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to wink at - to overlook, take no notice of, not attend to |
https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/pfbid02owGUCVLveyfwQtLmnvheCPzYDLUsAfccj2kkTCiB1V9t3bpvtNzUZxDmJwhsJGDyl
June 30, 2022
#ignorance_winked_at
Acts 17
30 And the times of this ignorance God
winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the
which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man [Christ Jesus] whom he hath
ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised
him from the dead.
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May I inquire
1. Whose ignorance did God overlook in
times past?
- what were they ignorant of?
2. Those whose ignorance God overlooked,
were they saved? In what sense?
3. What's the effect of God overlooking
their ignorance?
4. Why were those times of ignorance
overlooked?
5. What has brought the change; why will ignorance not be overlooked now?
6. Who are the men everywhere that are
commanded to repent - every single person of the human race, or God's children
(regenerated elect) scattered everywhere - commanded to repent and believe the
truth concerning Christ?
You may have questions too; ask away!
Asking to learn and understand the truth.
=======
38 Comments
Reggie Lee
1. The world from Noah till right before
John The Baptist.
2. Saved from another flood or some other
catastrophic event? Yes. Saved from God’s Wrath? Yes. Eternally Saved from the
lake of fire? No one knows.
3. Population numbers begin rising. The
blessings and Love from God cause great civilizations to arise. 70 Nations are
established within 4 Generations from Noah that would cover the face of the
whole earth. God’s Sovereign Plan of working within one particular tribe a
Savior that would deliver.
4. For the sake of establishing a certain
number of His Elect.
5. 1st, the Earth received The Holy Spirit.
2. The Wall of Partition was torn down and
God’s Wrath for sin was appeased.
3. The Elect had no need of an earthly
mediator and was now free to draw nigh unto God of their own cognizance.
I gain these answers to your 5th question
by this…
34 And they shall teach no more every man
his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall
all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. (Jeremiah
31:34
KJV)
And again…
11 And they shall not teach every man his
neighbour, And every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: For all shall know
me, From the least to the greatest. (Hebrews
8:11
KJV)
6. The Command to Repent (change the mind)
accomplishes many things.
1. It validates the obedience of said
command to be children of God. Therefore it is a divider, a separator of man.
2. I give direction for the children of
God to go.
3. It works as a salve 🧴
for the soul of the obedient man, healing ❤️🩹
it from the effects of their sin.
4. It condemns the disobedient, justifying
the Judgement of God on them in their conscience, making them aware of the
coming catastrophe of their own soul.
Sing F Lau
Reggie Lee Thanks for sending back some
echoes.
Sing F Lau
Reggie Lee: overlook - ignore or disregard
(something, especially a fault or offence).
What exactly was the fault/offence that was
overlooked; who was ignorant of what, and why was that ignorance a
fault/offence?
There is something in which no man is
ignorant of, in which no man has any excuse.
"Without excuse" and
"overlooked" indicate vastly different situations.
Romans 1
18 ¶For the wrath of God is revealed from
heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth
in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God
is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the
creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are
made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.
Reggie Lee
Sing F Lau, great response and a well-warranted question indeed!!! Imma look hard at this…
Reggie Lee
Sing F Lau:1st Question…The idea of the Unknown God is what
provoked Paul to say this…
“….. winked at…”
Athens is the place where this was said. Greek gods and goddesses along with the
idea of higher education is what’s being addressed here…
Follow me…
Elements/Elementary/Elementary School.
The elements will melt with fervent heat….
Meaning, the way society was going to gain knowledge of what actually is, the
truth, will be by The Knowledge of The Lord which will in turn cause these
higher Elementary Schools of thought to vanish away.
Elements like Gold, silver and the two
which make up brass had the idea of these Greek gods and goddesses attached to
them and their schools (school of thought) stemmed and grew outta this system.
Their math, science and literature were full
of superstition.
Truth is that which corresponds to reality,
what actually is.
The offence was, that people in that day were
outta touch with reality, out of touch with what actually is, outta touch with
truth, because of superstition.
The Athenian was ignorant, not only of this Unknown God, but also His laws of science, math, literature, etc…
Sing F Lau
Reggie Lee: Q6. Who are the men everywhere that are
commanded to repent - every single person of the human race, or God's children
scattered everywhere - commanded to repent and believe the truth concerning
Christ?
----------
A6. The Command to Repent (change the mind)
accomplishes many things.
1. It validates the obedience of said
command to be children of God. Therefore it is a divider, a separator of man.
2. I give direction for the children of
God to go.
3. It works as a salve 🧴
for the soul of the obedient man, healing ❤️🩹
it from the effects of their sin.
