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| Luke 13:3 "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." What had happened to the Galileans? Likewise will happen to them except they repent! |
November
25, 2010
Alloyd inquired:
Luk
13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Sing
sir, could you expound this scripture for me? It appears to me to have eternal
consequences and to be speaking perhaps of (I would have to say make believers
or false believers) that bear no fruit. That is if you read the parable that
follows directly to illustrate our Lord's meaning. Where would that put the supposed unbelieveing elect?
Sing
F Lau
LIKEWISE...
LIKEWISE... LIKEWISE... what kind of perishing is spoken of?
Alloyd
So
if we don't repent we will die physically? yes but we will all die
likewise, read on to the parable of the tree that does not bear fruit it will be thrown in the fire surely that speaks of something other than physical death.
Sing F Lau
Alloyd,
look at the text carefully, PLEASE...
Here
is the passage:
13:1
¶ There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose
blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2
And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were
sinners above all the Galileans, because they suffered such things?
3 I
tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
What
happened... Galileans had died a cruel and humiliating death under Roman's
oppression. LIKEWISE happened in 70AD.
Concerning
the parable of the tree that does not bear fruit... do you think Christ is
expecting the dead tree to bear fruit, or do you think Christ expect living trees
to bear fruit?
Do
you think Christ expects those who have eternal life to bear spiritual fruit, or
those who are in a state of sin and death to bear fruit?
If
the latter, what kind of punishment will they get for their failure to be
fruit? Eternal punishment, or temporal punishment.
Remember
the parables were all addressed to Cod's children among the Jews.
Remember
what Peter said to them on the day of Pentecost?
"40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves
from this untoward generation."
That
generation of Jews was destined for destruction in 70AD. Apostle Peter
reminded them again in his epistles...
ANY
salvation that requires man's action CAN NOT possibly be ETERNAL salvation...
because the bestowal of eternal salvation by God's free grace is the ABSOLUTE
INDISPENSABLE PRE-REQUISITE for man to act spiritually... and in acting, he
secures TEMPORAL salvation, i.e. his well-being here in this present life.
If you understand the last statement, you are on a sound first base.
Alloyd
I
understand the last statement. But let's back up a bit; nobody said the tree is
dead! You don't fertilise dead trees! now if you say then it is speaking of the
elect it can't be because he says after fertilising it if it doesn't bear fruit
then it's off to the fire.
Sing F Lau
Ok,
let's forget about the tree. The parable is about PEOPLE.
What
kind of people?
Do
you fertilize those dead in trespasses and sin? if you do, how do you do that?
Isn't it true that only the living can be fertilized... and only the living can be
expected to produce fruit?
Fruitlessness
is in the context of the living. Spiritual fruit can only be expected from
spiritually alive people. It is the spiritually alive people that have the real
problem of being unfruitful.
Fruitlessness
is NEVER a problem associated with those dead in trespasses and sins.
All the above are basic and common sense.
Sing F Lau
Yes,
they will perish in a like manner... LIKEWISE... LIKEWISE... LIKEWISE... in
bloody and humiliating death in the hands of the Romans! Get the point!
Alloyd
So
everybody who doesn't repent will die a bloody physical death. Hmmmn! really? Oh
except the believing and unbelieving elect, of course, cos they can do as they
please.
Sing F Lau
Please
remember the context... context... context of those words spoken to some
particular Jews in a particular situation inquiring about some particular
issue.
If you want to draw a lesson, then it would be this: unbelief will bring its ill consequences.
Alloyd
but
to who? surely not the elect.
Sing F Lau
What
to who? Please explain.
Alloyd
@
If
you want to draw a lesson, then it would be this: unbelief will bring its
ill consequences.
Not
the elect though.
Sing
F Lau
Oh
yes, for the elect!
The
elect is not exempted from ill consequences in this life. Scourging and
chastisement are the lots of God's disobedient children! Unbelieving children of God among the Jews will likewise perish in the hand of the Romans in 70AD. It has nothing to do with eternal salvation.
6
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he
receiveth.
7
If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he
whom the father chasteneth not?
8
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye
bastards, and not sons.
Alloyd
ok
thanks.
