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BHO's so-called birth certificate - the most wanted birth certificate of all ages!
A birth certificate declares the good news of the birth.
The birth is prior, and forms the basis for the birth certificate! |
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Charles posted:
"There will be many people of God's elect, who will be in heaven, who never heard the the Gospel audibly in this life!" - TK. May I add there will be people of God's elect who heard the Gospel incorrectly.
Sing F Lau
"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."
May I add - "is accepted with God regardless of whether heard or not heard the gospel."
Of course, make every effort to bring the gospel to them... but it won't make them more acceptable to God. It will surely make them more enlightened about their standing with God, and the nature of their salvation by God's free grace, and make them wise unto their salvation by God's free grace, and make disciples of them.
Wallace
Romans 10:13-14
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear w...ithout a preacher?
Sing F Lau
Pray tell,
- who are they who will call upon the name of the Lord: those already regenerated, or those still dead in trespasses and sins?
- who are they who will believe: those already regenerated, or those still dead in trespasses and sins?...
- who are those who will hear and discern the gospel: those already regenerated, or those still dead in trespasses and sins?
The same Apostle said, " For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which ARE SAVED it is the power of God."
The preaching of the gospel comes to two categories of people: those that are perishing, and those that ARE SAVED.
The gospel is brought to those that ARE SAVED - saved by God's free and sovereign grace with ETERNAL salvation. Them that ARE SAVED are there first, before the gospel arrive... the gospel comes to them that ARE SAVED. Get the point?
Hearing and believing the gospel ALSO saves - but saves in an ENTIRELY different sense... the gospel saves them that ARE SAVED (by God) from ignorance and error and darkness, and enlightens them and make them wise unto their eternal salvation by God's free and sovereign grace.
The gospel truth instructs them to live godly, soberly and righteously, saving them from the temporal effects of sins in this life. The gospel truth arms and equips THEM THAT ARE SAVED to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling.
Sing F Lau
Many elitists - read reformed and calvinists - insist only those who hear and embrace the 5 points are true believers, and heaven is filled with these people only! If one does not cross their T's and dot their I's, he is hell bound still!
Wallace
@ TerranceK -- The passage quoted uses Moses and Isaiah as examples.
You tell me, were Moses and Isaiah angels?
@ Sing F Lau -- since you seem to think you are saved without the Gospel, your gospel is of no value whatsoever. Since you are ETERNALLY saved, what's a little "ignorance and error and darkness", or for that matter whats a lot of "ignorance and error and darkness". So what! Who cares? Eat drink and be merry! The "elect" are off to eternal bliss ANYWAY! What foolishness! This "second" gospel of yours is useless.
To answer your 1st 3 questions:
"Those who are drawn by God's prevenient grace (Titus 2:11) and submit to Him therein." (Those whom this grace does appear, by the way, are "all men" as says the Scripture)
Your dualistic salvation is pathetic.
What eternal profit is the gospel, since you are saved without it?
What eternal profit is the blood of Christ, since God's decree saved you and not the propitiation of the Savior?
And how do you know you are saved anyway?
How arrogant of you to think you are one of the "elect".
Repent and believe the true Gospel.
Sing F Lau
Wall-ace @ since you seem to think you are saved without the Gospel, your gospel is of no value whatsoever."
I say, you have rotten and perverse logic. The gospel is the good news of what God has done. News DOES not save, news ANNOUNCES that... God HAS SAVED.
God saves His people, and the gospel, the good news of what God has done, is send to inform and instruct them of the truth of God saving them by His free and sovereign grace.
Your birth certificate DID NOT cause your birth. Your rotten and perverse 'logic' then declares that your birth certificate is of no value whatsoever!
Sorry, you are too irrational and illogical to speak concerning the things of God. You have not the sound mind needed for a profitable conversation.
2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a SOUND MIND.
Sing F Lau
Wall-ace@ "Since you are ETERNALLY saved, what's a little "ignorance and error and darkness", or for that matter whats a lot of "ignorance and error and darkness"."
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I said 'eternal salvation' - the NATURE of salvation. The salvation that is bestowed upon me in time by God's free grace is eternal salvation. It is different in nature to the salvation that I must work out for myself with fear and trembling.
You twist my 'eternal salvation' into 'ETERNALLY saved' - to that of the TIME of salvation, i.e. saved in eternity.
Have your mind renewed please.
Richardson
1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which ARE saved it is the power of God.
Dyess
My husband likes to say:: the Gospel means 'good news' NOT 'good options.' :) haha
We also say FREE gift..not free gift with purchase, not free only pay shipping and handling.. FREE, you dont have to dial 1-800-Jesus first.
FREE GIFT..."But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many." Romans 5:15
The free gift of grace abounded to many because of what Jesus did NOT anything you do. the free gift CAME. nothing stopped it.. not it will come.. it already came (v.18)
Ephesians 2:8-9
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that ***not of yourselves***: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
Wallace
Kate, quick question. Are you saying that our birth certificates, to those of us who ARE alive, is the power of life? just wondering.
Wallace
Mrs. Dyess, very true Salvation is a "free gift". And being a free gift, there is nothing anyone can do to merit God's merciful gift.
But, also, being a gift it must be accepted or rejected. This is the nature of a gift that it is not forced on anyone. Those who accept the gift will demonstrate such by their obedience.