4. It condemns the disobedient, justifying
the Judgement of God on them in their conscience, making them aware of the
coming catastrophe of their own soul.
-----------
I'm confused and confounded!
Reggie Lee
Sing F Lau the gospel accomplishes two
things…
1. Conversion of the Child of God.
2. Condemnation of the wicked ones.
Adam Wells
I'll answer the first 2:
1. Whose ignorance did God overlook in
times past? All nations of men (vs26)
2. Those whose ignorance God overlooked,
were they saved? In what sense? Saved??? No they were not saved. The opposite
is true. They were worshipping idols and unknown gods!
Sing F Lau
Adam Wells Thanks for being a sounding
board.
What is meant by all nations of men?
Are "all nations of men" the same
as "men of all nations"?
Adam Wells
Sing F Lau: All men everywhere.
Sing F Lau
Adam Wells: "All nations of men" speaks of
nations, all diverse "ethnos" - all diverse people groups - all of
them from one common blood. It's not the same as "all men
everywhere."
Assuming it is, what was "all men
everywhere" ignorant of? Thanks.
Acts 17:30 KJV — And the times of this
ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Does "all men every where" mean
every single human exhaustively?
What are they to repent of?
Adam Wells
Sing F Lau: Does "all men everywhere" mean every single human exhaustively?
Yes, precisely! All men are
responsible to acknowledge the creator.
Sing F Lau
"All men are responsible to
acknowledge the Creator" - that's true indeed. A few of the reasons are
these:
i. It is true of every one of them, without
exception.
ii. Every one of them instinctively knows
their Creator but suppresses the truth in unrighteousness.
iii. Apostle Paul asserted that fact and
concluded that they are without excuse - Romans 1:18-21.
To acknowledge the Creator ALSO presupposes
knowledge of the Creator; knowledge is quite the opposite of ignorance, the
subject under consideration.
But the present passage speaks of those
who were ignorant of something and the Lord God had overlooked their
ignorance.
The Lord God most certainly and assuredly
did not overlook those who refused to acknowledge Him as Creator.
Rom 2:1 ¶ Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. "inexcusable" and "overlooked" are at the opposite ends of the spectrum,
Adam Wells
Sing F Lau: Because he hath appointed a day,
in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath
ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised
him from the dead.
Acts 17:31
The creator hath ordained a man! That man
will judge the world. No sin will be overlooked... Hence He commands all men
everywhere to repent.
Sing F Lau
Adam Wells: Thanks.
Concerning 17:31, is "the world"
that will be judged in righteousness and the "all men" unto whom God
has given assurance the same group of people, i.e. coextensive?
Adam Wells
Sing F Lau: Yes... All men everywhere. This
passage does not limit it to the elect.
Sing F Lau
Please explain why the passage does not
limit it to the elect?
So, you are saying "the world
judged" and "all men assured" are coextensive. Noted.
"The creator hath ordained a man! That
man will judge the world. No sin will be overlooked... Hence He commands all
men everywhere to repent."
Therefore, that Man will judge the world,
i.e. "all men everywhere", including those whose sins have been
atoned for by that Man; even the sins that have been atoned by Him will not be
forgiven by him.
That's what I conclude you are saying; am I wrong?
Adam Wells
Sing F Lau, You are correct... But the
passage does not speak of redemption/atonement.
And the times of this ignorance God winked
at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Acts 17:30 - The man spoken of is king. The same king David prophecied in Ps 2, Kiss the son, lest he be angry... Allegiance is due, because He is king... Not because He is redeemer.
Sing F Lau
Adam Wells: "... the passage does not speak of
redemption/atonement..."
Now you are saying that Apostle Paul spent so much time with the Athenians without preaching the gospel of the Man whom God has ordained to judge the world in righteousness! Hmmmmm.
Adam Wells
Sing F Lau Did I say that? I did not.
Let us stick with the text and not read
anything into it. Ok?
Sing F Lau
Adam Wells, You didn't say what?
Yes, I'm sticking to the text. Did you say
that the text does not speak of redemption/atonement?
Do I understand correctly that you are
saying that Apostle Paul would speak of the Man's kingship apart from the Man's
work of redemption/atonement?
Matthew 28
18¶And Jesus came and spake unto them,
saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
His Messianic kingship and His messianic work of redemption are inseparable.
Sing F Lau
The man spoken of is king. The same king
David prophecied in Ps 2, Kiss the son, lest he be angry... Allegiance is due because He is king... Not because He is the redeemer.
---------
Ps 2 speaks of the Messianic King as the
result of His work of redemption...
