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| "And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake." |
https://www.facebook.com/groups/PrimitiveBaptistgroup/posts/5079664982084927
Jan
22, 2022
I asked a question:
Would
Abimelech (Gen 20) be one of those embraced by Apostle Peter's momentous
statement, "Of a truth, I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: but
in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted
with him" Acts 10:33-34 and Apostle Paul's words in Romans 2: "14 For
when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in
the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew
the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing
witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one
another"?
Thank
you.
=========
The following exchanges took place:
43
Comments
Robert
Cook Sr.
Yes
without question he had faith as evidenced by Abraham's statement about why he
deceived Abimelech."11
And Abraham said, "Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place, and they will slay me for my wife's sake."
Adam
Wells
Robert
Cook Sr. - Cornelius was a devout man as noted by others, apparently Abimelech
and his nation were not, hence Abraham's statement in vs 11.
Robert
Cook Sr.
Adam
Wells - Abraham thought something that was untrue Abimelech feared God and obeyed
Him. Abraham's opinion was just that uninformed! By reading about Abimelech's
behavior and obedience to God he was more righteous than Abraham in this
matter!
Robert
Cook Sr.
Adam
Wells - We know that natural man does not fear God ( Romans 3:11-19 ) Abimelech
rightfully rebuked Abraham by saying "and what have I offended thee, that
thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? thou hast done deeds
unto me that ought not to be done." Notice the word "SIN" God
spoke to Abimelech and he knew his voice
This
text is not spoken to an unregenerate "And God said unto him in a dream,
Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also
withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch
her."
I suggest you might pray about it and reconsider your conclusion!
Adam
Wells
Robert
Cook Sr. - I do not see proof that Abimelech feared God. He simply wanted to
avoid trouble/punishment. Read Luke 16. Do we see the rich man using words like
"repent?" It is a similar situation to the people of Nineveh
described in Jonah. These are not regenerate.
Robert
Cook Sr.
Adam
Wells - do you ever want to avoid trouble or punishment?
Robert
Cook Sr.
Adam
Wells - I might point out to you Abimelech repented, not only that but gave more
honor to Abraham than he deserved . so I see Abimelech fearing God, repenting
and showing extreme grace and kindness in addition to that God said " Yea,
I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart;" Do you see
that God Himself bore witness this man was upright ( had integrity ) of heart.
For the life of me I don't see how you can continue to deny what is obviously
true.
Adam
Wells
Robert
Cook Sr. - If you are consistent, the people of Nineveh were all regenerate as
well, for they fasted and repented. Do you believe this?
Robert
Cook Sr.
Adam
Wells - At least some had to be, beginning with the king he heard a word preached
by a man he never saw before about a God he never saw yet still believed in how
is that possible without FAITH? Some may have repented for fear of what the
king might have done to them, If the king was unregenerate then why would he
listen to Joanah any more than Pharaoh did to Moses? Me thinks you may have
read too many reformed commentaries brother!
Robert
Cook Sr.
Adam
Wells - The same is true even of Sodom, Tyre and Sidon Jesus said IF he had sent
a message of repentance to them they would have repented Matthew 11:21-24 . I
think you miss the idea of grace by your narrow interpretation.
Micah
J Milyard
Robert
Cook Sr. - I was hoping you’d bring this text up.
If
one were to deny the people of Nineveh the possibility of being regenerate I’d
say the burden of proof lies on them.
Sing
F Lau
Robert
Cook Sr. and Adam Wells ...
Please
tell, what did Abimelech consider a "great sin"? Thanks.
9 Then
Abimelech called Abraham, and said unto him, What hast thou done unto us? and
what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a
great sin? thou hast done deeds unto me that ought not to be done.
Robert
Cook Sr.
Sing
F Lau - put him and his nation in a position to offend God ... great point.
Sing
F Lau
Robert
Cook Sr. Offend God by taking another man's wife?
Robert
Cook Sr.
Sing
F Lau - Yes, this is why God visited Abimelech. Abraham put Abimelech in this
vulnerable situation by not being truthful!
