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| Proverbs 4:20 My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings. |
June
19, 2012
https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/3394819064736
Those
shameless gospel regenerationists!
When
will they come to their senses and stop lying?
Even
common sense demands that regeneration must logically, necessarily and
inevitably precede conversion.... and sometimes a long time prior!
It
is common sense that preaching takes time... and hearing takes time... and
understanding takes time... and believing takes time too. Without prior
regeneration, there would be no hearing of spiritual things, no understanding
of spiritual things... and therefore NO CONVERSION to the spiritual things.
There
are endless biblical examples: consider the multitudes of DEVOUT Jews from
every nation under heaven who came to Jerusalem to WORSHIP the LORD and were
CONVERTED on the day of Pentecost... consider the Ethiopian eunuch, then
Cornelius, then Lydia, etc, etc...
Apostle
Paul stated plainly that the preaching of the gospel comes to them that ARE
SAVED... those whom God HAS SAVED... and ONLY such can receive the gospel as
the good news that declares the power of
God has saved them.
But
so many presumptuous and deluded preachers insist that the Holy Spirit
regenerates through their preaching. They claim that they are involved in the
work of regeneration through their preaching... that Jesus Christ gives eternal
life through their preaching! BLASPHEMY is the only proper word to describe
such a delusional claim!
Those
shameless gospel regenerationists! They are not content in their calling to
CONVERT God's children born of God Himself... they insist on their vital role in
assisting God to FATHER God's children! Brazen usurpers!
And
they LIE through their teeth that they still preach and teach eternal salvation
by free grace alone... even though all along they insist that without their
work of preaching there would be no regeneration... therefore no salvation!
They
should just be honest and say that eternal salvation is CONDITIONED upon their
work of preaching, and their hearers' work of believing!
=========
16
Comments
Dellis
So
true, I thought it was common knowledge that one cannot respond to His call
except that one has a spiritual nature so that he understands and believes the
ONE who is calling.
sing
Gospel
regenerationists would rant and rave that regeneration precedes faith... they
would readily admit that... BUT STILL, they would insist that without their work
of preaching, there would be no regeneration by God!
Dellis
Now
you have me puzzled and interested. what am I missing about Romans 1:16 and the
following verses? Man taking the credit?
sing
So
sorry to puzzle you.
Rom
1:16 is very interesting... do you have any questions?
Please
ask specifically.
May
I draw your CAREFUL attention to something please?
Please
note very carefully that Apostle Paul writes to those in Rome who are ALREADY
the ‘called of Jesus Christ’, ‘beloved of God,’ and ‘called saints’. Such are found
among ALL nations (ethnesin- from which we get ‘ethnic’), i.e. among all people
groups. Apostle Paul is writing to such in Rome.
-
His apostleship/apostolic ministry is intended for those whom he describes as
‘the called of Jesus Christ,’ ‘beloved of God,’ and ‘called saints.’ God is
their Father, and Jesus Christ is Lord over them.
-
Therefore Apostle Paul’s writing to these people must never be understood as
teaching them HOW they can become the ‘called of Jesus Christ’, ‘beloved of
God,’ ‘saints,’ and children of God.
-
They ALREADY are such… and BECAME such without and before the hearing of the
gospel. see 15:20.
-
The popular lie of ‘gospel regeneration’, i.e. gospel preaching is the
necessary prerequisite for regeneration is repudiated by the plain testimony of
Scriptures.
The
gospel ministry is ordained, and intended for such... 'called of Jesus Christ’,
‘beloved of God,’ and ‘called saints’.
And
Apostle Paul is desirous to preach the gospel to them!!!
Gospel regeneration is a plain FABLE!
Dellis
I
also wanted to include :1 Corinthians 1:21 "For
after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased
God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."
Still,
the only ones who will answer the call are the ones who are regenerated before
they hear the gospel, right? ie. salvation regeneration does not occur upon the
hearing of the word/gospel.
sing
Good
point. But very many cannot even rightly divide the eternal salvation that
comes by the sovereign acts of God ALONE, from the temporal salvation (that
which pertains to the well-being of God's children in the life here and now)
that is conditioned upon human activities... like preaching,
hearing, understanding, and believing and obeying!!!
A biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology... which is why Paul COMMANDED Timothy to rightly divide the word of truth.
Dellis
You
are right and I see where you are coming from. What you just described is
something I have come to understand as things that pertain to our relationship
with God which is eternal and our fellowship with God which is based on our
obedience to Him.
sing
One
is sonship by the gracious activities of God, and the other is discipleship by
His children. Both the Calvinists and their despised Arminian cousins are
ignorant of this basic distinction and get themselves into big mess.
