.jpg) |
| "I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." THAT IS... You WON'T be where Jesus is UNTIL He comes AGAIN to receive you unto Himself so that where He is they you may be also!!! |
Kenchin
Hello Pr Lau in the bible study last Wed. You mentioned that Paradise was an
intermediate state where the Lord Jesus was absent. As you are aware, the Greek word for Paradise
is used 3 times - Luke 23:43 – As He hung upon the cross, Jesus assured the
repentant criminal, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
The promise locates Paradise in the immediate presence of Christ, accessible at
the moment of death for the believer.
2
Corinthians 12:4 – Paul speaks of being “caught up to Paradise and heard
inexpressible words, things that man is not permitted to tell.” His vision
authenticates Paradise as a real, conscious realm beyond earthly experience.
John
Gill - heaven is called paradise, because as the garden of Eden, which bears
that name, was of God's planting, so is this made and prepared by him; as that
was a delightful place, so is this; also because of Christ the tree of life,
which is in the midst of it, besides an innumerable company of angels, and
spirits of just men made perfect. Revelation 2:7 – The risen Lord promises the
overcomer “the right to eat from the tree of life in the paradise of God.
Paradise is where God and our Lord Jesus Christ are present.
------------
Sing
Brother Kenchin, thanks for your thoughts on the bible study.
Paradise (para-deisos) does indeed occur 3 times, as you have indicated.
It’s indeed common to equate paradise with heaven (ouranos).
The same people also see “hell” (geenna) as synonymous with the “lake of fire” (limnē pyr). That’s what I was taught and parroted for 20+ years. I didn’t know better.
Our gracious Lord has given me a little more light on the matter.
1. These are some word facts:
a. Paradise (para-deisos) occurs 3 times in the NT
b. Hell
(geenna) occurs 23 times in 23 verses in the NT; 15 times are used by Christ
Himself, many of them in the context of His solemn warnings to His own
disciples.
c. Heaven (ouranos) occurs 255 times in 237 verses in the NT. Not all refer to
that eternal abode of God and resurrected saints.
d. Lake
of fire (limnē pyr) - occurs 4 times in 4 verses (Rev 20,21).
(Check these with the helpful BlueLetterBible app.)
2. A careful reading of these relevant texts makes a few things self-evident:
a. Hell and paradise are spoken of in the context of the intermediate/disembodied state: the state between physical death and the
resurrection at Christ's second coming.
b. Hell and paradise are in the context/realm of
time between physical death and the general resurrection (which marks the end
of time, and the dawn of eternity for man).
c. Hell
and paradise are the realms of the spirits of the dead. Their bodies are under
the power death.
d. The redeemed may end up in hell but NONE in the lake of fire.
- Read all those solemn warnings of Christ addressed to His own disciples. Mt
5:22,29,30. Mt 10:28; 18:9; Mk 9:43.45.47; Disciples must take drastic measures
to deal with personal sins to avoid hell.
- There is not one instant of Christ warning His disciples against the lake of
fire. Why is that?
e. At the end of time, BOTH death (that holds captive the bodies) and hell (that
holds captive the spirits) shall be EMPTIED; death and hell shall surrender all
its captives to Him who holds the keys of hell and of death (Rev 1:18) for the
general resurrection. Rev 20:13.
- The EMPTIED death and hell shall be cast into the lake of fire. Rev 20:14.
- The spirits that have been ushered into paradise (after the judgment at
death) shall accompany Christ in His second coming. 1Th 4:14. These shall be
united with their resurrected bodies.
f. Heaven is the abode of the resurrected glorified saints. Those who have part
in the first resurrection (Mt 27:52,53) are now in heaven (Rev 20:4-6, a 3-verse
paragraph that speaks of the first resurrection)
- The redeemed dead do not enter heaven at death; their spirit either go to
paradise or hell.
- Their judgment at death is according to works.
- Their judgment at the resurrection is according to their name in the book of
life, redeemed by Christ.
3. You quoted John Gill. Let’s listen to him then on this point:
Commenting on Heb 9:27 “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after
this the judgment.”
