Monkish Fable : Faith in Christ regenerates us into the children of God

 

What a Monkish Contrast!

A theologian, held in awe by many, in his zeal in pitting faith against the law, makes this monkish contrast in his commentary on Galatians 3:26.

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"For we are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus."

Paul as a true apostle of faith always has the word "faith" on the tip of his tongue. By faith, says he, we are the children of God. The Law cannot beget children of God. It cannot regenerate us. It can only remind us of the old birth by which we were born into the kingdom of the devil. The best the Law can do for us is to prepare us for a new birth through faith in Christ Jesus. Faith in Christ regenerates us into the children of God. St. John bears witness to this in his Gospel: "As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name." (John 1:12.) What tongue of man or angel can adequately extol the mercy of God toward us miserable sinners in that He adopted us for His own children and fellow heirs with His Son by the simple means of faith in Christ Jesus!"

Taken from the link here
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/mlg/galatians-3.html

(I saw this on the Protestant Reformation FB page)

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"... The Law cannot beget children of God. It cannot regenerate us...  Faith in Christ regenerates us into the children of God."

The impotence of the law to beget is true. To conclude that faith can is a pure monkish fable, and so many Protestants believe the same. Luther's sola fide is a devil's lie. 

There are other serious errors in the above commentary. Can you spot them?

What a monkish contrast!

Was that what Protestant Reformers and their followers believed?
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On John 1:12, read an article here:
https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2012/07/to-them-gave-he-power-to-become-sons-of.html
May the Lord grant you to understand the truth and deliver you from fables. 
Amen

The righteousness merited by Christ

NO righteousness, no justification;
no justification, you remain in your condemnation! 

The righteousness merited by Christ:

- was freely DECREED for all the elect in eternity; this is justification by the decree of God; the fountain from which all the rest flowed.

- was freely SECURED at the cross, and freely IMPUTED to all the elect at the cross; this is justification by the blood of Christ, by the faith of Jesus Christ, i.e. His faithfulness in executing the work of redemption. 

- is freely APPLIED to each elect personally at their effectual calling out of their native state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation; justification freely by the grace of God.

- is EXPERIENCED and EVIDENCED by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; justification by faith in Christ. 

Understand these DISTINCT aspects of justification and save yourself from lots of inconsistencies and falsehood.

Eternal Redemption Rightly Divided

2Timothy 2:15 KJT
Study to shew thyself approved unto God,
a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the word of truth.

November 29, 2019
https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/pfbid0fgfpm5N56RBqEfrPFEeKYVzXNuUm4QrhBbqDqwJVYgpNeXUTHBMN9SHCoUo4E4hwl

#Eternal_Redemption_rightly_divided

- Purposed/Decreed before time
- Accomplished at the cross
- Applied at the effectual calling
- (Manifested/Experienced) at faith in Christ
- Consummated at the resurrection to glory

Hebrews 9:12 KJV — Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The are several distinct facets of Eternal Redemption:
1. Eternal Redemption Decreed for all the elect by God in eternity.
2. Eternal Redemption Accomplished for all the elect by the Lord Jesus Christ at the cross.
3. Eternal Redemption Applied to each elect personally in their effectual calling out of their native state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation.
[ 4. Eternal Redemption applied enables the manifestation of it in the lives of the redeemed to varying degrees... through the gospel ministry.]
5. Eternal Redemption Consummated when Christ returns to be glorified in His saints.

Aspects 1,2,3 and 5 are absolutely and equally true of every single elect - because all these are unconditional, by the free and sovereign activities of the Triune God, based solely on the redemption in Christ Jesus alone, without any aid of man.

Aspect 4 varies widely for each elect. Some have the benefit of the gospel ministry, while others do not. Those who do have the benefit of the gospel ministry are converted to varying different degrees... due to different degrees of obedience to the ministry, and also the different quality of the gospel ministry they are under.

1 Timothy 4:16 KJV — Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Compare that to this:

2 Peter 2:2 KJV — And many shall follow their [teachers of falsehood] pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

Are you a preterist? No, I'm a tarzan!

Are you a preterist?
No, I'm a tarzan.

