Brother Ricky.
Sing F Lau
Truth be told, Mr. Spurgeon played quite a
role in my theological journey. Way back towards the end of 1983, after I have
completed my first degree at the University of Sydney, I had to do a year of
practical training and write a thesis for the year's work and submit it to be
assessed to qualify to proceed to the second degree.
Before returning home to Malaysia for the practical
year, I was "moved" to visit Koorong Christian Bookshop to get some
books. I didn't have much money, so I went to the clearance section, where
books were selling cheaply at $0.50 -$2.00. I bought a few. One of the books was
"The Forgotten Spurgeon" by Iain Murray - Banner of Truth. I saw the book and asked,
"why was this beardy man forgotten?"
Reading Spurgeon led me to read his mentor
Gill... the rest is history.
One of the things that really opened my eyes was when I was intrigued by the fact that so many new school Calvinists, e.g. Reformed Baptists, LOVE and ADORE Spurgeon but LOATHE and ABHOR Gill, whom Spurgeon heartily owned as his mentor and had the greatest admiration.
The Lord's way is MYSTERIOUS. Amen.
