A spiritual man but carnally minded; a living man but weak and sickly

Robust and healthy lily

https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/10203299896793666
December 9, 2014 

Question:
Do we have a spiritual mind through regeneration or do we develop a spiritual mind beginning at the conversion by the hearing, and believing in the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Is a spiritual mind an intrinsic fruit of regeneration?
What do you think?

An answer:
A spiritual mind is the mind of a child of God that is BEING renewed and transformed by and through the ministry of the word of truth.

A child of God has spiritual life through the immediate regeneration by the Spirit of God, without the ministry of the word.

A child of God CAN NOT, and DOES NOT and WILL NOT have a spiritual mind apart from the ministry of the word that renews and transforms the mind, AND the child of God subjecting his mind to the will of God.

Without the ministry of the word, God's children remain ignorant as well as carnal!!!

Regeneration DOES NOT produce a mind that is spiritual.
No, a spiritual mind IS NOT intrinsic to regeneration. 

Comments
(Dan made some comments but deleted them all!)

Sing F Lau
If speaking of nature, it is a redundant question... since that is already assumed by regeneration, brother Dane

The original question is this:
Is a spiritual mind intrinsic to regeneration? What do you think?
If the spiritual mind is intrinsic to regeneration then EVERY child of God without exception will have a spiritual mind, and therefore none will have a carnal mind. But that idea does not accord with the Scriptures.

Sing F Lau
Yes, a regenerate has a spiritual nature; he is no longer flesh, he is spirit. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

A regenerate has a spiritual nature but NOT an intrinsic spiritual mind the way the Scriptures speak of being spiritually-minded. A spiritual nature enables him to have a spiritual mind.

In the context of a regenerate ( a child of God), being spiritually minded and carnally minded are opposed to each other.

Sing F Lau
A spiritual nature by virtue of divine activity of regeneration, and a spiritual mind by virtue of its renewal through the ministry of the word and being transformed through it are quite distinct indeed.

Ante Zivkovic
I think that the issue is that a regenerated person cannot know right from wrong without the ministry.

Sing F Lau
1 Cor
3:1 ¶ And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

These Corinthians believers were children of God, regenerate elect.
But they were NOT spiritual-minded. They were carnal!
Spiritual things are spiritually discerned. Those who have a spiritual nature, a new nature as a result of regeneration are capable of discerning spiritual things. Under the ministry of the word, a man's MIND with a spiritual NATURE will soon be renewed and his mind is said to be spiritual.

A dead man that is quickened will soon gain health and strength under a rigorous regime of nourishment and physiotherapy. I hope this helps to illustrate what I'm saying.

Sing F Lau
Ro 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
============
It requires great effort on the part of God's children to move from being carnally minded to being spiritually-minded.

If being spiritually minded is intrinsic in regeneration, then life and peace here on earth IS automatically the portion of all of God's children.

Sing F Lau
I thought so... we are defining things differently.
A man with a new spiritual NATURE (by virtue of the new birth) is not necessarily of spiritually-minded.

You seem to disagree with this... do I read you right?

If a spiritual mind is intrinsic to regeneration, then each and every child of God (regenerated elect) IS spiritually-minded, and none will ever be carnally minded. Such an idea is quite contrary to the Scriptures.

I wish such an idea is true indeed. It will make pastoral ministry a whole lot easier!

Sing F Lau
1. It all depends on how you understand "spiritual mind" and "spiritually minded."

In one sense EVERYTHING about a regenerate (a child of God) is spiritual.... since " that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." Thus, he is a spiritual man, in contrast to being a natural man, of the flesh. Such a spiritual man DOES NOT necessarily be spiritually minded. To be spiritually minded, his "spiritual mind" - the mind of the spiritual man MUST need to be instructed and renewed by the word of God. Thus being spiritually minded is NOT intrinsic to regeneration.

2. The mind of the "spiritual man" on any particular matter is either carnal or spiritual, either conformed to God's word, or not.

On matter A, he may be spiritually minded, on matter B he may be carnally minded.

This is how I understand the matter.

Sing F Lau
Let me put rephrase what you say - "I believe Paul (Rom. 8:6) talks about two sorts of mindedness that a regenerate (child of God, thus spiritual, no longer natural) may put on: spiritually minded or carnally minded."