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath
said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Verse 7 speaks of His resurrection.
Some speak of Christ's kingship apart from
His work of redemption... but this is my first time hearing such an idea.
Adam Wells
Sing F Lau: Jesus is the man being declared
by Paul. Jesus is the man who God will use to judge the world. To Jesus, every
knee will bow. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall
bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give
account of himself to God. - Rom 14:11-12 (Will only the elect give an account
of himself to God?)
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him,
and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus
every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things
under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is
Lord, to the glory of God the Father. - Phil 2:9-11
Do you believe that only elect will bow???
Paul declared that God "commandeth all men every where to repent."
Adam Wells
Sing F Lau Yes, I'm sticking to the text.
Did you say that the text does not speak of redemption/atonement?
I did not say that. What I am trying to get
across to you is that ALL MEN EVERYWHERE owe allegiance to Christ and should
repent of dishonoring Him.
Do you deny this? Please say it plainly.
Robert Cook Sr.
Adam Wells: I was going from memory from yesterday my impression was someone
said they were not saved and after reading again I see it was you. " No, they were not saved. The opposite is true. They were worshipping idols and
unknown gods!" So without you following up and answering Sing's question
"in what way" the conclusion must be assumed you were speaking of
eternal salvation since 99% of the Christian world is wrong on this point.
Sing F Lau
Adam Wells, I copy and paste your previous
comment:
"You are correct... But the passage does
not speak of redemption/atonement."
Your words,"... the passage DOES NOT
speak of redemption/atonement."
Adam, you most certainly did say that!
Adam Wells
Sing F Lau: "Now you are saying that
Apostle Paul spent so much time with the Athenians without preaching the gospel
of the Man whom God has ordained to judge the world in righteousness!
Hmmmmm."
Did I? The passage speaks nothing of
redemption. You imposed such by YOUR logic. We must stick with the text.
The text says: Then Paul stood in the midst
of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are
too superstitious. 23For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an
altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly
worship, him declare I unto you. 24God that made the world and all things
therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples
made with hands; 25Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed
any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; 26And hath
made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth,
and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their
habitation; 27That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after
him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: 28For in him we
live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have
said, For we are also his offspring. 29Forasmuch then as we are the offspring
of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or
stone, graven by art and man's device. 30And the times of this ignorance God
winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31Because he hath
appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that
man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in
that he hath raised him from the dead. 32And when they heard of the
resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again
of this matter. 33So Paul departed from among them. 34Howbeit certain men clave
unto him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a
woman named Damaris, and others with them. Acts 17:22-33
From the above, how do you come to think that Paul was calling them, whether elect or no, to a redeemer from sin? Paul based his argument that all men everywhere should repent because judgement day is coming! That is FAR DIFFERENT than inviting them to believe on a savior. Are you able to see the distinction?
Sing F Lau
First, you said, "All men are responsible to
acknowledge the creator."
Then you said, "ALL MEN EVERYWHERE owe allegiance to
Christ and should repent of dishonoring Him."
If the passage does not speak of
redemption/atonement but speaks of the Creatorship of God, how can you now
introduce the idea of allegiance to Christ, who accomplished the
redemption/atonement for His people?
That's where I was lost.
Sing F Lau
Adam, you would think Apostle Paul could speak of the man
ordained by God to judge the world in righteousness... and speak of the
resurrection of the dead... and conclude that Apostle Paul did not call on the
hearers to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ??? The text says, "certain
men... believe... and others with them."
What or who did they believe? Did Apostle Paul preach Christ and Him crucified, and His resurrection to the Athenians?
Adam Wells
Sing F Lau: "What or who did they
believe? Did Apostle Paul preach Christ and Him crucified, and His resurrection
to the Athenians?"
Are you reading into the text what you want it to say? Yes, the scripture teaches redemption, election, and many other things. What does this passage say... stick to it rather than imposing your thoughts based on what you know scripture teaches. Paul is certainly not saying here that God winked at the sins of the elect who worshipped idols.
Sing F Lau
The passage includes these words:
30 And the times of this ignorance God
winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath
appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that
man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in
that he hath raised him from the dead.
32 And when they heard of the
resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again
of this matter.
33 So Paul departed from among them.
34 Howbeit certain men clave
unto him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a
woman named Damaris, and others with them. Acts 17:30-34
======
It speaks of:
- the glorified Christ, "that man whom
he (God) has ordained; by Christ God will judge the world in righteousness.
- Christ, the redeemer, was raised from the
dead.
- Some wanted to hear more about the
resurrected Lord Jesus Christ.
