https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/10203563078693049
January
15, 2015
Biblical
distinction is the essence of sound theology
Ephesians 2:
5
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by
grace ye are saved;)...
8
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it
is the gift of God..."
Is
the salvation by the grace of God...
-
"through your faith in Christ," or
-
"through the faith of Christ."
Which
is spoken of in Eph 2:8?
Is
it saying
For
by grace are ye saved through your faith in Christ..., or
For
by grace are ye saved through the faithfulness of Christ...
Since
"by grace are ye saved" when you were STILL dead in trespasses and
sin, through whose or what faith were ye saved?
(Your faith in Jesus Christ? The you are capable of faith when still dead in trespasses and sin?)
These
are not difficult questions
Please
give me a simple and direct answer, without the so called deep analysis, the
reformed shibboleths, or the deformed jargons. Please, I have heard enough of
them!
Are
you capable of that - just a simple answer?
Thanks.
======
63 comments
Sing
F Lau
Has
the gospel truth of "BY/THROUGH THE FAITH Jesus Christ" ever
registered with you?
You
will never learn that precious truth if you don't read and learn from the KJ
Translation of God's word. There are perVersions.
Rom
3:22 - "BY FAITH OF..."
Even
the righteousness of God which is BY FAITH OF Jesus Christ unto all and upon
all them that believe: for there is no difference.
Gal
2:16 - "BY THE FAITH OF... BY THE FAITH OF..."
Knowing
that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but BY THE FAITH OF Jesus
Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified BY
THE FAITH OF Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the
law shall no flesh be justified.
Phl
3:9 - "THROUGH THE FAITH OF..."
And
be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but
that which is THROUGH THE FAITH of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by
faith.
Dan
Hya
The
context of Ephesians chapter 2 does not in anyway suggest or imply that it is
man's faith.
Linda
Lancaster
Dan,
the faith we have is the faith that we have been given from above. We have no
faith of our own.
Dan
Hya
I
couldn't agree more, Sis. Linda. I believe the point Bro. Sing wants to make is
not the "origin of faith" but "by whose faith" we have been
saved as Eph.2:8-9 teaches.
Linda
Lancaster
Dan,
they are one and the same thing, the origin and by whose 'faith' is GOD
Almighty.
Julio
Jr Perez Postrero
Faith
of the Savior..
Jesus
Christ, the author and finisher of man's faith.
Dan
Hya
No,
they are not. Man's faith from God is not causative of his salvation.
Christ's
faith or faithfulness in the redemptive work is.
Christ's
faith saves.
Man's
faith is for pleasing God, for, without it, it is impossible to please God.
If
you believe they are one and the same, Bro. Sing's question necessitates the
distinction.
Julio
Jr Perez Postrero
Faith
of the Savior that saves eternally. And man's faith is just one of the fruit of
salvation...
Man's
faith can't save eternal.. only the faith of JESUS CHRIST..
a
big difference!..
Linda
Lancaster
The
faith I have in the redemptive work of Christ on the cross is a gift from God
The faith I have has been given to me by Jesus. I have no faith of my own. I have the faith of Jesus that enables me to believe in his redemptive work until salvation and eternal life.
Julio
Jr Perez Postrero
Jesus
Christ did not give man faith to save themselves eternally.
That is a big error.
He
is the Saviour alone.
He
is enough.
Man should not partake in the glory that only belongs to Christ... shame to man.
Man's faith is not the cause of salvation..it is the result of being saved... Gal 5;22
Linda
Lancaster
I did
not say that Julio, I know that He is the Saviour, but I have to believe that
He is the Saviour and that is why I have to have the gift of faith that is
given to me by God/Jesus.
Julio
Jr Perez Postrero
Why do you have to believe that He is the Saviour? Does that make you saved?
It's
become your choice. Please try to understand the context of eph.2:8-9,
Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Can you answer this question from the bible. Tnx.
Sing
F Lau
Why
is it so difficult?
Is salvation by the grace of God......
-
"through your faith in Christ," or
-
"through the faith of Christ."
That
is a question simple enough, isn't it?
If
it is unclear to you, please say so.
Then
I will make it less clear for you.
What
is your answer?
Sing
F Lau
"...
they are one and the same thing, the origin and by whose 'faith' is GOD
Almighty."
This
is why this apostolic command is ever relevant:
2Ti
2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be
ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Linda
Lancaster
Because
the bible says in Rom 10:9 "that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus
Christ is Lord, and believe (have the faith of God) in your heart that God
raised him from the dead, you will be saved" Rom 10:10 "For it is
with your heart that you b… See more
Sing
F Lau
Some
sincere folks are SO OBSESSED with the faith that the Spirit of God worked in
them (and which enabled them to believe) - that they are incapable of reading
what the Scriptures speak about the FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST in their salvation!!!
