 |
Its necessary implication: whosoever was found written And
the sea gave up the dead which were in it; |
https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/2136468006746
October
25, 2011
Here
is something for you to think about:
'Many
of God's children go to hell.'
'But
none of God's children go to the lake of fire.'
Are
these statements true?
Give
your thought-through comments.
Michael
lake
of fire is definitely eternal punishment but hell is not that, right? but what does it mean?
Sing
Can
you explain what that means, please?
Michael
Please
help to explain further or else I think hell and lake of fire mean the same
thing.
[One Matthew made many comments but deleted them all!]
Sing
So
what does 'lowest part of the earth' has to do with 'hell'?
What
does 'the lowest part of the earth' mean in Ps 139?
Michael
errr,
u can quote from scripture...but also write in plain English aka easier to
understand...my mind is young and not complex
Michael
okie
guys..make it simple...do write in this format for the meaning
lake
of fire - eternal punishment
hell - <please fill in the blank>
Sing
So,
please get back to the subject.
Matthew,
your first comment has diverted the discussion off the subject <LOL>
See how easy to go off tangent?
Michael
wah..it
seems hell is used in two contexts... same as the word "world" rite?
Sing
Mar
9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter
into life maimed, than having two hands to go into *hell*, into the fire that
never shall be quenched: <<< Here it means lake of fire.
=========
Please
tell us who was Jesus addressing when he said these words?
Will
such end up in hell?
Will
such end up in the lake of fire?
Is
'the fire that shall never be quenched' the same as the lake of fire?
Is
there anyone in the lake of fire now?
Sing
Brother
Michael, follow along, ask questions and make comments. We are learning
Scriptures together!
Sing
'If
this is not eternal, why the words: worm dieth not?'
----------
Do
the words 'worm dieth not' mean they are eternal???
The
worm dies not with respect to who? To those being eaten up - that's all it
means. Nothing eternal about it! Unless of course, you believe in eternal worms!
Who
are those addressed?
Are
they in danger of hell?
Are
they in danger of the lake of fire?
Michael
sounds
like eternal worms to me..coz it says the worm dieth not...normally worms die
for sure...but why in this verse the worm dieth not...looks like in the lake of
fire where it is eternal ..unless i am looking in the wrong context..
Sing
Don't
think of literal worms. Literal worms can't exist in literal fire!!!
Sing
If
this is just grave, how those worms do die as a matter of fact.
==========
Beyond
the graves, the Bible speaks of hell and lake of fire... and they are NOT the
same!
Rev
20
13
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up
the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their
works.
14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake
of fire.
What lessons can you draw from here?
Sing
Mark
9:31-48
EVEN
the disciples are in real danger of ending up in hell... otherwise Christ
wasted his words warning them against that imaginary danger.
(But
take note: hell is entirely different from the lake of fire!)
31
For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered
into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he
shall rise the third day...
35
And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire
to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all...
43
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into
life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never
shall be quenched:
44
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45
And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt
into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never
shall be quenched:
46
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into
the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell
fire:
48
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
These
words were addressed specifically to the disciples
'His
disciples... unto them... the twelve... unto them... if thy hand... if thy
foot... if thy eye...'
Good night!
Sing
Are
there anyone in the lake of fire now? <<< Surely not, heathens and
pope still walk the earth.
========
Where
are all those who have died?
Michael
rev
20:14 ...it seems hell is one stage to endure before going to the lake of fire...rite?
and in this context, for rev 20:14 non-elect go to hell first and then go down
to the lake of fire...it definitely doesn't apply to elect rite from my
understanding...elect is saved from the lake of fire...rite?
Sing
Yes.
Correct. These words were told to the disciples. He was speaking to them while
referring to those that would never believe Him and also never in the book of
life.
==========
'Thy...
thy... thy... ' second person singular, addressing each of the 12 disciples
personally!
Christ
is not speaking of those that would never believe Him.