Is that what you are saying - a spiritual mind yet carnally minded?
I would rather say - a spiritual nature yet carnally minded.

Sing F Lau
The reason I REPHRASE it (I did say "Let me rephrase what you say") to highlight the problem as I see it... that of equating a man with spiritual life with a spiritual mind.

In your understanding, a regenerate is ESSENTIALLY a spiritual mind also, and then that spiritual mind can be spiritually minded or carnally minded.

I think that manner of speaking is a recipe for confusion.

Sing F Lau
Brother Dane, I may have erred. I will leave it to you to use such language as "a spiritual mind is not spiritually minded."

Carnally minded is the result of the spiritual man not thinking and acting spiritually. You would attribute it to the old nature.

"The message of healing is the most vital of the whole Bible" - Dr BengO

Many no longer have any sense of shame 

for failing to rightly divide the word of truth.

Some weeks ago I met a certain Dr BengO. We introduced ourselves and made acquaintance. I have been receiving messages from him.

Read today's exchanges below... I hope you enjoy it. 
If you do learn something, leave your comments. 
=======

On Saturday June 11, Dr BengO* wrote,
My son... has written a sermon on "Preaching About Healing in the Name of Jesus" and will preach the sermon at Christian Fellowship in his School SMK St. Xavier, Penang this coming Monday.  Because the message is very vital and his sermon is profound, I will get it published on my blog the next after Monday.  So, please to to my blog on Tuesday and read it. If you need healing from the Lord, you shall receive healing from Lord when you read it. This is how powerful his sermon. God bless you. [*BengO isn't his real name.]

Sing
Thanks, Dr. BengO.
When you have some time, read this short article...
https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2021/05/the-order-of-salvation.html
If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

BengO (Monday, June 13)
I have just published a sermon just preached by my son... on my blog. The message is the most vital of the whole Bible. We must all read this message from the Lord. God bless you. He preached it to his friends and teachers at Christian Fellowship in his school just now

Sing (Tuesday, June 14)
Thanks, Dr. BengO.
Why is the message [of healing] considered the most vital of the whole Bible? Honestly curious and desiring to know. 

BengO
The message of healing (both spiritual and physical, if it is spiritual, it must be spiritual too) in the Name of Jesus is the most vital of the whole Bible because it clings closely or I would say, because of the verses such as Genesis 2: 17, Genesis 3:22, Mark 2:5--11, John 8: 11, John 10: 10 and many  in he scripture, that it it identical to the gospel and the Cross. That is why Paul said in 1 Corinthians 2: 2. This closely and related message of the two is like what Jesus said about the woman and the gospel in Matthew 26: 13 (KJV). I pray the Holy Spirit will reveal more to you that to be healed is not optimal in issue of salvation. Therefore, come boldly to the throne of grace to take this goodness of God that belongs to us for the Lord has done it for His people. Oneness with God speaks volume here. God bless you, Pastor Lau. 

Sing
Thanks. I am trying to understand what you have written.
Why "if it is spiritual, it must be spiritual too"? Why the tautology?
(You have quoted not a few Scriptures. Let’s look at them.)

Concerning the statement on healing, whether physical or spiritual, as the most vital message of the whole Bible, I'm reminded of the words of Christ to the Apostles who performed great miracles and healing.

Luke 10:20 KJV — "Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven."
- Christ's words instruct us that there is more vital truth to rejoice in than even the gift of healing or healing itself.
- Christ exhorts, "rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven."

Concerning Gen 2:17, the spiritually dead needs regeneration, quickening to life from deadness; the dead can't be healed; only the living sick can be healed or need healing.

Ephesians 2:1 KJV – “And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.”

What's your understanding of Gen 3:22? How is it related to the subject of healing? I'm eager to understand.

Concerning John 8:11 KJV — "She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."
- This has nothing to do with healing but the gracious and abundant forgiveness, and a command to sin no more.

Concerning John 10:10 KJV — "The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly."
- This has nothing to do with healing of the sick but the giving of life to the dead. The next verse repeats and confirms this: "¶I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep."
- Verse 15 states the wonderful truth again, "As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep."

