 |
1Pe
2:24a "Who
his own self bare our sins |
October
22, 20 11
https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/2127479062028
Sing wrote:
A
Calvinist teacher insisted:
"At
the cross, God made atonement for our sins...it has nothing to do with our
imputed righteousness..!"
A
student of the Bible inquired:
So,
teacher, Christ DID make atonement for your sins at the cross! Good.
And
your sins were ATONED for without Christ's righteousness IMPUTED to you??? Is
that what you believe? Is there such a thing as an atonement without
righteousness? Is that Calvinistic also?
But
at the cross, you did not yet exist! So what sins are you talking about? Do you
have sins to be atoned for when Christ died on the cross?
Think,
teacher!!!
========
Robert
Basham
My
reply: That is hyper-Calvinism.
My sins were laid on Christ the moment I
trusted Him as my Lord and Saviour (in time) Romans 5:1
Sing
What
is hyper-calvinism? Do you want to label many 'reformed' men you adore as
hyper-calvinists also? <LOL>
'My
sins were laid on Christ the moment I trusted Him as my Lord and Saviour (in
time) Romans 5:1..'
Supposing
your notion is true, that your sins were laid on Christ the moment you trusted
Him as your Lord and Saviour, AREN'T your sins laid on Christ TWO THOUSAND years TOO LATE?
All
sins not laid on Christ when He suffered on the cross are not suffered for by
Him. Is that simple enough? Do you think Christ would have to die and suffer
another time just for your sins when you believe in Him as your Lord and Saviour?
You don't believe in the imputation of all the sins of all the elect on Christ when He died and suffered on the cross, do you? And yes, you are a Calvinist!
Robert
Basham
Yes,
but we do not know who are the elect....we are to witness the truth of Gospel Substitution to all men everywhere...and in all nations of the world..!
[sing: why change the subject now? WHEN are your sins laid on Christ?
Sing
God
imputed Adam's sin to you when you (and all others) did not yet have personal
existence... but you did exist in God's mind, and your name is written in the
Lamb's Book of Life.
EVEN
SO, God imputed Christ's righteousness to you when He died and suffered on the
cross for all His elect when you did not have personal existence.
What is so difficult about this?
Sing
You
have just changed the subject. Don't do that yet. Let's stick to the subject,
and examine the soundness of your CALVINISTIC notion.
We
are talking about the imputation of sins and righteousness, and when did the
imputation occur.
Stay focused... don't be wandering stars!
Sing
And
please remember that legal imputation and personal application of righteousness
are separate and distinct matters.
A biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology!
Robert
Basham
I
think we have been through this before. God's decree to justify the elect and
His act of justification (in time when we believe) are not the same. We do not
see things from God's point of view all the time...I will not argue with
you...you much better Bible student than me....🙂
Sing
This
is not arguing. I just wish to point out to you the inconsistencies of your
CALVINISTIC notions. If you don't admit them, it is because you are a good
Calvinist! <LOL>
Dallas
Eaton II
there is no atonement without blood...Christ did say, If I had not come and spoken to them...but now they have no cloak for their sins...here is the timely application of the eternal covenant of Grace...found to be bound in the Father's love dependent upon Christ's taking upon himself the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin condemning sin in the flesh. Prior even to that, the surety of HIS faithfulness brings the imputation of His righteousness to all the elect for the praise of the glory of His grace.
Ashley
Juliot
Robert
Basham said, "My sins were laid on Christ the moment I trusted Him as my
Lord and Saviour (in time)... Romans 5:1.."
Christ bore our sins in His own body on the tree, He was cursed for our sins, He put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself, He purged our sins when He sat down on the right hand of the majesty on high; and all this not because we trusted in Him, but entirely and only because of His free grace for wretched sinners.
Robert
Basham
Read
Pilgrims Progress. Experimentally, from our point of view, the burden of our
sin is removed when by faith alone we trust in the imputed righteousness of
Christ alone for our eternal salvation. This takes place in time when we hear
the gospel...Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not
believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and
how shall they hear without a preacher? Jesus said..My sheep hear My voice,
and they follow Me...(this takes place in time when we are saved).
Ashley
Juliot
Let
us make a distinction between the burden of sin being lifted from our
conscience when we believe and our sins being laid on Christ when He died. The
burden of sin is lifted from our conscious when the Spirit opens our eyes to
that glad tidings that Christ already bore our sins in His own body on the tree
when He was made a curse for us.
The
moment I trusted Christ, I believed that my sins were laid on Christ when He
died. For the scriptures reveal to us, "All we like sheep have gone
astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD HATH laid on him
the iniquity of us all." (Isaiah 53:6)
Your statement, "...My sins were laid on Christ the moment I trusted Him..." is contrary to the free grace redemption in Christ Jesus.
Sing
Abraham,
you stated it so well.
You
appeal to Scriptures, Robert appeal to Bunyan!
How
telling and revealing!
Robert
decided to see as though he is a one-eyed jack, refusing to see with both
his eyes what is LEGAL on the one hand, and what is EXPERIENTIAL on the other!
That's
the sad part!
I
read these words to remind myself this morning:
8 I
will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide
thee with mine eye.
9
Be ye not as the horse, or as the mule, which have no understanding: whose
mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee.
Be
ye not as the mule!
LORD, thank you for instructing and teaching me. Help me not to be a mule!