 July 25, 2022
https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/videos/440238718000847

#preterist #preterism

Are you a preterist?
Some folks have been insinuating to men in the church, "Pastor Lau is a preterist." 
No, I'm a tarzan! 🤣🤣

In a sermon note here, Preterism is defined thus:
"Preterism: Generalized, all prophecies were fulfilled by 70 A.D. They call their doctrine full preterism, consistent preterism, or realized eschatology. Most Christians have never heard of it, due to its recent origin and few followers. With their timing verses, they bind every prophecy to Jerusalem’s destruction, even prophecies without time parameters. Amazingly, they hold that events Christians have always taught were future … actually happened by 70 A.D.! This includes Christ’s return, the resurrection of the dead, the Day of Judgment, the destruction of Satan, the millennium, the new heaven and new earth, etc." (red-bold emphasis is mine).

The above excerpt is taken from here https://letgodbetrue.com/sermons/index/year-2012/preterism/ 

I also have always believed that Christ’s second coming, the general resurrection of the dead, the great day of judgment, the destruction of Satan, and the new heaven [SINGULAR] and new earth are ALL FUTURE, that is, not yet fulfilled; the millennium is NOW, the gospel millennium, the ‘1000’ years, is between the first and the second comings of Jesus Christ, is being fulfilled.

So, whoever insinuates and tale bears that I’m a preterist is just a dull joker, if not wicked for stumbling friends. I'm more likely a tarzan! 🤣🤣🤣

Stop the silly antic of throwing labels around. 
*antic: ADJECTIVE, archaic: grotesque or bizarre.
Such antic is below the dignity of one who calls himself a Christian. 
Shame, shame. Bearing false witness is still a sin.

The Lake of Fire

Would a freezing place like this

be less horrifyingly fearsome than the lake of fire?

September 27, 2014
https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/10202884440327514

The Lake of Fire

This is specifically mentioned 4 times in the Scriptures, all at the end of Revelation.
Who will end up in the lake of fire when this present world ends?

1. Re 19:20 "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

# Both the beast and the false prophet (both singular) shall be cast alive into the lake of fire.
# The prophetic perfect "were cast" indicates the absolute certainty of such happening, therefore as good as has happened.

2. Re 20:10 "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
# The devil the deceiver shall be cast into the lake of fire, where his lackeys the beast and the false prophet, are.

3. Re 20:14 "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."
# Death and hell shall be cast into the lake of fire... after death and hell have delivered up the dead which was in them, v13.
# Hell and the lake of fire are distinct - that's quite plain. Hell spans between death and resurrection, whereas the lake of fire begins after the general resurrection.
# God's children shall be forever free from them (i.e. death and hell) after their resurrection unto glory. Death and hell did harass them until then.

4. Re 20:15 "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
# All those whose names had NOT been written in the Lamb's book of life, those bypassed in the redemption by Jesus Christ, were cast into the lake of fire. 
# Every one whose name is found written in the book of life has been redeemed by Christ from the lake of fire.

THEREFORE, all of God's elect, none excepted, shall be resurrected unto eternal glory, all based solely on the eternal redemption that God had purposed for them in eternity, that Christ Jesus had secured for them at the cross, and that the Father has freely applied at His own appointed time that eternal redemption to each one of them when each was still dead in trespasses and sins, thus making them fit for eternal glory. NOTHING else enters the equation for glorification.

Romans 8
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

All the verbs are solely the free and sovereign activities of God, independent and exclusive of man's activities.

That's just plain grace... unadulterated nor contaminated.

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26 Comments

Ken Bussell
On point three... Hell is a mistranslation. The Greek word is hades, equivalent to the Hebrew word Sheol (see Acts 2.27 and Psalm 16.10). Hades is not hell. Hades is cast into the lake of fire, which is hell.

Sing F Lau
I'm Chinese and know a little KJ English and no Greek whatsoever. What is the Greek for hell, and lake of fire? Thanks.

Ken Bussell
Typically the greek word gehenna is translated as hell. That is the word Jesus used to describe hell (Mat10.28, et al). The greek lemmas for lake of fire are limne ho pyr (literally lake of fire).

Sing F Lau
Ken, how are gehenna and Sheol, both of Hebrew origin, related?
And if, like you claim, the lake of fire is hell itself, why different Greek words are used? Thanks.

Ken Bussell
The Bible describes Sheol (Hades) as the grave, the place of the dead, under the earth. Jews believed that both the righteous and unrighteous dead were there, the unrighteous in torment and the righteous at rest with their fathers. Jesus describes Hades in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.

Jesus speaks frequently of GehennThe Bible describes Sheol (Hades) as the grave, the place of the dead, under the earth. Jews believed that both the righteous and unrighteous dead were there, the unrighteous in torment and the righteous at rest with their fathers. Jesus describes Hades in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.