Robert
Cook Sr.
Sing
F Lau - Two witnesses are sufficient for me to judge this matter.
1) God did not
rebuke Abimelech as to his heart's integrity but rather affirmed it.
2) Abraham changed his mind about whether there was anyone who feared God in this
place.
Adam
Wells
Robert
Cook Sr. - I'm trying to picture how this went down. Abraham and Sarah are
perhaps in their tent likely surrounded by his 300+ servants and many sheep. In
order to avoid conflict, he tells Abimelech's people that Sarah is his sister.
Then she simply agrees to go with them? Do you think Abraham simply let them
escort her away? Really??? However it went down, God took up Abraham's defense
and said "Behold, thou art but a dead man... if thou restore her not, know
thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine." If
Abimelech was completely righteous in the matter as you have stated, was the
LORD too harsh?
Robert
Cook Sr.
Adam
Wells - Are you supposing Abimelech forcibly took her, you need to prove that
instead of simply imply that. You have failed to address the FACT that GOD
affirmed Abimelech's statement regarding his hearts intention!
A
king responds to a dream?? Why would that even happen without some measure of
faith? Two witnesses are sufficient for me as stared above you need to take out
those witnesses or you are just peddling preconceived notions.
Robert
Cook Sr.
I
would add Romans 2:7 to your texts as well.
Marty-Sandy
Smith
I
believe that is so, and attempted to preach that a few years ago:
http://unionpbc.com/mp3/20180513_Marty_Smith.mp3
Robert
Cook Sr.
Marty-Sandy
Smith - loved the entire message thank you, brother.
Sing
F Lau
Q4.
Is 'the work of the law written in their hearts' [i.e those Gentiles that are
doers of the law] a reference to that innate moral attribute stamped upon their
nature as the moral creature made in the image of God?
-
If it is, then this work would be true of every man, whether Jew or Gentile,
wouldn't it?
-
If it is, then every man, whether Jew and Gentile, would be a doer of the law,
wouldn't he? (since being a doer of the law is directly attributed to the work
of the law written upon their hearts?
-
If it is, then who are those described in v8 and 9 - are they the doers of the
law also, or are they the breakers of the law? Do they have the work of the law
written upon their heart also?
-
If it is, then why there are two distinct groups mentioned in verses 7-10?
-
If it is, and since every man has these innate moral attributes, why isn't
every man a doer of the law, the Jews as well as the Gentiles??? Who are there
those described in verses 8 and 9?
-
If it is NOT, then what is this work of the law written in their hearts that
distinguish them from the rest of the fallen humanity whom Apostle Paul has
described in 1:18-32.
Q5.
Is 'the work of the law written in their hearts' [i.e those Gentiles that are
doers of the law] a reference to that divine work at the effectual call to
grace and salvation of these Gentiles?
-
If it is, does this divine work explains why these particular Gentiles are
doers of the law in contrast to the general mankind who obeys unrighteousness
and does evil?
-
If it is, does this divine work explains the NEW nature of those Gentiles, by
which those Gentiles do by nature the things on the law?
-
If it is, how did God perform this divine work? Was it through having the
written law of God?
-
If it is, how did God perform this divine work? Was it through the instrument
of some human activities like preaching?
-
Does the Scripture anywhere speak of and declare concerning this divine work of
writing the law upon the mind and heart of man? Check Heb 8:10, John 6:44-45.
Excerpt
from here
https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2008/01/romans-211-16-law-written-in-their.html
Romans
2:11-16 "The Law Written in their Hearts" - is it nature, or grace?
THINGS-NEW-AND-OLD.BLOGSPOT.COM
Robert
Cook Sr.
Sing
F Lau - I will look at your good response later but wanted to add verse 7 again
because many say those who striving by works to please God are eternally lost but
I believe their striving to be accepted is evidence of their faith without
knowledge of Grace.
Sing
F Lau
Robert
Cook Sr. and Adam Wells ...
11¶ And
Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place;
and they will slay me for my wife's sake.