They
just keep on blah blah blah about their faith (which they piously qualify as a
gift from God. They don't reveal the HARD fact they are the ones who must do the
believing, without which they would remain incapable of being saved by God.)
That much for their pious and religious talk!
Sing
F Lau
The
Bible declares that EXCEPT a man be born again, THAT IS, given eternal life,
SAVED by God, he CAN NOT see, nor enter the kingdom of God? Why? He is still
in his native state of sin and death.
Confession
- seeing, and entering - can only be made by those ALREADY SAVED by God's free
grace.
Linda
Lancaster
Sing,
it is through the faith of Christ that enables me to believe that I am saved by
grace
Sing
F Lau
No,
Linda.
It
is through the faith of Christ Jesus THAT YOU ARE SAVED!
It
is through the faith the Spirit of God worked in you that enables you to
believe that you are saved.
You
are just not willing to acknowledge that truth from Eph 2:8.
You
are obsessed with the faith worked in you by the Spirit of God.
The
faith of Christ and the faith the Spirit of God worked in you are TOTALLY TWO
DIFFERENT THINGS!
Linda
Lancaster
Sing,
I will inbox you, because my computer is very slow at the moment, only 2g.
Sing
F Lau
Say
all that you need to say here. Thanks. So, don't inbox me. It will not be read.
Julio
Jr Perez Postrero
It's
because God saved you first before you can have faith from the Lord...
Julio
Jr Perez Postrero
Faith
of man cometh by hearing...simply to please God, not to be used to get eternal
life...very big error.
Jenny
Fry
Jn3:16
Dan
Hya
Sis.
Linda, since you acknowledge that faith comes from or originates with God, do
you also acknowledge that a man dead in sins does not possess faith?
I
hope this method will be more helpful.
Julio
Jr Perez Postrero
Jn
3:16 does not mean faith comes first before eternal life.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
"Lest any man should boast."
Sing
F Lau
Jenny
Fry, John 3:16 has no magic! <LOL>
John
3:16 is a statement declaring a FACT about the believing ones - they have
everlasting life, they POSSESS eternal life, the explanation for their
believing. And the fact that they possess everlasting is attributed to God SO
LOVED them in Jesus Christ.
Even
so, "Whoever eats has life..." This is a statement declaring
something about whoever eats; such has life, possesses life, and is in the
state of living! The statement does not offer life to the dead who will but
eat. All the sound-minded people instantly recognize and acknowledge that to
make the statement to mean the latter is just sheer stupidity, lacking common
sense.
But
so many insist that that is what John 3:16 says, i.e. it is making an offer to
the dead, that whosoever will believe shall receive everlasting life!
Julio
Jr Perez Postrero
Through
faith of Christ..that's what the bible teaches.
Julio
Jr Perez Postrero
That's
for u... glory to you.
What about the faith of Christ?
Julio
Jr Perez Postrero
Galatians
2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the
faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be
justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the
works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Jenny
Fry
I
believe in God's Word as it stands. "....Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
And they said, Believe on The Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be
saved...." Couldn't be clearer than that
Julio
Jr Perez Postrero
A
man is justified by the faith of WHO?
What salvation is talking about? Jenny Fry? Eternal salvation?
Did you study the context?
Jenny
Fry
Eternal
life.
Eternal
life with God
Julio
Jr Perez Postrero
There
are types of justification, timely and eternal justification, that speaks about
eternal justification..
Do
you mean, eternal justification is not by grace?..
Julio
Jr Perez Postrero
There
are also types of salvation.. time salvation and eternal salvation...
You
are lacking in this... Jenny Fry.. you mixed the types of salvation..that
is your problem... that's why you rather choose to believe the error than what
is really the bible teaches.
Julio
Jr Perez Postrero
Matthew
24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Luke 1:71
That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate
us; Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save
yourselves from this untoward generation. 1 Peter 3:21 The like figure
whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth
of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection
of Jesus Christ:
Jenny
Fry
But
in both instances that I quoted, it was eternal salvation meant. Again I say, I
believe God's Word as it stands!!
Sing
F Lau
I
believe God's Word as it stands. "....Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
And they said, Believe on The Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be
saved...." Couldn't be clearer than that
======
That
sounds so pious and religious, "I believe God's word as it stands."
The
jailer asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
If
it couldn't be clearer than that, then help to answer a few simple questions:
- What
did the jailer want to be saved from, do you know?
- What
was uppermost in his mind when he uttered that question? His head or his
deliverance from eternal condemnation?
- Why did he want to take his own life?