As for Mark 2:5-11, we missed the most vital truth if our focus is on the miracles/healings - something all too common today. The miracles/healing were merely an instrument/ a sign to point men to Christ, the Son of the living God. Sadly too many are still fixated with healing instead of their blessed Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Let me illustrate- it's like a tourist getting fixated at the big “Pulau Pinang” signboard directing him to Penang island, the wonderful isle of the Pearl of the Orient; instead of relishing in all the wonders and goodness of Penang, he keeps talking about that big green “Pulau Pinang” road sign leading to Penang.

1Cor 2:2 clearly debunk the myth that the subject of healing is the most vital of the whole Bible. Instead, it affirms my comment and illustration on Mark 2:5-11.

Mt 26:13 magnifies the blessed deed of honouring Christ. Healing pales into nothing compared with concrete actions showing our love and devotion to Christ.

Thanks, Dr BengO. May our gracious Lord bless us as we learn together. Amen.

BengO
There is a lot you have touched upon. But you have totally misunderstood the short message I responded to you question you asked. Go and read my 200 writings on my blog, or at least read my son's sermon which posted in my blog

We do not focus on healing but we focus on Jesus.

And healing is the result of this intimate relationship with Christ

Being healthy is the nature of God. So, if we are born again and partake the nature as the book of Peter indicates we are healthy and we are healed. When we are sick we are not trying to be healed but we defend our healing in the name of Jesus. That is as this short I Iike to say

I have experienced the Lord personally of all healings

God bless you, Pastor Lau.

One more thing about your response to my answer is that I have found your understanding of verses of Bible loaded with the doctrine of theology.  Read the word of God only and remain in the word of God and let the Holy Spirit teaches you for a period of time, you shall the difference

God bless you

Sing
😊😊😊
I'm dealing with the statement you made "the message [of healing] is the most vital [of] the whole Bible."  If you believe that is true, then so be it. 

BengO
Check the Word of God. Pure heart sees God.

Sing Lau
I'm checking. That's why I responded to your statement. For the conversation to be profitable, we just need to stick to the word of God.

It's sad you don't see the falsity of the statement you have made in light of the word of God.

BengO
Continue to check the Word of God and seek  the Lord with all your heart, then you will know the  Truth of what He has revealed me even if it takes your whole life.

Do not forget this is also what people of the Law said to Jesus in the gospel

If you really mean what you are honestly seeking to understand

Though I have word of knowledge that you did not

Pure heart see God

You have come to defend your doctrine instead of seeking understanding

I have seen many are like this

Check your relationship with the Lord all this time

God knows who they that trust in Him

No point of arguing here. I am not interested

I have seen many healings and miracles in name of Jesus and even to cast out demons. This is more vital to me because my praise come from God and not of men

God bless you

Sing
God bless you too.
Good bye, Dr BengO.

Singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord

Colossians 3:16

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; 

teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns
and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

 

May 24, 2020  ·

#Word_of_Christ  and #Your_singing

Colossians 3:16

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Some thoughts:

i. "the word of Christ"

- words concerning Christ, His person as the only begotten Son of God, the eternal Word made flesh; His work as the Redeemer of His people; His threefold offices as the prophet, priest, and king to His people; these are the chief themes of the whole of the inspired Scriptures. Essentially, the word of Christ is the same as the word of God.

ii. "Let the word of Christ dwell in you"

- The Scriptures are to be carefully attended to publicly, diligently read and frequently meditated upon privately; they are able, under  God's divine appointment, to furnish disciples with all spiritual wisdom, or to make God's children wise unto their salvation by His free grace in Jesus Christ.

- This is the only way the word of Christ will begin to find a dwelling place in you. An implanted microchip won't do!

- It requires discipline, devotion, commitment, and time; it calls for your mental exertion to have the word of Christ to dwell in you, to have it firmly rooted in you. To dwell is to make it to abide, to remain, to continue in you; not just a TnG thing, but a permanent and fulltime resident.

- Mt 13:19 happens all too often, "When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side." What a waste of effort; 2Co 6:1  "We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain."

iii. "richly in all wisdom"

- "richly" - in abundant measure, the whole counsel of God. Act 20:27 "For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God." 2Tim 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:17 that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

iv. "in all wisdom": in all wisdom speaks of the ability to use word of Christ suitably for all occasions and for all needs. It is the ability to use it profitably for its divinely intended purposes.