Jesus speaks frequently of Gehenna, which literally means the Valley of Hinnom. It is the valley west of Jerusalem where pagans sacrificed their children in ancient times by burning them in fire. Jesus uses Gehenna as a name for the place of final punishment for the wicked. It is because of how Jesus uses it to describe final punishment that I believe Gehenna is the same as the lake of fire.

So you are correct that there is an intermediate state between death and resurrection where the unrighteous suffer in torment. But the correct Hebrew name for it is Sheol (or Hades in Greek). Hell is an old English word and not found anywhere in the Biblical manuscripts, and its improper use leads to a lot of confusion, which you have rightly pointed out. The Bible describes Sheol (Hades) as the grave, the place of the dead, under the earth. Jews believed that both the righteous and unrighteous dead were there, the unrighteous in torment and the righteous at rest with their fathers. Jesus describes Hades in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.

[sing - Did Jesus use gehenna to describe final punishment or a description of the intermediate state? Or it's your own imagination? Apostle John was inspired to speak of the lake of fire as the place of eternal punishment after the general resurrection as the end of time.] 

Sing F Lau
Ken @ "Jews believed that both the righteous and unrighteous dead were there, t he unrighteous in torment and the righteous at rest with their fathers. Jesus describes Hades in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus."

Did they believe rightly? Do you take what the Jews believe as your authority? Is Jesus teaching in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus a confirmation of what the Jews believed?

What if I say the rich man is a child of God but lived unrighteously, therefore suffers in Hades before his resurrection to eternal glory?

Ken @ "It is because of how Jesus uses it to describe final punishment that I believe Gehenna is the same as the lake of fire."

If Gehenna is the same as the lake of fire, then why did Jesus so solemnly warned His disciples of the real danger of them ending up in gehenna? Was he confused? Was he lying?

Ken @ "Hell is an old English word and not found anywhere in the Biblical manuscripts..."

If 'hell' is an old English word, how would you expect it to be found anywhere in the biblical manuscripts - which were not in English?

Just some honest inquiries. I abhor inconsistencies!

Ken Bussell
"Did they believe rightly?" Yes, I think they believed rightly. Jesus' parable in Luke 16 is a retelling of a common rabbinic story of the time. I believe Jesus' telling it is a confirmation of its truth. However, I think Jesus' death and resurrection changed that reality.

"What if I say the rich man is a child of God..." That would be the doctrine of purgatory. I am not catholic, but I don't deny that purgatory is a reasonable doctrine.

"...why did Jesus so solemnly warned His disciples..." For many potential reasons. Primarily because many within the crowds of disciples were not true followers of Jesus. Secondarily because it was important for the disciples to know what to teach others.

"...how would you expect it to be found anywhere in the biblical manuscripts..." I don't expect that. I was simply pointing out that it is a word that causes confusion. It is better to stick with Biblical terms.

Charles Page
Purgatory as taught by RC is a very unbiblical doctrine, unreasonable. It implies atonement beyond death. Atonement is finished at the cross, applied monergistically by the Holy Spirit to the elect and availed by the regenerate in life before death. 

There is no further atonement availed by the regenerate after death as Catholics teach. 

Sing F Lau
"...how would you expect it to be found anywhere in the biblical manuscripts..." I don't expect that. I was simply pointing out that it is a word that causes confusion. It is better to stick with Biblical terms."
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So, it is better to just transliterate Hebrew and Greek words in translation then?
Do you really think the KJ translators believe that 'hell' and lake of fire' are one and the same???

Sing F Lau
I believe this one related thing is clear from the Scriptures:
- The elect have no danger whatsoever of ending up in the lake of fire... The bypassed non-elect have no possibility of escaping the lake of fire. "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.".
- God's children face a real danger of ending up in hell, and they are to walk and live carefully to avoid it. Otherwise, Christ is just bluffing and calling wolf when He warned His disciples [SIC] against the real danger of ending up in hell.
- At the resurrection, hell and death will deliver up all its guests, some to eternal glory reserved for them in Christ, and the rest to their just eternal damnation.

Charles Page
Ken @ "Primarily because many within the crowds of disciples were not true followers of Jesus. Secondarily because it was important for the disciples to know what to teach others."
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I wonder how people evade the Lake of Fire and how they enter Heaven? Do you go to Heaven by following Jesus and are you taught by others how to make it to Heaven? Do you think that Jesus' death and resurrection change that reality?

