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| Mat 27:52 "And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose..." This is the first resurrection. |
https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/10200999453124012
November
17, 2013
First
death, second death...
I
may sound silly. Still, I need to ask... I'm already notorious for asking
questions.
Please
help me with some light. Thank you in advance.
Q1.
What is the first death - death in Adam, or death at the end of life?
Q2.
Now the second death - when does/did it happen to a man? judgment at death at
the end of life, or judgment on resurrection day?
Re
20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such
the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ,
and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Concerning
Rev 20:6...
Q3.
The reigning with him a thousand years: is the reign with Christ BEFORE or
AFTER the second death?
Q4.
Does "on such the second death hath no power" imply no such
exemption from the power of the first death?
Q5.
What is the power of the first death?
-
Can such a man (those in Q4) do anything to avoid it?
Any
comment which can shed light to the above inquiry is very welcome.
======
17
Comments
Josiah
Lau
Very
pointed questions, dad, I'm just thinking that besides the answer to Q4 being a
"Yes" - that it does have that implication - 'hath part in the first
resurrection' also implies that one has died the first death. One can't be
resurrected unless one is dead.
Josiah
Lau
But
I went off the point in my answer above... sorry. If your question goes toward
to an implied non-exemption then it's a different one altogether.
Charles
Page
1)
death of Adam, we all die a natural death 2) 2nd death on
resurrection/judgment day 3) before the second death 4) no one is exempted
from the power of the first death 5) death Hell and the grave is the power of
the first death and no you can't d… See more
Sing
F Lau
Thanks, Josiah... I need a good sounding board to assist me to think.
"on
such the second death hath no power"
======
On
such that the second death has power, they end up in the lake of fire.
So,
the questions:
On
such that the first death has power, where do they end up with?
On
such that the first death has NO power, where do they end up with?
Josiah
Lau
Dad, I have been thinking a bit and here're some of my struggles with the chapter...
(a
bit different from your line of thought)
At
first, I thought the first death is death in Adam. We all died that first death
in Adam. Our physical death is, I think, just a symbol for that.
Similarly,
when we talk about Christ dying for our sins, Christ’s physical death never
mattered. Christ shedding blood was like the shedding of the blood of animals, the
figure of the actual death that he died for in our place – the spiritual death
that is being forsaken by the Father, separation from God. The death that
Christ died that saved us was Him taking our sins upon Himself and suffering the
wrath of, and separation from, God. (Maybe related to this is how we see the
Lord's Supper as a symbol, not literally 'this is my body'.)
Also,
Enoch and Elijah never died the physical death but were taken up to glory. They
would not have gone through the first resurrection if we understand that
resurrection to be physical.
If
death (assuming this is the first one) passed on all men through Adam, then
Enoch and Elijah are part of that death, and this cannot include the physical
death. Additionally, if we take 1 Thess 4:16-17 to have happened before this
juncture, there will also be those Christians who are still alive and are
caught up into the clouds. These also will not undergo the physical
resurrection.
I'm
curious to know whether you understand verse 1 onwards to be talking about
Jesus Christ and the beginning of the gospel age. If that is the correct
understanding (and pardon me if not) then that would explain why verse 5 says
'this is the first resurrection' because everything flows from verse 1 where
Jesus Christ defeats the devil in the first resurrection and brings everyone
from dead back to life (in the legal sense)
So I would (at least preliminarily, with my limited understanding) conclude that the first death speaks of Adam's death, the first resurrection speaks of our salvation in Christ, and the second death is judgment day.
Sing
F Lau
What
is the first resurrection? Most relate it to regeneration! And they quote John
5:25,28 to validate their idea.
25
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead
shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live... 28
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the
graves shall hear his voice.
The
two verses are saying the same thing!!! See the parallels:
-
"the hour is coming..." in both verses.
-
"the dead shall hear..." "in the graves shall hear"
-
"the voice of the Son of God..."
Why
can't it be a true and literal resurrection, as indicated here...
Verse
28 reminds me of Mt 27
51
And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the
bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53
And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city,
and appeared unto many.
And
this: Rev 20
4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:
and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and
for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image,
neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they
lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were
finished. This is the first resurrection.
I'm beginning to think that "the rest of the dead" here refers to the dead of God's children who were not resurrected in that FIRST RESURRECTION!!!
Charles
Page
is
this in reference to 70 AD? interesting!
Sing
F Lau
John
5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the
dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live...
=======
If
this is made to speak of regeneration, the necessary implication is that PRIOR
to this there was NO regeneration.
If
this refers to literal resurrection, it was fulfilled a little while shortly at
Christ's own resurrection.
Is this valid?
Sing
F Lau
John
5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in
the graves shall hear his voice.
======
If
this is made to refer to the resurrection at Christ's return, then the time
frame "for the hour is coming" is entirely out of place. Something
which is a few thousand years into the future cannot possibly be referred to
in such an imminent time frame.
But some will retort with 2Pe 3:8 "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." Sound bytitis is not an uncommon disease!
Sing
F Lau
Thanks,
Josiah. Your point on the substitutionary death of Christ is interesting. You
are right, it is not so much the physical aspect - else the redeemed wouldn't
need to undergo physical death... rather it is being eternally forsaken by God,
i.e. cast into the lake of fire.
Therefore only those whose names were not written in the book of life were cast into the lake of fire!
Sing
F Lau
Q1.
What is the first death - death in Adam, or death at the end of life?
Charles:
1) death of Adam , we all die a natural death.
Q1a:
What about that statement in Hebrews: "And as it is appointed unto men
once to die, but after this the judgment." Heb 9:27
Please tell, which death is this spoken of?
Charles
Page
I
am at a loss for an answer! I have been raised with the belief this was our end of
life death. then would come our judgment but that was then...
Sing
F Lau
The
first resurrection was as real and literal as the second resurrection will be.
The
first took place together with Christ's real and literal resurrection... Mt
27:51-53.
Charles
Page
v53
after His resurrection
what
am I missing about Heb 9:27?
Sing
F Lau
The
FIRST resurrection occurred right after Christ's resurrection...
Those
resurrected in Mt 27:53 are referred to in Rev 20:4-6!
The first death is death at the end of life;
The second
death at the great judgment.
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" - necessary means the death spoken of is still future with respect to a man who is living... i.e death at the end of his life.
Charles
Page
how
do you make this connection of Mt 27:53 to Rv 20:4-6 not questioning the belief
just curious about how you made this connection. Good morning!
Sing
F Lau
Q1.
What is the first death? Ans:
Death at the end of one's life on earth
Q2.
Now the second death - when does/did it happen to a man?
Re
20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such
the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ,
and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Concerning
Rev 20:6...
Q3.
The reigning with him a thousand years: is the reign with Christ BEFORE or
AFTER the second death?
Q4.
Does "on such the second death hath no power" implies no such
exemption from the power of the first death?
Q5.
What is the power of the first death?
-
Can such a man (those in Q4) do anything to avoid it?