He
said: "... There is a particular judgment which is immediately after
death; by virtue of which, the souls of men are condemned to their proper state
of happiness or woe; and there is an universal judgment, which will be after
the resurrection of the dead, and is called eternal judgment, and to
come..."
The particular (and temporal) judgment which is immediately after death
determines the proper state of happiness (paradise) or woe (hell) during the
intermediate state.
The universal (and eternal) judgment which follows the general resurrection
determines the proper state during the eternal state.
4. I leave you with a few related questions:
a. Why do some preachers preach hell?
- What do they want to achieve by it?
- To whom did Christ preach hell? For what purpose?
5. Christ’s words: John 14:2-3
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told
you. I go to prepare a place for you.3 And if I go and prepare a place for you,
I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may
be also.
What are some obvious conclusions from these words of Christ?
- What is Christ referring to, paradise or heaven?
- Why must the disciples WAIT till Christ WILL COME AGAIN to be with Him if at
death they are ALREADY with Him?
- What shall happen when Christ come again?
- When shall the redeemed be received unto the Father’s house where Christ is?
Feel free to ask any further questions.
I’m still learning. May our Lord bless us learn and grow together Amen.
2Ti 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all
things.
=========
Calice
Thanks, pastor, for sharing the exchanges.
Just a
quick comment:
Kenchin
mentioned 3 main points:
Due to
time constraints, I will just comment on the first:
1. He heard Pastor Lau said Jesus Christ was
absent in Paradise. Did he hear or
understand wrongly?
Pastor,
please help clarify this first point first. Thanks
Sing
Kenchin @ Hello, Pr Lau, in the bible study last Wed. You mentioned that Paradise was an
intermediate state where the Lord Jesus was absent.
-------------
There
may be various reasons why he perceived what he heard I said that way...
- His basic presupposition is that paradise is synonymous with the eternal
heaven.
- Therefore, if Jesus is not in paradise, then He is not in heaven!
- If Jesus is not in heaven, then where can He be?
Wrong
presuppositions have their necessary implications and create unnecessary and
false problems.
After
death, Jesus' spirit went to paradise. Then His spirit returned and was united
to his glorified body at resurrection at dawn of the first day of the week (our
Sunday 6 am - 6 pm, first night of the week is Sat 6 pm - Sun 6 am. Jewish week
starts on Sat 6pm… )
Genesis
1:5 KJV — And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And
the evening (6 pm- 6 am) and the morning (6 am-6 pm) were the first day.
After
His resurrection, He was with the disciples for 40 days, Acts 1:3.
Then
He ascended to His Father in heaven. Acts 1:9ff
The
words of the resurrected Lord to Mary...
John 20:17 KJV — Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended
to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my
Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
The
spirit of Jesus, as real and true a human as anyone who is reading these words,
went to the paradise in His disembodied state.
The
resurrected Jesus has been received up into heaven.
Rejoice,
He shall return one day... He said these words to His disciples.
John
14
1 ¶Let
not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In
my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you.
I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you
unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
Did you read - you WON'T be where Jesus is UNTIL He comes AGAIN to receive you unto Himself so that where He is they you may be also!!!
Sunny
Enoch & prophet Elijah who did not seek death. Are they in Paradise? Or are
they already in heaven with our Lord?
Sing
You are right, neither of them seek death. Both Enoch and Elijah did not see/experience
death.
Genesis 5:24 KJT — And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
God
took him - body and spirit, the whole person. It necessarily implies that God
changed/ transformed/glorified him, making him fit for habitation in heaven.
Similarly
for Elijah.
2 Kings 2:11 KJT — And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked,
that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted
them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
This
earthy body of flesh is completely unfit for heaven; it must be
transformed/changed/glorified by God first, i.e. made fit to inhabit heaven.
The
same will happen to those who are still living at Christ's second coming.
1
Corinthians 15 KJT
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be
changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet
shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be
changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on
immortality.
Since
they didn't see death (spirit did not separate from the body), they must have
been changed/transformed/ glorified, i.e. made fit to dwell in heaven.