Ken Bussell
Sing, I think understanding the original languages is far better than relying on transliterations or translations. When you use the word hell to refer to the intermediate state, many Christians get confused because they think of hell as the final punishment.

Charles, Purgatory has nothing to do with atonement. It does not save those who are not saved. It has to do with refining the elect and preparing them for eternity. So while I disagree with the doctrine, I do not find it unreasonable.

[sing: Purgatory in Catholic doctrine: "a place or state of suffering inhabited by the souls of sinners who are expiating their sins before going to heaven."

The Romish purgatory is redemptive in nature; thus it strikes at the very heart of the gospel of Jesus Christ. It repudiates the finished work of Jesus Christ in redeeming His people; there is redemptive work left that sinners can do. How? In purgatory, “the souls of sinners… are EXPIATING their sins before going to heaven.”

Charles Page
Luke 16 addresses justice and not atonement and the elect need no further refinement I John 3:9 Their preparation for Heaven is absolute and complete, none excepted. There are two aspects to the salvation of the elect, eternal, absolute and unconditional through election from eternity and timely/temporal through believer's faith conditional on the environment, and circumstances afforded the regenerate child of God.

There is accountability before and after death and this is shown in justice. Any refinement takes place before death in the form of discipline and chastisement.

Hell is a real abode of the spirits while the body rests in the ground. Hell is divided by a chasm a place for the just and for the unjust. The non-elect and the unjust elect are in the torture of Hell. Paradise, the third Heaven is a place for the elect just in the eyes of God. All who die are in Hell waiting for the resurrection of the body and the final judgement. The non-elect in hell will be at that time cast into the Lake Of Fire. All the elect just and unjust will receive their reward and enter Heaven.

Sing F Lau
"When you use the word hell to refer to the intermediate state, many Christians get confused because they think of hell as final punishment."
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I'm only stating hell and the lake of fire in the way the Scriptures uses it!
Christians get confused because of their preconceived notions, not because of the simple statements of truth in the Scriptures.

Sing F Lau
When folks disagree with what the Scriptures PLAINLY teach, they find fault with the translation of the Scriptures. They get eloquent with their Greek and Hebrews!

I do give the God-fearing linguists/theologians translators of the KJB a whole lot more holy respect for their linguistic and theological acumen than the multitudes of all others added together when it comes to the translation of Holy Scriptures. Their Greek and Hebrews were not inferior to any modern bible students... and their stringent check-and-balance approach in the translation process is unsurpassed.

Hulan Bass
I agree with CP fully, except to the extent of the elect, during their time of death, with the body in the grave, BUT their Spirit does not go to any form of "hell" or torment, but BACK TO GOD WHO GAVE IT - Ecc. 12:7 so carefully consider the CONTEXT of verses surrounding V.7. AMEN

Charles Page
we all need to carefully consider the context of all verses!

Charles Page
The Bible describes Sheol (Hades) as the grave, the place of the dead, under the earth. Jews believed that both the righteous and unrighteous dead were there

The unrighteous in torment and the righteous at rest with their fathers. Jesus describes Hades in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.

Ken Bussell, it seems you are referencing two different places and you have the Hebrews making this same. You have everyone, righteous and unrighteous in the grave and another place where the righteous and unrighteous experience either torture or pleasure in their respective places. Does Sheol/Hades cover both designations?

"Thou will not leave my soul in Hell" is a promise to the unfaithful/unjust children of God that they will not be abandoned in Hell, a place of torture and that only the ones whose names are not written in the book will be cast along with Hell into the Lake of fire.

Marty-Sandy Smith
If there were a purgatory for refinement of the elect, it would astound me that the thief on the cross would not need it, but would immediately be in paradise, on the day of his death, with the Lord Jesus Christ.

Sing F Lau
Brother Marty, purgatory is not in the Bible, so there is no need to bring it up. Such a word would immediately complicate communication.

If there were a hell (as distinct from the lake of fire) for the ungodly children of God, it would astound me if the thief on the cross go there... the reason is simple. He had no opportunity to become ungodly to earn a place there before his resurrection to glory.

Sing F Lau
Elder Hulan, if the spirits of God's children does not go to any form of "hell" or torment, then what is the hell that Jesus Christ constantly and solemnly warned the disciples to avoid, and save themselves from? That has always puzzled me. If it is impossible for God's children even ending up in hell, then why all such warning?

The distinction the Scriptures made about hell and the lake of fire makes sense.