- Having a workshop equipped with all the great tools and gadgets is great and impressive; having the knowledge and wisdom to use them is absolutely needed if those tools are to accomplish any profit to anyone.

- Without wisdom, the word of God may be abused and misused to cause harm.  2Pe 3:16 "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

Having the word of Christ dwelling in you richly in all wisdom is a PREREQUISITE for the mutual duty of "teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord."

There is too much singing that is detached from, and uninformed by, the word of Christ.

1Co 14:15

What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

Amen.

p/s Church choir does not fulfill this scriptural command in Col 3:16; congregational singing does.

 

Sola Fide and Heretics

1. There is a 'sola fide' that I reject as the lie from the pit of hell.
2. There is a 'sola fide' that I receive as the truth taught by Apostle Paul.
Which sola fide do you believe?

https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/3286320512340
May 24, 2020  ·

#Ignoramus #Heretic

Facebook reminded me of this post on May 24, 2012.

A Mr. Diaz called me a heretic; the RBs of Malaysia had done the same earlier in 2004 for similar reasons.

I left two comments as indicated in the screenshot; they are as follows:

Sing F Lau

Perhaps you can show us that you even understood my position.
1. There is a 'sola fide' that I reject as the lie from the pit of hell.
2. There is a 'sola fide' that I receive as the truth taught by Apostle Paul.

Now, please show us that you have read and understood my positions on the above two statements. Otherwise, you are just speaking ignorantly... and that is shameful enough!

Sing F Lau
There is a sola fide that is a lie of the devil and comes from the pit of hell, even this popular fiction about justification before God: "righteousness is imputed to a man through his believing." And this is what Nathaniel and the likes of him believe... whether they are of the reformed or Arminian tent. 

That view is just plain erroneous for this nonsense:
- it implies that a man without the imputed righteousness, therefore still under just condemnation and death, is capable of believing...
- it implies that a man without the imputed righteousness is already regenerated and capable of believing...
- If you need more, let me know!!!

A man is JUSTIFIED by the righteousness of Christ alone
- That's the LEGAL justification: the righteousness of Christ IMPUTED IMPUTED IMPUTED to him at the cross.

A man is JUSTIFIED by the grace of God alone:
- That is VITAL justification: how the righteousness of Christ is APPLIED APPLIED APPLIED freely to a man personally by the grace of God

A man is JUSTIFIED by faith alone:
- This is EXPERIENTIAL justification: believing in Jesus Christ is the manner how a CHILD OF GOD [ALREADY justified, regenerated and adopted, and given the Spirit of adoption...] EXPERIENCES EXPERIENCES EXPERIENCES the blessedness of his justified state by God's free grace. There is NO NO NO accounting of righteousness here at all.

A biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology.

"So is every one that is born of the Spirit."

When regeneration and conversion

are not kept and restricted to their own track,

what you get is the wreck! Right track, no wreck!

https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/10204283171894929
May 21, 2015

John 3:8
"The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."

It is stated categorically, "so is every one that is born of the Spirit."

What this means is simple and plain enough: all the elect, without any exception, is regenerated in exactly the same, and needless to say, to exactly the same extent. So, every elect is regenerated in exactly the one same way, and to the one same degree.

- Do you agree? If you do, proceed. If you don't, you need not read further.

What is the one and only absolutely sure and certain way that ALL the elect, without a single exception, will be be regenerated, between their conception and physical death?

- Is it regeneration WITH the gospel preaching, or
- Is it regeneration WITHOUT the gospel preaching?
- (If there is a third alternative, please tell us. thanks)

To those who hold to the "regeneration WITH the gospel preaching",

Let's say, as you affirm, that regeneration by the Spirit is through the preaching of the gospel, then these are necessary implications:

- there is absolutely no elect among those who had no opportunity to hear the gospel; your mantra is, "no preaching, no regeneration!" Therefore, if there are elect among them, they will be left in their native unregenerated state, and will eventually end up in the lake of fire.

- there is absolutely no elect among those who have no ability to hear the gospel; your mantra is, "no preaching, no regeneration!" Therefore, if there are elect among them, they will remain in their native state of sin and death, and will finally end up in the lake of fire.

Since it is insisted that the divine work of regeneration is dependent upon the human work of preaching, an activity necessarily performed by a man (Rom 10:14), this necessarily implies that the eternal salvation of a man is NOW DEPENDENT upon the activities of other men, since your mantra is, "no preaching, no regeneration!"