- Some repented and believed the gospel
truth that was ALREADY true of them... of these their ignorance was dispelled
by the gospel truth delivered by the Apostle Paul.
Which bit did I read into the passage?
Kindly show me.
Thanks for your kind assistance.
Robert Cook Sr.
Question 1) All those who have thought God was worshipped in
idolatry, primarily since the word of God was only given to the Jews and the
gentiles were left in ignorance. "At the time of his ignorance God winked
at or did not judge them for worshipping in ignorance.
Who is capable of knowing there is a God to be worshipped
anyway? From what I understand from Scripture it is by faith we believe the
worlds were framed by the Word of God and the He is a rewarder of them that
diligently seek him. We also know that natural man will not seek God.
So I conclude that the overlooking being done was upon the
regenerate elect who were deceived to worship idols. Now that the Gospel is
being preached all the regenerate elect are commanded to repent of idolitry and
turn and serve the living and true God as did the Thessalonians. Someone had
commented that anyone worshipping idols were not eternally saved, I ask who was
Solomon and what did he do?
I suspect this entire text is about worship in spirit and truth
John 4:21-24.
Sing F Lau
Robert Cook Sr.: Thanks, Sir O'bert. You
make sense
"... the regenerate elect were
deceived to worship idols."
Being ignorant and being deceived are
different, I think. If I'm ignorant, I don't know and am not aware of the truth;
to be deceived implies knowing the truth but sweet-talked to believe/do otherwise.
Eve knew the truth but was deceived.
Robert Cook Sr.
Sing F Lau: Being led to worship idols then.
Thank you for the clarification.
After having taken a walk I ask the
question can an ignorant person be taught something wrong by a teacher
and thereby deceive the hearer? Of course, that is so. So I am not convinced
that to be deceived requires prior knowledge. Deception is convincing someone a
thing is true when the teacher knows it to be false. Ultimately idolatry comes
from Satan and we all have fallen prey to him.
Adam Wells
Robert Cook Sr.: Someone had commented that
anyone worshipping idols was not eternally saved, I ask who was Solomon and
what did he do?
Did someone talk about eternal salvation or did you impose such a thought upon the words of him who wrote?
Sing F Lau
Robert Cook Sr.: Being led to worship idols
then. Thank you for the clarification.
---------
No, for lack of knowledge of the truth,
i.e. ignorant of the truth, they (the children of God, regenerated elect in
every nation) worship God with whatever light they had.
Cornelius, and such like him in every nation in every generation, worship God ignorantly.
Robert Cook Sr.
Sing F Lau: as to the Adam and Eve reference
Satan beguiled (deceived ) Eve but Adam simply complied without coercion.
Robert Cook Sr.
Sing F Lau "whatever light they
had" is hard to define in my mind as to the light they had, except that there
is a God and that we are accountable to Him.
God in regeneration teaches the heart but man teaches the mind. So the heart is not ignorant but the mind is. Satan fills that void of knowledge with idolatry. Remember he comes as an angel of light to deceive.
===========
Let me give my answers to the questions:
1. Whose ignorance did God overlook in times past?
- what were they ignorant of?
Answer: The ignorance of God's children among the Gentiles of all the nations of the world. They were ignorant of their redemption in and by Christ Jesus. That ignorance can only be dispelled by the gospel ministry of Christ and Him crucified.
2. Those whose ignorance God overlooked, were they saved? In what sense?
Answer: Yes, they were/are saved with the eternal salvation in Jesus Christ; however, their ignorance of the salvation in Jesus Christ deprived them of much joy, comfort, hope, peace, assurance, etc.
3. What's the effect of God overlooking their ignorance?
Answer: They were spared of the just displeasure of God. Please note that ignorance is NOT unbelief.
4. Why were those times of ignorance overlooked?
Answer: They did not have the opportunity to hear and know the truth of their salvation; redemptive truth was mainly restricted to the Jews in the old covenant.
5. What has brought the change; why will ignorance not be overlooked now?
Answer: The gospel truth of the redemption in and by Jesus Christ is now proclaimed throughout all nations.
6. Who are the men everywhere that are commanded to repent - every single person of the human race, or God's children (regenerated elect) scattered everywhere - commanded to repent and believe the truth concerning Christ?
Answer: God's children (regenerated elect) scattered in every nation are commanded to repent and believe the truth concerning Christ; they are commanded to believe the truth concerning their salvation in Jesus Christ; they are commanded to believe what's ALREADY TRUE of them.
Who is commanded and has the duty to believe the truth concerning Christ?
Take a look here: https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2011/05/what-is-ground-of-duty.html