"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Hebrews 5:9
[If salvation is a gift that needed to be accepted by the person needing salvation, is that a good news? How stupid (lacking common sense) and self-injurious a man untaught by the Scriptures can be! sing)
Page
Romans 10:13-14
Dyess
"And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us." Rom 5:5 GIVEN not offered.
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
[24] Being justified freely by... his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
[25] Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith (God's faith) in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
[26] To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
[27] Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
[28] ***Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. ***Rom 3 23-28
"And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement." Rom 5: 11 NOW received not will receive 'if'. NOW
"For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy ghost, even from his mother's womb" Luke 1:15 Who preached to him? How did he accept Chirst/be baptised yada yada from the womb?! God is almighty and no one is beyond his reach ever. Witness the record of his salvation from the very beginning of life BEFORE he was even out in the world to hear (in the physical sense), talk (to 'accept' Jesus) or do anything. God's reach is immeasurable! "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God." Rom 13:1
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out... No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6: 37 & 44.
"Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began," (2 Tim 1:9)
"Neither is there salvation in any other; for there is no other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" Acts 4:12
"When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." Matt 19:25-26
Jesus said man can not save himself. You CAN'T do it. This includes 'acceptance'. Only God has the power. He knew if he left it up to us then NO one would be with him in glory.. There was none that did good, none that seeked after him! Not one.
Give God the glory.
Wallace
Mrs. Dyess,
None of those Scriptures support the damnable heresy of OSAS as you seem to purport. But no wonder you would believe such, getting your doctrine from Bruce Willis, and Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
Surely you don't consider yourself ...a part of God's elect, while entertaining yourself with the likes of Guns N' Roses and Twisted Sister?
What kind of pathetic god do you serve? You think he can force you into heaven but he is too impotent to keep you from defiling yourself with the filth of the world.
No thank you, I'll keep my Jesus whose blood delivers from ALL filthiness of the flesh AND spirit.
Repent, sin-lovers, and serve the real Jesus of the Bible.
Sing F Lau
A man who preaches 'prevenient grace'
is on a separate but parallel road to that of
A man who preaches 'electing grace.'
Wall-ace@"But, also, being a gift it must be accepted or rejected. This is the nature of a gift that it is not forced on ...anyone. "
Tell a man who is dead in trespasses and sin, in enmity against God, a child of disobedience, a child of wrath, can't discern spiritual things, etc... tell him to accept the gospel!
Only a very deluded and misguided man would speak such a thing! Probably he has offered a beef-burger to a dead man and pleaded with the dead man to accept or reject his offer!
Will a dead man, when quickened to life, complain that life is forced upon him??????? If he does, what do you call such a man? free-wall ace pelagian! Wall-ace most certainly think so, on the same premise.
Page
Probably he has offered a beef-burger to a dead man and pleaded with the dead man to accept or reject his offer! LOL ...I have a mental pic of that!
Sing F Lau
Wallace@'Are you saying that our birth certificates, to those of us who ARE alive, is the power of life? just wondering.'
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All your birth certificate does is to inform you what has already happened.
It has nothing to do whatsoever in your conception and birth. Conception and birth PRECEDE the issuance of the birth certificate that announces what has already happened.
Though the birth certificate DID NOT have anything to do with your conception and birth, and though it is just a piece of paper, it is nevertheless a very useful piece of document because it records what has happened that brought about your being... the identity of your father, and mother, etc...
Gospel is good news that announces the great work of salvation that God has accomplished in His Son Jesus Christ, and applied to His elect through His Spirit. So, it is mighty useful and helpful and needful for a child of God to know the content of the gospel.
Dyess
Mr. Wallace.. How dare you. You have no clue how long it has been since I edited my profile or what I do. But that's ok. Since you can not logically dispute what I said, you made personal attacks. Yes, I am a sinner, so are you and everyone ...else in the world.. this is why God would not have left our eternal salvation up to us or any man. Jesus died for all of our sins.
Since you asked, my God is almighty and can reach anyone at anytime without the help of man.
Sing F Lau
Wallace @ "None of those Scriptures support the damnable heresy of OSAS as you seem to purport. "
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May I ask, when a man DEAD in trespasses and sins is regenerated by the free and sovereign grace of God, is there anything he can do or fail to do, that will make him revert back to his natural UN-regenerated state?
Eternal salvation is a GIFT from heaven - you would agree, wouldn't you? (Of course that is a different salvation from the one that you have to work out for yourself with fear and trembling).
And surely you have read this declaration, haven't you - Ro 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
OSAS - it is true, Once saved by God, always saved.
OSAS is only a damnable heresy when man is involved in any part of his eternal salvation... he can never be sure whether he did his part correctly, adequately, acceptably, genuinely, etc... ENOUGH???
If eternal salvation is in some way conditioned to a part you play, then you have lots of reason to doubt whether you did your part right... and even if you did it right, you may just UN-DO it again by some negligence or carelessness or unbelief or unfaithfulness! It is a very precarious situation to be in! But that is what you deliberately chose for yourself...
And it seem you rather promote such a damnable heresy - man is involved, plays some part in his eternal salvation.
I see the wall picture of Charles Page carrying a mighty sword... I wish he put it to good use on you, not to cut off your head, but to knock some sense into your WOOLLY head!
Dyess
Thank you bro. Sing, you are much better with words than I am :)
Alice, with the girls of Frank Lowry in Tasmania, Dec 1986