Why is it so hard to believe that the gospel ministry is for the CONVERSION of God's children to the truth of their salvation by the free and sovereign grace of God in Jesus Christ? Why do preachers insist that their gospel ministry has anything to do with the regeneration of sinners dead in their trespasses and sins to eternal life? They do most certainly sound so much grander, and indispensable, to think themselves intimately involved in the begetting of God's children. They assist God in His work of regeneration.

They are REFUSE to think that God can regenerate without them! They are incapable to think that God uses them for the conversion of His children whom He Himself has already begotten!

I have never heard of a midwife so stupid to insist that she helps in the conception of the lives she helps to deliver. But I have heard of many stupid (i.e. lacking common sense) preachers, with ThD and DD behind their names, who insist that their activities are necessary to assist God in His work of begetting His children.

Similarly, I have never met a farmer who says that the wind will not blow on the farm unless is present, and doing something on the farm! But countless seminary-trained preachers believe that their presence and activities are necessary for the Spirit to do His work of regeneration! 

When one is unable to keep regeneration (quickening the dead), and conversion (turning a living person into the right doctrines and practice) distinct and separate, there will always be contradictions and inconsistencies at best, and damnable heresies at worst.

 ========

10 Comments

Bhaskar Ban
Oh so sad

Sing F Lau
Sorry you are made so sad!!!

Jerry Chapin
Didn't see what's sad about the New Birth being ALL of God and NO part left to man...also, couldn't correlate the train wreck with your article...

Sing F Lau
When regeneration and conversion are not kept and restricted to their own track, what you get is the wreck!  Right track, no wreck!

Jerry Chapin
Oh! OK...I can see that correlation...too early in the AM for me I guess...have a blessed day, Bro. Sing...

Sing F Lau
It is 8.20pm here! We are on the opposite side of the small globe. May our Lord bless you richly. 

William D Martin
Sing, Why Romans 10:14, please give me some feed back.

Sing F Lau
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

========

That's a good question!

Why Romans 10:14?

Romans 10:14 declares the necessity of preaching the gospel for the CONVERSION of God's children (elect that are already bestowed with ETERNAL salvation at regeneration to eternal life)... SO THAT God's children can hear, and be brought to know and believe the truth of their salvation by God's free grace in the Lord Jesus Christ. 

How shall they hear without a preacher bringing to gospel of their salvation to them? Preaching is very necessary... necessary ONLY for the end appointed by God (i.e. the conversion of His children to the truth of their salvation); not necessary for the end hallucinated by many preachers (regeneration of sinners dead in trespasses and sins by the Spirit.)

How shall God's children believe in their blessed Saviour without them hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ? Hearing the gospel is very necessary... necessary ONLY for the end appointed by God (i.e. the conversion of His children to the truth of their salvation); not necessary for the end hallucinated by many preachers (the means for the Spirit to regenerate of sinners dead in trespasses and sins.)

Just consider who the passage is dealing with... who does the pronoun "they" refer to?
- who are they that shall call upon the Lord Jesus Christ when they do hear the gospel of Jesus Christ?
- who are they that shall believe in Jesus Christ when they do hear the gospel of Jesus Christ?
- who are they that shall hear the gospel of Jesus Christ when it is preached to them?

THEY are them that ARE SAVED; them that HAVE BEEN SAVED by God, and they alone that are capable of all those things.

THEY are NOT them that are still in their native state of sin and death! Many preachers imagine so, thus believing their preaching activities are involved in the regeneration of sinners dead in trespasses and sins.

1Cor 1:18
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Do I make sense? I like good questions.

Marty-Sandy Smith
Amen. Regeneration, or giving everlasting life to those dead in trespasses and sin, is all of God (monergistic), and man is the passive beneficiary of regeneration by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Conversion, or giving gospel food to those with life in Jesus Christ, is a synergistic work of God and man, and man is blessed to be an active participant in that gospel.

Conversion does not precede or accompany regeneration, but conversion is made possible by regeneration.

Jerry Chapin
Good exegesis from you both...and on the conversion part, how wonderful when that little sheep sees, for the first time, what his Lord has done and how he's kept in and by the power of God...blessings to you both...