Sonship
is by the pure and free grace of God alone in Jesus Christ through His Spirit,
and is logically, necessarily and inevitably prior to discipleship. Sonship has
to do with the BEING of a child of God; discipleship is the WELL BEING of a child
of God.
The old school baptists understood this simple and basic truth.
Charles
Page
Sing, does Kerry Culligan understand and agree with your position? Previously I have argued with him on the subject of particular atonement and found him to be more of a reformed bro rather than a sovereign grace bro. Anyway, he deleted me.
Dellis
Sing
F Lau, I'm having a little trouble with a Calvinist not understanding this since it was there that I became aware of it. We have always believed that
regeneration precedes faith and being so, does agree with the Sonship and
discipleship concept. This is the same as I presented to you as relationship and
fellowship, only the words used are different yet the concept is
synonymous. Perhaps because of our differences of origin. I'm just a southern
redneck from Mississippi and you are in the far east. Perhaps the verbiage is
different yet the meaning is the same. I hold to the doctrine of the bible, yet
seem to lean towards Calvinism as far as the way Spurgeon presented it. To me,
he was an old-time Baptist, then again the Apostle Paul was too! If I was a staunch Calvinist, we would not be discussing the things I inquired about. I would
have just written you off because it looked like we disagreed. But from what I
have read in many of your previous posts, we have too much in common to part
ways. You are my brother and I have been edified much by your input. Thanks for
the gracious fellowship you offer.
sing
Charles
Page, I don't know. One has called me a heretic and then deleted me.
A
certain Nathaniel Diaz wrote, "Sing, you are a heretic for your denial of
the doctrine of Sola Fide, and I will have nothing to do with the likes of
you."
And
because truth is intimately intertwined, Sola Fide and Gospel Regeneration are
twin brothers.
The
PROUD and HAUGHTY and OBTUSE Calvinists rightly insist that regeneration
precedes faith... but they cannot see that justification before God precedes
BOTH regeneration and faith... thus ending with these ridiculous and STUPID (i.e lacking common sense!) contradictions.
Can
you imagine a regenerated man that is not yet justified by God, i.e. that is
still under the condemnation of death, still without the righteousness of
Christ applied to him...
If
only those BLIND Calvinists learn the truth that there are DISTINCT aspects of
justification, they will admit how very foolish is the idea of 'sola fide'!
Faith
is a fruit and effect of justification... it is the justified that shall live
by faith!!!
The
JUST shall live by faith...
Ro
1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as
it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Ga
3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is
evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Heb
10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall
have no pleasure in him.
'Sola
Fide' insists the opposite... i.e. by faith the condemned (i.e. the
unjustified) is justified by God!
sing
Dellis
Layne Worsham Sr., Press a Calvinist hard enough, and you will find the arminian
blood flowing in him... for they are both gospel regenerationists to the
core... even though the Calvinists will give lip service to regeneration
precedes faith they will insist that regeneration takes place when there is
preaching, just like the Arminians.
The Calvinists condemned me as a heretic for rejecting their 'gospel regeneration' and 'sola fide' fables!
Dellis
It's
hard to tell by your post whether you are mocking me or not, but I'll go
with the contrary. Lip service is a curse word to me as, even though it took a
while before coming to the understanding of regeneration preceding faith, it is
not only clear to me now and found impossible to disprove in the work of
salvation by the believer. I get the idea that you are alluding to a way in
which people are actually saved without ever hearing the gospel message. It has
been a subject of many a debate. Regeneration and the gift of faith can come at
separate times as Faith cometh by hearing but one must believe what he is
hearing before it can have any converting power at all. A person must be a
spiritual being, which has nothing to do with hearing before he can receive
the engrafted word.
Dellis
Another
thing that puzzles me is the way you put Calvinists and Arminians in the same
group. As one believes salvation is given once and for all and the other says
that works are involved in their salvation. The salvation of anyone is evident to
God sometimes long before it is evident to the believer himself. Yet it would
appear, by reading about the life of David, you would think David knew he was
saved all his life, and in reality, he was. Arminians claim to be regenerated
after they repent while Calvinists claim the regeneration must happen before one
can or will repent.
sing
Brother Dellis, mocking you??????? Why would I do that???????
What
I wrote is about the Calvinists that I have interacted with; no reference to
you.
Calvinists
and Arminians may differ in many ways... but they are the same when it comes to
gospel regeneration and justification by faith alone.
