 |
| "... not for any thing wrought in them." A70
“justifying faith is a saving grace WROUGHT in them.” A72 |
What
would be your answer to the same question?
Your
thought would be most appreciated.
Brethren,
I read this question and answer (Westminster Larger Catechism) in an article on
justification. What
do you think of the answer? Is something quite jarring?
Thank you.
========
Q.
71 How is justification an act of His free grace?
A.
Although Christ, by His obedience and death, did make a proper, real, and full
satisfaction to God’s justice in the behalf of them that are justified; yet
inasmuch as God accepts the satisfaction from a surety, which He might have demanded
of them, and did provide this surety, His own only Son, imputing His
righteousness to them, and requiring nothing of them for their justification
but faith, which also is His gift, their justification is to them of free
grace.
========
48
Comments
Elbert
Amen
you got it
Sing
Elbert, Amen to what, and who got what?
Honest
questions. Thanks.
Micah
Because
justification cannot take place upon any individual apart from election and
regeneration which we are passive in and undeserving. I would agree at face
value. Faith is related to us as an equivalent to regeneration. So all the
justified possess faith, therefore the statement from Romans “it is of faith
that it might be by grace” affirms that faith and grace are both necessary to
the security of the elect this being inseparable from justification.
Sing
Micah @ "Because justification cannot take place upon any individual apart from
election and regeneration..."
======
Is
regeneration by the Spirit logically before justification?
Besides
face value, what other value do you see?
Micah
Sing
regeneration and justification both are referred to in Rm 8:29-30. The order is
irrelevant but both are necessary to each other. In the specific text, calling
(regeneration) takes place first as written but I do not believe it is orderly
dependent.
As
it is written I agree.
Micah
The
reason I say as written is because I don’t know further intentions of the
writer. I make a distinction between the gift of faith or possession
(regeneration) and the profession of faith (Christian obedience) . He makes no
distinction so as written I agree, further information may cause me to
disagree.
Sing
Micah @ "regeneration
and justification both are referred to in Rm 8:29-30."
=====
Do
you understand the call equivalent to/same as regeneration?
Sing
"Faith
is related to us as an equivalent to regeneration.."
=====
Please
explain further. Thank
you.
Hazel
Not
a bad answer if you leave out the “but faith which also is His gift.” In the
eyes of God, we are justified by the blood, in the eyes of others we are
justified by our works, and it’s is by our faith that we are able see our own
justification.
Sing
What
is the issue with those 7 words?
Thank
you.
Mark
The
jarring words are “but faith”. There is no ‘but’ in free grace. The only faith
involved in justification before God is the faithfulness of the Surety - Christ
Jesus.
The implication of the answer supplied above involves the faith of the sinner which amounts to a destruction of grace -jarring indeed - and dead wrong.
Sing
Mark
I'm relieved I hear a SOUND PB speaking. THANK YOU, Sir. THANK YOU.
Mark
Sing,
you are most welcome, Sir.
Sing
Thou
art a sharpshooter; just one bullet and got the job done... others waste
endless bullets.
Mark
Sing,
the scriptural distinctions between justification before God and justification
within the framework of one’s own conscience or justification before others is
a hallmark of sound theology. All lovers of free grace should be careful to
make those distinctions.
Sing
Amen.
Gunsmithing makes a sharp man.
Jim
Mark
amen!
Dan
Faith
is not a CONDITION of the covenant; faith is a PROVISION of the covenant.
The
statement, "requiring nothing of them for their justification but
faith" is a contradiction. It takes the form of "requiring nothing
but something." That faith is God-given does not resolve the matter. This
is a common error of many in the "Reformed" camp, IMO. Those who regularly
trumpet "Justification by faith" and explain it as above, find
themselves hogtied in logical contradictions. Setting some of their beliefs
alongside one another makes the problem apparent:
1.
Eternal salvation is monergistic.
2.
Faith is the gift of God.
3.
The exercise of faith is required for justification.
4.
There is no eternal salvation without justification.
5.
The exercise of faith is synergistic. "God does not believe for you."
(RC Sproul)
Those
affirmations cannot be reconciled. If salvation is monergistic, and the
exercise of faith is required for justification, and justification is required
for eternal salvation, and the exercise of faith is synergistic, then eternal
salvation is likewise synergistic by logical consequence, which destroys the
first affirmation. THIS is among the most glaring errors "Reformed"
theology.
When
confronted with this observation, it has been my experience that many of our
"Reformed" brethren resort to "Hyper-Monergism" by
insisting that our exercise of faith is a "monergistic act of God"
citing the precepts of Absolutism in favor of that ludicrous notion. I won't
belabor the argument against that here, but simply repeat the following:
Faith
is not a CONDITION of the covenant; faith is a PROVISION of the covenant.
The gospel declares the justification of God's people at Calvary, not the conditional justification of people provided they believe it. Apart from pre-existing justification, faith has nothing upon which to lay hold. It follows that when properly defined by the bible, "justification by faith" intends that "faith is the evidence of things not seen - namely the preceding justification of one by Christ at Calvary and the preceding regeneration that gave the capacity to believe." It does NOT intend that, "Man is not justified by Christ's blood UNTIL he exercises faith" as the "Reformed" so commonly promote.
Subrina
Amen,
absolutely
Jamie
From
Keach’s Baptist Catechism (1693) -
Q.
37. What is justification? A.
Justification is an act of God's free grace, wherein He pardons all our sins,
and accepts us as righteous in His sight, only for the righteousness of Christ
imputed to us, and received by faith alone. (Rom. 3:24; Eph. 1:7; 2 Cor. 5:21;
Rom. 5:19; Phil. 3:9; Gal. 2:16)
Mark
Jamie, if he meant received by personal experience within our conscience by
faith alone, I could agree. If justification before God is meant, it is by the
faithfulness of Christ alone and the faith of the sinner plays absolutely no
part.