Do
these words of Abraham indicate that what he had thought - the absence of the
fear of God - was equally "surely" mistaken?
It's a sober reminder and a shame that even a godly man like Abraham could think the worst of others.
Robert
Cook Sr.
Sing
F Lau - Abraham freely admits he was wrong.
Reply24w
Robert
Cook Sr. That there was fear of God in that place?
Robert
Cook Sr.
Sing
F Lau - Abraham said himself "I Thought" not I am sure there is no fear
of God in this place!
Adam
Wells
Robert
Cook Sr. - "And Abimelech said unto Abraham, What sawest thou, that thou hast done
this thing? 11And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is
not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake."
What did Abraham think? That they would kill him for his wife's sake... because "Surely the fear of God is not in this place." Notice the CONTEXT in which he made the statement. He was responding to Abimelech's question "What sawest thou?"
Robert
Cook Sr.
Adam
Wells - Abraham said "I thought" your snippet has context!
Robert
Cook Sr.
Adam
Wells - Go back to Genesis 12 this is not the first time Abram did this to Sarah!
Adam
Wells
Robert
Cook Sr. - Proves my point. Why would men in these places (including Egypt) he
sojourned kill him... because they feared God?
Robert
Cook Sr.
Adam
Wells - OH so anyone who murders is unregenerate?? I don't think that precept can
be supported by Scripture; that is an opinion that some hold but reality and the
Bible refute that idea!
Robert
Cook Sr.
Adam
Wells Abram was greatly rewarded for Sarah the first time He profited from her
beauty!
Adam
Wells
Robert
Cook Sr. - "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers,
and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their
part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second
death." - Rev 21:8
It
is safe to say of societies where the above sins abound that "Surely the
fear of God is not in this place."
Context
is important.
Robert
Cook Sr.
Adam
Wells - So be it then you answered none of my questions I answered all of yours
we are not having a dialogue but rather you are simply reinforcing your
preconceived notion. GOD affirmed, get it affirmed, what Abimelech said, and
Abraham changed his position about thinking there was no fear of God in this
place. I'll take the two witnesses over your forced opinion.
Robert
Cook Sr.
All
these sins are present in each one of us and were even in Corinth, yet GOD said
I have MUCH people in this city!
Adam
Wells
Robert
Cook Sr. - I do not see how you conclude that Abraham changed his mind about
Abimelech. Where does it say that?
If
I didn't answer your questions forgive me. I took your statements as rhetorical
and not legit. Please restate would you would like answered and I'll be happy
to do so.
And such were some of you... spoken to the Corinthians.
Robert
Cook Sr.
Adam
Wells - take the time to read and comprehend brother.
Sing
F Lau
Adam
Wells @ "I do not see how you conclude that Abraham changed his mind about
Abimelech. Where does it say that?"
------
I'm
surprised you can't see Abraham's admission of serious misjudgement.
OK.
I agree with you since I don't read Abraham saying, "Sorry, I surely
misjudged that surely there is no fear of God in this place."
I read that everything Abimelech did after being warned by God amounted to slaps in the face of Abraham for his grievous misjudgment of Abimelech; Abimelech is a man who fears God by his actions.
Robert
Cook Sr.
Adam
Wells - I point you also to Genesis 26 not only was Abraham wrong twice so was
his so same exact scenario.
Sing
F Lau
Robert
Cook Sr. and Adam Wells,
Gen
20:4 "But
Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a
righteous nation?"
Abimelech's
defended himself as a righteous nation; was he just vainly boasting, or there
was some truth to it?
How
did the LORD view that plea?
A thought crossed my mind; if Mr Biden had said those words "wilt thou also slay a righteous nation", would the LORD take it the same way He took Abimelech's plea?
Robert
Cook Sr.
Sing
F Lau - The Lord did not address the Nation issue but rather the personal issue
about Abimelech's heart and said "also" God gave in addition to
Abimelech's own restraint protection to Sarah for His own purpose.
Adam
Wells
Sing
F Lau - Righteous concerning the dealings with Sarah (thinking she was available)
for he had not yet come near her.