Charles Page
Elder Bass, you seem to imply that the rich man lifted up his eyes from below, indicating from the depth of the earth, grave, Sheol, Hades. All bodies lie in their respective graves where "it" waits for resurrection and there is no consciousness there.

"Lifting up the eyes" is a statement of consciousness and not an indication of logistics. Before his death, he was not aware of his unjust state (to the extent he was willing to correct it as he becomes aware of it after his death)

Man consists of visible and invisible. aspects (Trichotomy vs. dichotomy) The visible goes to the grave and is unconscious and the invisible returns to its creator in a conscious state. This applies to all alike and not just the righteous. Paul visited this invisible abode, third heaven, and knew not if he was in the body or out however he was in a conscious state.

He lifted up his eyes and saw things unlawful to repeat in a visible state.

He was aware of this abandonment and was willing to perish as an outcast if it meant the salvation of his own people of his flesh.

Charles Page
From Elder Hulan Bass in an e-mail message to me:
geenna (ghen'-en-nah; of Heb. or [1516 & 20ll]; valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hennom), a valley of Jeru., used (fig.) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment:

The idea that this locale indicates any eternal destruction is a modern fabrication and not of ancient Hebrew origin. It is a place where eventually trash/garbage was burned and it did not carry any eternal significance.

I grew up with city/county garbage sites and the trash burned/smouldered day after day never stopping until finally it was determined that it was an environmental issue and it was then buried. We don't burn waste we bury it or we have built special burning plants to burn sorted material. None of this has eternal significance.

As usual, this requires rightly dividing scripture concerning the subject of life after death.

It is making an unbiblical leap to assume that Gehenna is a place of eternal punishment.

Hell is eventually cast into the Lake of fire and here we have an eternal destruction/damnation. However, Hell and the Lake of fire are two separate designations. I believe this was not a subject foreign to Hebrews and Jesus' teaching concerning Hell was consistent with the Hebrew understanding. It is our modern understanding that is confused and it would be foolish to believe what Jesus spoke about it is consistent with what we traditionally believe about it.

Hell, Sheol, and Hades (all the many facets of Hell) are separate from the Lake of Fire.

Charles Page
We believe that eternal salvation is not the same as timely salvation yet the scriptures use the terms everlasting/eternal life to designate both. You have to rightly divide scriptures in the separate context of both.

So also Hell (torture of...) and Lake of Fire, both have the connotation of fire. both have the connotation of everlasting fire, the fire burns endlessly and the worm dieth not; there is no cessation of burning for the non-elect but they are cast into the Lake. The unjust, disobedient elect participate in the torture alongside the non-elect and Jesus referenced this togetherness of his disciples along with the non-elect. (the non-elect are in the truest sense unbelievers and are actually non-believers)

It would be an awful place to co-exist alongside the non-elect (and also fallen angels)

Charles Page
It could be that even Strongs and Youngs' Hebrew and Greek word studies carry this confusion. You are aware that scholars can be wrong about things? We rely on Greek and Hebrew "proper" exegesis and if we have a proper understanding of something we "think" we have the thing itself. We claim by it we can speak the infallible words of God on any subject.

Sing F Lau
Elder Hulan,
"Mt 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."
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What is that hell fire? Is that roasting by the Romans in 70AD... is it to be burned in the rubbish dump in Ge-Hennom?

Whatever, it is a REAL danger that the disciples are warned to avoid... they must, and can do something to avoid it. They can also end up there by their wickedness... The audience addressed are most definitely disciples.

Those shameless gospel regenerationists!

Proverbs 4:20 My son, attend to my words;
incline thine ear unto my sayings.

June 19, 2012
https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/3394819064736

Those shameless gospel regenerationists!

When will they come to their senses and stop lying?

Even common sense demands that regeneration must logically, necessarily and inevitably precede conversion.... and sometimes a long time prior!

It is common sense that preaching takes time... and hearing takes time... and understanding takes time... and believing takes time too. Without prior regeneration, there would be no hearing of spiritual things, no understanding of spiritual things... and therefore NO CONVERSION to the spiritual things.

There are endless biblical examples: consider the multitudes of DEVOUT Jews from every nation under heaven who came to Jerusalem to WORSHIP the LORD and were CONVERTED on the day of Pentecost... consider the Ethiopian eunuch, then Cornelius, then Lydia, etc, etc...

Apostle Paul stated plainly that the preaching of the gospel comes to them that ARE SAVED... those whom God HAS SAVED... and ONLY such can receive the gospel as the good news that declares the power of God has saved them.