Jamie
Mark,
agree with him or not, this is what Baptists generally believed in the late
1600s. Now, that doesn’t make them right. And it doesn’t make them wrong. I
posted it mainly for its historical value, to see what old Baptists taught.
Mark
Jamie, I suggest you read ‘Justification by Christ Alone’ by Samuel
Richardson in the late 1600’s and especially the foreword by William Kiffen to
better understand what the Particular Baptists taught and believed on this
interesting topic.
Jamie
Mark,
I have read it actually. Richardson might have also been a universalist. (Not
that that was typical of Baptists back then - just an interesting note.)
Many
of my favorite writers are from the 1600s. Tobias Crisp (not a Baptist) is a
solid writer from that century when it comes to justification. His sermons were
collected in a set called “Christ Alone Exalted” edited by John Gill.
Sing
Jamie "The reason why any are justified is not because they have faith;
but the reason why they have faith is because they are justified."
In
a Circular Letter on Justification issued by the Philadelphia Baptist
Association - the first and the most influential Baptist Association of
Particular Baptist churches in North America - to all its member churches in
Oct 1785. The link to the whole Letter is pasted below.
I
quote a short and pertinent paragraph here:
"Third.
Our justification is by some ascribed to faith as an instrumental cause.
Strictly speaking, we apprehend faith as no cause at all in this momentous
procedure, but rather AN EFFECT. It is true, the scriptures frequently mention
a justification by faith. By such expressions it is evident the object, and not
the act, of faith is designed; the object of faith is Christ and his
righteousness; this the believing soul lays fast hold on. Faith is the eye
which discovers, the hand which receives; espying a Saviour's worth, charmed
with his merit, the believer is so enraptured as to cast away all his heavy
burden, falls at Messiah's feet, confides in the promise, and pleads atoning
blood: "With the heart man believeth unto righteousness," Rom. x. 10.
It is beautifully noticed by one of our very first and most orthodox writers.
"The reason why any are justified is not because they have faith; but the
reason why they have faith is because they are justified."
https://pruning-deformed-branches.blogspot.com/2008/01/justification-circular-letter-in-1785.html Justification
- A Circular Letter in 1785
PRUNING-DEFORMED-BRANCHES.BLOGSPOT.COM
Joshua
Jamie, John Gill’s chapter on Justification in Body of Doctrinal Divinity is
also a must-read for Particular Baptist history. Really good chapter.
Jamie
To
be clear, I affirm the doctrine of justification from eternity.
My
comment in this thread was a quote from Benjamin Keach’s Catechism, which I
thought relevant because the OP quotes from the Westminster.
I
am under the impression that the Keach quote was taken as an argument against
justification from eternity, which is not how it was intended. As I said, I
posted it for the sake of historical interest.
If
anyone disagrees with what Keach wrote (or was William Collins the main
author?), that’s fine. He’s not infallible, but the Catechism had wide usage
among Baptists in both England and Colonial America, so it cannot be shrugged
off as an anomaly.
Keach wrote a short treatise on justification, which I haven’t read in a while, but I seem to remember it was against the neonomianism of Baxter.
Sing
Tell
us, what's justification from eternity?
Thank
you.
Jamie
Sing, take a look at these:
https://www.pristinegrace.org/media.php?id=354
https://mountzionpbc.org/Justification/John%20Brine%201732%20Eternal%20Justification-MZ-1%20.pdf
Sing
Jamie, Thanks for the link to Gill's article. I have studied it.
Pristine
Grace! I had exchanges with Mr. Brandan Kraft - an Absoluter.
https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2019/07/anything-but-pristine.html,
Anything
but Pristine : THINGS-NEW-AND-OLD.BLOGSPOT.COM
Jamie
Sing
Then you’ve heard of the doctrine of justification from eternity before. Did
you get the pdf of John Brine’s book?
Sing
Jamie, I have found that different people understand eternal justification
differently; the majority have no clue what is meant; they go ballistic hearing the
term.
Sing
Mr Brine said, "This doctrine has been fully ftated, and ftrongly defended,
by Mr Gill..."
I
read up to that page. Thanks.
Jamie
Sing
those letters that look like “f” are long versions of the letter s.
Maybe
you know that and just making a joke. I just wanted to point that out because I
know it does confuse some people.
Sing
I'm
used to them.
Sing
Justification
is an act of God's free grace, wherein He pardons all our sins, and accepts us
as righteous in His sight, only for the righteousness of Christ imputed to us,
and received by faith alone. (Rom. 3:24; Eph. 1:7; 2 Cor. 5:21; Rom. 5:19;
Phil. 3:9; Gal. 2:16)
------
The
imputation of Christ's righteousness, being an act of God's free grace,
necessarily precede - both logically and chronological - and is independent of
man's act of receiving it by faith alone.
This
is vastly different from the words "... and requiring nothing of them for
their justification but faith..."
In
addition, the answer to Question 70 already EXCLUDED faith from the equation of
justification by the free grace of God.
Q.
70 What is justification?
A.
Justification is an act of God’s free grace unto sinners, in which He pardons
all their sins, accepts and accounts their persons righteous in His sight; not
for any thing wrought in them, or done by them, but only for the perfect
obedience and full satisfaction of Christ, by God imputed to them, and received
by faith alone.
Faith
is a saving grace WROUGHT in them...
"...
not for anything wrought in them..." has excluded faith from God's free and
gracious act of justifying the condemned.
Mark
Amen!