STICK to the text... not
some imagination!
Sing
Luk
16:23 And in *hell* he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham
afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. <<< Here it clear declare right?
==========
Here
it clearly declares WHAT???
State
it clearly WHAT is declared!
So,
is this 'hell' the same as the lake of fire?
Michael
summary
wise...not the same...even though hell got a different meaning and context but it
is just not the same as lake of fire for sure...
Sing
Hello,
we are studying Scriptures, not you or the RCC believe or reject. Stick to
Scriptures. So,
'this flame' EQUAL 'the lake of fire'?????????
Avoid
SOUND-BYTE. Get the SENSE by rightly dividing the word of truth!
Michael
errr,
if can, I can recommend something ...we can write short points on the context
of hell and lake of fire, and then put bible verse to support it....in that
way, we can grasp the understanding without reading all posts in forum....my 2
cents opinion...
Sing
Michael,
good suggestion. But there is a great advantage in discussing rather than reading
what is written. In a discussion like this, minds are engaged more rigorously...
that's what study involved.
Michael
of
course... but then forums like this and writing in summary and using it
hand in hand is a powerful tool...again, just my 2 cents opinion...for example,
in a meeting, we can mention a lot of ideas and give suggestions and next
action taken....after that, there will be a summary of the meeting...from
there, then we can grasp the overall understanding of the meeting...for more
details....we can always go to forums for reference.
without the summary, to be honest....ppl can get lost and lost direction...i am in that situation
Sing
F Lau
'Lake
of fire is always hell and eternal punishment.'
======
Prove
this please... from Scriptures.
If
you can't DON'T repeat it again!
Rev
20
13
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up
the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their
works.
14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake
of fire.
'Death
and hell were cast into the lake of fire' - how could lake of fire and hell be
the same?
You
might as well say the well and Matthew who fell into it are the same!!!
[one Matthew Ong has made lots of silly comments but deleted them all]
Sing
Luke
16:20-31 is a literal illustration of what Christ warned in Mark 9:42-48!
If
it is impossible for God's children of ending up in hell, what is the point of
all the warnings to them???????
It
is impossible for God's children to end up in the lake of fire... and therefore
there is ZERO WARNING against going to the lake of fire.
Sing
without
the summary, to be honest....ppl can get lost and lost direction...i am in
that situation
=========
Don't
despair yet.... the summary and conclusion will become OBVIOUS as we go along
studying and discussing!
That
way of learning the truth is better... our mind is engaged searching the
Scriptures!
Michael
rev
20 of hell and book of Mark version of hell is different le...somemore
addressed to different ppl...dont u think so? but in Mark, can explain further
below?
43
.....hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Michael
without
the summary , to be honest....ppl can get lost and lost direction...i am in
that situation
=========
Don't
despair yet.... the summary and conclusion will become OBVIOUS as we go along
studying and discussing!
That
way of learning the truth is better... our mind is engaged searching the
Scriptures!
=======================
my mind is getting sharper already....lolz
Sing
Where
the poetic turned to spiritual truth and foretelling of future events for a
certain rich man and also Lazarus.
==========
Which
part is poetic, and which part is spiritual, and what future event being
foretold?
Nothing
is foretold... it is a parable warning God's children (the rich ones) against
the conduct of the rich man. Many of God's children are covetous!
Sing
1Co
5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that
the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
========
When
delivered unto Satan for destruction?
And
when might the spirit be saved?
When
is the day of the Lord Jesus?
Sing
Joh
6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me
I will in no wise cast out.
And
Joh
10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to
pluck them out of my Father's hand.
=========
Indicate
how these verses deal with the subject at hand.
Do
you want to prove that none of God's children go to hell?
Do
you want to prove that none of God's children go to the lake of fire?
When
you quote Scriptures, you must state your intention - i.e. what you want to
prove!