But so many presumptuous and deluded preachers insist that the Holy Spirit regenerates through their preaching. They claim that they are involved in the work of regeneration through their preaching... that Jesus Christ gives eternal life through their preaching! BLASPHEMY is the only proper word to describe such a delusional claim!

Those shameless gospel regenerationists! They are not content in their calling to CONVERT God's children born of God Himself... they insist on their vital role in assisting God to FATHER God's children! Brazen usurpers!

And they LIE through their teeth that they still preach and teach eternal salvation by free grace alone... even though all along they insist that without their work of preaching there would be no regeneration... therefore no salvation!

They should just be honest and say that eternal salvation is CONDITIONED upon their work of preaching, and their hearers' work of believing!
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16 Comments

Dellis
So true, I thought it was common knowledge that one cannot respond to His call except that one has a spiritual nature so that he understands and believes the ONE who is calling.

sing
Gospel regenerationists would rant and rave that regeneration precedes faith... they would readily admit that... BUT STILL, they would insist that without their work of preaching, there would be no regeneration by God!

Dellis
Now you have me puzzled and interested. what am I missing about Romans 1:16 and the following verses? Man taking the credit?

sing
So sorry to puzzle you.
Rom 1:16 is very interesting... do you have any questions?
Please ask specifically.
May I draw your CAREFUL attention to something please?

Please note very carefully that Apostle Paul writes to those in Rome who are ALREADY the ‘called of Jesus Christ’, ‘beloved of God,’ and ‘called saints’. Such are found among ALL nations (ethnesin- from which we get ‘ethnic’), i.e. among all people groups. Apostle Paul is writing to such in Rome.
- His apostleship/apostolic ministry is intended for those whom he describes as ‘the called of Jesus Christ,’ ‘beloved of God,’ and ‘called saints.’ God is their Father, and Jesus Christ is Lord over them.
- Therefore Apostle Paul’s writing to these people must never be understood as teaching them HOW they can become the ‘called of Jesus Christ’, ‘beloved of God,’ ‘saints,’ and children of God.
- They ALREADY are such… and BECAME such without and before the hearing of the gospel. see 15:20.
- The popular lie of ‘gospel regeneration’, i.e. gospel preaching is the necessary prerequisite for regeneration is repudiated by the plain testimony of Scriptures.

The gospel ministry is ordained, and intended for such... 'called of Jesus Christ’, ‘beloved of God,’ and ‘called saints’.

And Apostle Paul is desirous to preach the gospel to them!!!

Gospel regeneration is a plain FABLE!

Dellis
I also wanted to include :1 Corinthians 1:21 "For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."

Still, the only ones who will answer the call are the ones who are regenerated before they hear the gospel, right? ie. salvation regeneration does not occur upon the hearing of the word/gospel.

sing
Good point. But very many cannot even rightly divide the eternal salvation that comes by the sovereign acts of God ALONE, from the temporal salvation (that which pertains to the well-being of God's children in the life here and now) that is conditioned upon human activities... like preaching, hearing, understanding, and believing and obeying!!!

A biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology... which is why Paul COMMANDED Timothy to rightly divide the word of truth.

Dellis
You are right and I see where you are coming from. What you just described is something I have come to understand as things that pertain to our relationship with God which is eternal and our fellowship with God which is based on our obedience to Him.

sing
One is sonship by the gracious activities of God, and the other is discipleship by His children. Both the Calvinists and their despised Arminian cousins are ignorant of this basic distinction and get themselves into big mess.

Sonship is by the pure and free grace of God alone in Jesus Christ through His Spirit, and is logically, necessarily and inevitably prior to discipleship. Sonship has to do with the BEING of a child of God; discipleship is the WELL BEING of a child of God.

The old school baptists understood this simple and basic truth.

Charles Page

Sing, does Kerry Culligan understand and agree with your position? Previously I have argued with him on the subject of particular atonement and found him to be more of a reformed bro rather than a sovereign grace bro. Anyway, he deleted me.

