 |
Mark 9:41 "For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward." Matthew 25:37 ¶Then
shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and
fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?... Those ministering to the least of Christ's brethren receive their REWARD! "Because you have done this... this... this... to the least of these My brethren, go into life eternal." Eternal
salvation is solely and wholly by God's free grace alone,
A
biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology. |
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Swoony
shared his thoughts:
Parables
have a message, so I keep that simple rule in mind. To put more to the parable
can be conflicting with other clear passages. So, are the goats saints, are
they justified? That's why I don't dare go so far as to say God pronounced them
cursed and wicked and later pardon them. Did God not say thy sins I remember
them no more? I believe the secret things belong to God, who these goats are to
be treated as such, God will judge them. How God judge is up to Him. But the
message of terrible judgment in hell is taught in Bible.
=========
(We
were discussing the sheep and goats in Matthew 25)
Brother
Swoony,
Thank
you for your written words; they are easier to interact with.
Let
me leave you with some thoughts.
1.
@ Parables have a message, so I keep that simple rule in mind. To put more to
the parable can be conflicting with other clear passages.
a.
Each parable indeed has a clear message. The three parables in Mt 25 are
classic examples.
-
The wise and the foolish virgins of the One Bridegroom,
-
The faithful and the slothful/wicked servants of the One Master, and
-
The ministering and the non-ministering ones in the one flock of the One
Shepherd.
The
wise virgins, the faithful servants, and the ministering ones are all blessed
by their actions.
The
foolish virgins, slothful/wicked servants, and the non-ministering ones are all
judged/cursed by their actions too.
Each
has a clear message; there is no ambiguity at all.
This
is keeping the simple rule in mind… but it doesn’t seem acceptable to you!
Not
keeping this simple rule in mind will turn each parable into a fertile ground
for wild imaginations and speculations; adding ideas foreign to the simple
message of the parable will bring them ("ideas") into conflict with
the other clear passages of the Scriptures.
2.
@ So are the goats saints? are they justified? That's why I don't dare go so
far as to say God pronounced them cursed and wicked and later pardon them. Did
God not say thy sins I remember them no more?
a.
So are the goats saints? are they justified?
-
The goats are saints in their status, and their standing; they have been
effectually called out of and separated from their native state of condemnation,
death, and alienation to that of grace and salvation in Jesus Christ, i.e.
justified, regenerated, and adopted.
-
This is eternal salvation, the VITAL aspect of salvation at the effectual
calling, eternal salvation APPLIED. Yes, the goats are vitally justified;
Christ’s righteousness has been applied to them. How else could they be among
the one flock of the Shepherd?
-
The same is true with the foolish virgins and the slothful/wicked servants.
Some
have a vague idea of the distinction between eternal salvation and temporal
salvation; similarly, with the 5-facets of salvation. However, they don’t seem
to know how to apply those wonderful truths in aiding them to rightly divide
the word of truth.
But
the goats are NO saints in their conduct, walking! They DID NOT do what the
Lord expected of them - ministering to the least of His brethren; they fail to
minister to Christ's people. This is the practical part of salvation. When we
intermix the temporal and the eternal, we end up with confusion and contradictions.
b.
“… God pronounced them cursed and wicked and later pardon them “
-
Be careful, Swoony. The Lord DID NOT pronounce them cursed, i.e. He did not
curse them. He DID call them “ye cursed” – i.e. that's what they are, cursed
ones. The word “cursed” is a participle, a verbal noun, NOT a verb of the
Lord’s action of cursing them. It’s easy to check with the BlueLetterBible.
-
They are called the cursed ones BECAUSE their very own conduct of NOT doing
what the Lord expected of them has brought the curse of the punishment upon
them. This is temporal judgment; the eternal judgment has been completely borne
by Christ alone.
-
There is no need for any pardon later. God has pardoned once and for all –
LEGALLY at the cross, and VITALLY at the effectual calling of each elect to
grace and salvation in Jesus Christ, when the righteousness of Christ is
applied to each individual elect personally.
-
LATER ON, i.e. AFTER the intermediate state, there is only the resurrection to
eternal glory.
c.
Did God not say thy sins I remember them no more?
-
He sure did!
-
Heb 8:12 “For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and
their iniquities will I remember no more.”
-
Heb 10:17 “And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.”
-
Wonderful words of assurance! If these precious words are understood in the
context of eternal salvation, then they are rightly understood; for those to
whom these words are said, their eternal salvation from the lake of fire is
immutably assured and certain.
-
Christ has perfectly dealt with all the sins of all His people; therefore,
their sins and iniquities will God remember no more! AMEN.
-
But if the words are understood in the context of temporal salvation, violence
is done to many other passages of Scriptures that speak of the sore wrath of
God against His stiff-necked disobedience people, and His solemn warnings to His
disciples about the REALITY of hell in the intermediate state. (Don't confuse hell in the intermediate state with the lake of fire in the eternal state after the general resurrection.)
-
Mat 10:28 “And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the
soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”
-
Heb 10:31 “It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”
Some
giddy-headed folks will dismiss these solemn passages by asking rhetorically,
“Didn’t God say, thy sins I remember them no more?” Others would say, “Didn’t
your Bible say, For God so loved….?”
3.
@ I believe the secret things belong to God, who the goats are is to be treated
as such, God will judge them. How God judge is up to Him. But the message of
terrible judgment in hell is taught in Bible.
a.
Yes, the secret things belong to God. We are not talking about any secret
things. We are exegeting what is plainly written there in the parable about
sheep and goats of the One Shepherd, their conduct, and the corresponding blessings
and the judgment their conduct called forth.
-
The Scriptures have plainly stated what happened to them; God’s judgment is
already spelt out; it’s no secret thing. Why would God keep such a matter
secret? His children need to know the matter urgently.
Mat
25:46 “And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous
into life eternal.”
-
“… INTO everlasting punishment…. INTO life eternal…” BOTH are on the basis of
their conduct. From the present state of time INTO the intermediate state; then, from the intermediate state INTO the eternal state after the general resurrection at the end of time.
-
Anything based upon the conduct of God’s people are in the realm of TEMPORAL
salvation/judgment.
-
The intermediate state of paradise (indicated by “life eternal”, NOT eternal
life!) and the intermediate state of hell (indicated by “everlasting
punishment”, not the lake of fire!) is in the realm of temporal
salvation/judgment. "Everlasting" - last till the end of time.
b.
“But the message of terrible judgment in hell is taught in Bible.”
-
Amen, and amen. That's a good statement.
-
Pray tell, to whom is the message of terrible judgment in hell ADDRESSED in the
Bible?
-
For what purpose if it is addressed to the non-elect? For e.g. what’s the use
of warning the dead that arsenic is deadly?
-
For what purpose if it is addressed to God’s children?
-
Is the terrible judgment in hell and being cast into the lake of fire one and
the same?
2Ti
2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.
========
Mark
9:41 "For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name,
because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his
reward."
Matthew
25:40 "And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you,
Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have
done it unto me."
Those
ministering to the least of Christ's brethren receive their REWARD!
"Because you did this... this... this... go into life eternal."
The parable of sheep and goats is in the context of temporal salvation; receiving the reward for ministering to the least of Christ's brethren, and punishment for failing to do so.