Michael
errr... the lake of fire is separation la...those ppl not in the book of life is to be cast
into the lake of fire
Sing
What
do you mean by 'paths of God's wrath'?
'It
seems to me that the beggar had a really bad life more worst than Job, but he
was chosen as the elected of Saints. And the rich man had a very good life, but
he was not chosen as the elected of Saints.'
Why
do you say that the beggar had a really bad life, more worse that Job's??? Is
one of them not chosen as the elected of the Saints?
What
is the basis of your conclusion that the rich man was not chosen as the elected
of the Saints? Is it because none of God's children ever end up in hell?
How is this comparison related to the subject under discussion?
Sing
Sing.
I am for eternal security. Children elected by the Father of Jesus Christ who
art in thrice holy heaven never ever will end up in the lake of fire. However,
I like to point out, the lake of fire is NOT separation from the Lord, aka
Lamb.
========
So
you have affirmed this statement: ''But
none of God's children go to the lake of fire.'
Do you affirm or deny this statement: ''Many of God's children go to hell.'
Forget about fire and brimstone for now!
Sing
Matthew,
how does the proposition that 'many of God's children go to hell' militates
against the doctrine of eternal security?
Remember, none of God's children go to the lake of fire - you have affirmed that.
Michael
matthew...please
tell us that a typo error here
Sing
Do
you affirm or deny this statement:
''Many
of God's children go to hell.'
<<< If the word hell here is just
grave, most will end up in the grave.>>
==========
How
do the Scriptures speaks of 'hell'?
Is
the parable of the rich man telling us, he is in the grave, 'hell' or 'lake of
fire'?
Sing
I
did ask you to clarify, which by the way, you have not.
=====
What
did you wish me to clarify? I overlooked it. Sorry.
Sing
And
how did you conclude that the rich man belonged to that category? Because he is
in hell?
Sing
And
how did you conclude that the rich man is among one of those mentioned by
Christ? because he is in hell?
Michael
nites..let's
continue on tomorrow..
Sing
F Lau
Yes.
I do, none of God's children(Elected of Saints) do go to the lake of fire.
God's children(Both elected of Saints that are Jews and also Gentile) will
never go to lake of fire.
===========
Are
you saying that the rich man is in the lake of fire now?
What
do your John 8:44 and John 1:13 prove, and how are they relevant to the
questions?
What
questions are you answering with the two passages?
Arnel
Manalo Sambo
A
blessed day brothers Im brother Arnel would you mine if may I sit in?
Sing
Welcome.
All students of God's words have equal privilege and responsibility at the
study table.
Sing
'I
believe Jesus Christ implied that rich man is NOT the elected of God even he is
a wealthy Jews of the bloodline in that parable.'
========
What
is the basis of your conclusion 'I believe Jesus Christ implied that rich man
is NOT the elected of God'?
How
does the comparison of Job and Lazarus relate to the topic under discussion?
Keep focus... otherwise, so much said that is irrelevant to the subject at hand.
Sing
'If
we think that ministry of Jesus Christ is already very good. Please hear the
gospel preached from the apostle to the gentile and the letter written to the
hebrew!!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂'
=======
What
are you trying to say?
There
is no need to pit Paul against Jesus! Both will not contradict but are in
perfect harmony!
Sing
Let
me ascertain what you are saying. Lots of gibberish.
I
am lost with what you are trying to say, and how what you are saying is related
to the subject under study!!!
Did
the 'elected of saints of Jewish bloodline people' who died BEFORE Calvary and
those ''elected of saints of Jewish bloodline people' who dies AFTER Calvary
end up in the same place or different place?
Were
there any 'elected of saints of GENTILE bloodline people' before Calvary? if
there were, where did they go?
Is
the truth Jesus taught in Lk 16 applicable to the Jews BEFORE the Calvary and
no longer applies AFTER the Calvary?
Thanks.
========
p/s people who take the liberty to make statements must be held responsible to answer questions on the statements made. Otherwise, they remain stupid.