Dellis
Sing F Lau, I'm having a little trouble with a Calvinist not understanding this since it was there that I became aware of it. We have always believed that regeneration precedes faith and being so, does agree with the Sonship and discipleship concept. This is the same as I presented to you as relationship and fellowship, only the words used are different yet the concept is synonymous. Perhaps because of our differences of origin. I'm just a southern redneck from Mississippi and you are in the far east. Perhaps the verbiage is different yet the meaning is the same. I hold to the doctrine of the bible, yet seem to lean towards Calvinism as far as the way Spurgeon presented it. To me, he was an old-time Baptist, then again the Apostle Paul was too! If I was a staunch Calvinist, we would not be discussing the things I inquired about. I would have just written you off because it looked like we disagreed. But from what I have read in many of your previous posts, we have too much in common to part ways. You are my brother and I have been edified much by your input. Thanks for the gracious fellowship you offer.

sing
Charles Page, I don't know. One has called me a heretic and then deleted me.

A certain Nathaniel Diaz wrote, "Sing, you are a heretic for your denial of the doctrine of Sola Fide, and I will have nothing to do with the likes of you."

And because truth is intimately intertwined, Sola Fide and Gospel Regeneration are twin brothers.

The PROUD and HAUGHTY and OBTUSE Calvinists rightly insist that regeneration precedes faith... but they cannot see that justification before God precedes BOTH regeneration and faith... thus ending with these ridiculous and STUPID (i.e lacking common sense!) contradictions.

Can you imagine a regenerated man that is not yet justified by God, i.e. that is still under the condemnation of death, still without the righteousness of Christ applied to him...

If only those BLIND Calvinists learn the truth that there are DISTINCT aspects of justification, they will admit how very foolish is the idea of 'sola fide'!

Faith is a fruit and effect of justification... it is the justified that shall live by faith!!!

The JUST shall live by faith...

Ro 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Ga 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

'Sola Fide' insists the opposite... i.e. by faith the condemned (i.e. the unjustified) is justified by God!

sing
Dellis Layne Worsham Sr., Press a Calvinist hard enough, and you will find the arminian blood flowing in him... for they are both gospel regenerationists to the core... even though the Calvinists will give lip service to regeneration precedes faith they will insist that regeneration takes place when there is preaching, just like the Arminians.

The Calvinists condemned me as a heretic for rejecting their 'gospel regeneration' and 'sola fide' fables!

Dellis
It's hard to tell by your post whether you are mocking me or not, but I'll go with the contrary. Lip service is a curse word to me as, even though it took a while before coming to the understanding of regeneration preceding faith, it is not only clear to me now and found impossible to disprove in the work of salvation by the believer. I get the idea that you are alluding to a way in which people are actually saved without ever hearing the gospel message. It has been a subject of many a debate. Regeneration and the gift of faith can come at separate times as Faith cometh by hearing but one must believe what he is hearing before it can have any converting power at all. A person must be a spiritual being, which has nothing to do with hearing before he can receive the engrafted word.

Dellis
Another thing that puzzles me is the way you put Calvinists and Arminians in the same group. As one believes salvation is given once and for all and the other says that works are involved in their salvation. The salvation of anyone is evident to God sometimes long before it is evident to the believer himself. Yet it would appear, by reading about the life of David, you would think David knew he was saved all his life, and in reality, he was. Arminians claim to be regenerated after they repent while Calvinists claim the regeneration must happen before one can or will repent.

sing
Brother Dellis, mocking you??????? Why would I do that???????
What I wrote is about the Calvinists that I have interacted with; no reference to you.

Calvinists and Arminians may differ in many ways... but they are the same when it comes to gospel regeneration and justification by faith alone.

God saves, and the gospel saves; they save differently!

 

November 27, 2021

The gospel DOES NOT save.

The gospel is the good news that God HAS SAVED, i.e. He has accomplished eternal salvation for His people by Jesus Christ, and has applied it by His Spirit to individuals elect.

The gospel INFORMS those that ARE SAVED the good news that God HAS SAVED them; it is perceived by them as the message declaring the power of God in saving them. 

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, but unto us ARE SAVED it is the power of God." It is perceived by those that ARE SAVED as the good news declaring God's power in saving them.

The gospel DOES save.

The truth of what God has done to save His people will save them from falsehood and lies, superstitions and imaginations; it teaches and instructs them unto godliness and righteousness.

Titus 2
11 ¶For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

The degree to which you have understood the distinction between how the gospel DOES NOT save and how it DOES save is the degree you have understood salvation by grace.

A biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology:

God saves, and the gospel saves; they save differently!

"Except ye repent, ye shall all LIKEWISE perish." Luke 13:3

Luke 13:3 "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent,
ye shall all likewise perish."
What had happened to the Galileans? 
Likewise will happen to them except they repent!