And
was Apostle Paul asking a man STILL DEAD in his native state of trespasses and
sins [i.e. NOT SAVED] to perform a spiritual act in order to get SAVED? I know
there is no such STUPID people who ask a dead man to wink his eyes in order to
be made alive.
But
I have heard enough STUPID Christians saying that sinners dead in trespasses
and sins are commanded to do or perform some acts in order to get saved. And to
be sure they are understood, they added, they are talking about eternal
salvation.
There
is no need to be offended by my using the adjective STUPID. It simply means
LACKING COMMON SENSE. STUPID is a proper adjective.
Sing
F Lau
Good
night. It's 1.29am where I live. I just came in from my midnight walk.
Julio
Jr Perez Postrero
May
the grace of understanding from God...don't choose to be ignorant..
Tim
2:15.
Jenny
Fry
Sing,
why did the jailer fall down before Paul & Silas? Because he knew they were
responsible for all the miracles....they had been praying & singing praises
to God! Secondly, we were all dead in trespasses & sin when we asked Jesus
to save us.
Sing
F Lau
Jenny,
who do you think I should believe - you, or Jesus?
You
said, "we were all dead in trespasses & sin when we asked Jesus to
save us."
First,
I advise you to speak for yourself, "I was all dead in trespasses and
sins when I asked Jesus to save me." Don't speak for me UNLESS you are
given PLAIN instruction to do so.
Second,
Jesus speaks for me, and He said, "Except a man be born again (i.e given
eternal life, SAVED with eternal salvation), he CANNOT..... he CAN NOT see
(perceive the truth concerning the truth of) the kingdom of God... CAN NOT enter the kingdom of God.
You
have just believed the complete OPPOSITE.... that "the dead in trespasses
and sins can perceive who Jesus is and ask him to save him. BUT you have
claimed, "I believe God's Word as it stands." That's the greatest
joke!
You
have believed a BIG lie, and are oblivious of it... instead very haughty and
confident, claiming "I believe God's Word as it stands."
Go, think and reflect first before further comment. Thanks.
Jenny
Fry
Thirdly,
would Paul have told the jailer to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to save him
from physical danger? I don't think so.
Jenny
Fry
"And
Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but
they that are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to
repentance." Lk5:31-32
Sing
F Lau
Whether
you think so or not does not matter the least. What Christ Himself declares
alone matters.
A
man who is able to perform a spiritual act like believing is evidence of his
SAVED STATE by the free grace of God. A dead man cannot wink his eyes to be
made alive.
Believing
in the Lord Jesus Christ CAN and DOES save a man from all sorts of physical
dangers. It saved many Jews from being SLAUGHTERED and ROASTED like pigs by the
Romans in 70AD.
Read
Acts 2:37-40.
Go
and read the account of the jailer a bit closer. The jailer nearly took his own
life; why? Why did all the prisoners, though all their bonds loosened not
escape? What would have happened had only one of them escaped?
Please
stop blah blah blah like an odious woman!!! I advise go and think a bit. I have
given FAR too much time to a woman!
And
please don't just quote Scriptures. The devil does it very well, and I'm not
even impressed.
Constanzia
Dyess
Best
answer I know of, way more eloquently explained that my limited ability 🙂
http://flintriverpbc.org/rad.../183-that-verse-ephesians-2-8
Ronald
D Stewart
It
is not our faith but the faith given in grace from God when we hear; see; read;
the Word of God and the Holy Spirit makes us aware of our need as a sinner of a
Saviour; the blood is the only way to the Father / no exceptions /
His gift was His Son Jesus anything else would be an insult /for: "all
our works 'ARE' a filthy rag"
Sing
F Lau
"All
our works ARE a filthy rag"
===========
And
man's act of believing in Jesus Christ is among those WORKS. Jesus said so.
Some would be so impudent to dispute with Jesus again. Just wait and see!!!
John
6:28-29
Then
said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on
him whom he hath sent.
Believing
is a WORK done by those ALREADY SAVED by God.
Only
such are capable of believing.
Those
still in their native state of sin and condemnation are incapable.
Their
believing save them from lies, superstition, ungodliness, temporal consequences
of sins, etc, etc.
Norvel
Mann
Sing,
the text is self explanatory. We are saved by grace through faith and that
faith is the gift of God. There is no other way to read the text and be true to
the language.
Ronaldo
Lopez
KJV
Sing
F Lau
Elder
Man with a double 'n' has spoken!
Self-explanatory
indeed, but the minds of SO MANY, including PBs elders, are so
prejudiced... that they miss the plain obvious truth!
The
GIFT is eternal salvation through the redemption of Christ.
The
GIFT of that salvation is through faith.
Is
the GIFT of salvation by the grace of God...
-
"through your faith in Christ," or
-
"through the faith of Christ"?