November 25, 2010 

Alloyd inquired:
Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Sing sir, could you expound this scripture for me? It appears to me to have eternal consequences and to be speaking perhaps of (I would have to say make believers or false believers) that bear no fruit. That is if you read the parable that follows directly to illustrate our Lord's meaning. Where would that put the supposed unbelieveing elect?

Sing F Lau
LIKEWISE... LIKEWISE... LIKEWISE... what kind of perishing is spoken of?

Alloyd
So if we don't repent we will die physically? yes but we will all die likewise, read on to the parable of the tree that does not bear fruit it will be thrown in the fire surely that speaks of something other than physical death.

Sing F Lau
Alloyd, look at the text carefully, PLEASE...
Here is the passage:
13:1 ¶ There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galileans, because they suffered such things?
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

What happened... Galileans had died a cruel and humiliating death under Roman's oppression. LIKEWISE happened in 70AD.

Concerning the parable of the tree that does not bear fruit... do you think Christ is expecting the dead tree to bear fruit, or do you think Christ expect living trees to bear fruit?

Do you think Christ expects those who have eternal life to bear spiritual fruit, or those who are in a state of sin and death to bear fruit?

If the latter, what kind of punishment will they get for their failure to be fruit? Eternal punishment, or temporal punishment.

Remember the parables were all addressed to Cod's children among the Jews.

Remember what Peter said to them on the day of Pentecost?
"40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation."

That generation of Jews was destined for destruction in 70AD. Apostle Peter reminded them again in his epistles...

ANY salvation that requires man's action CAN NOT possibly be ETERNAL salvation... because the bestowal of eternal salvation by God's free grace is the ABSOLUTE INDISPENSABLE PRE-REQUISITE for man to act spiritually... and in acting, he secures TEMPORAL salvation, i.e. his well-being here in this present life.

If you understand the last statement, you are on a sound first base.

Alloyd
I understand the last statement. But let's back up a bit; nobody said the tree is dead! You don't fertilise dead trees! now if you say then it is speaking of the elect it can't be because he says after fertilising it if it doesn't bear fruit then it's off to the fire.

Sing F Lau
Ok, let's forget about the tree. The parable is about PEOPLE.
What kind of people?
Do you fertilize those dead in trespasses and sin? if you do, how do you do that?

Isn't it true that only the living can be fertilized... and only the living can be expected to produce fruit?

Fruitlessness is in the context of the living. Spiritual fruit can only be expected from spiritually alive people. It is the spiritually alive people that have the real problem of being unfruitful.

Fruitlessness is NEVER a problem associated with those dead in trespasses and sins.

All the above are basic and common sense.

Sing F Lau
Yes, they will perish in a like manner... LIKEWISE... LIKEWISE... LIKEWISE... in bloody and humiliating death in the hands of the Romans! Get the point!

Alloyd
So everybody who doesn't repent will die a bloody physical death. Hmmmn! really? Oh except the believing and unbelieving elect, of course, cos they can do as they please.

Sing F Lau
Please remember the context... context... context of those words spoken to some particular Jews in a particular situation inquiring about some particular issue.

If you want to draw a lesson, then it would be this: unbelief will bring its ill consequences.

Alloyd
but to who? surely not the elect.

Sing F Lau
What to who? Please explain.

Alloyd
@ If you want to draw a lesson, then it would be this: unbelief will bring its ill consequences.
Not the elect though.

Sing F Lau
Oh yes, for the elect!
The elect is not exempted from ill consequences in this life. Scourging and chastisement are the lots of God's disobedient children! Unbelieving children of God among the Jews will likewise perish in the hand of the Romans in 70AD. It has nothing to do with eternal salvation. 

6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Alloyd
ok thanks.

There are those that oppose themselves!

Opposing himself and oblivious to it!
"No, but we are opposing our pastor-teacher," said they.

November 24, 2012
https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/3990667760581

2Tim 2
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

"...If God peradventure will give them repentance..."

(peradventure: an adverb, archaic: PERHAPS, POSSIBLY)

To whom does the pronoun 'them' refer:
- careless and foolish children of God, or
- those that are still dead in trespasses and sin?

1. Who are those who oppose themselves?

2. In what ways do they oppose themselves?

3. Who are they that are taken captive by the devil at his will?

4. Who are they that may RECOVER themselves out of the snare of the devil?

5. How are they to recover themselves from the snare of the devil?

6. Are those still dead in trespasses and sins capable of being instructed concerning spiritual things?

7. What do you think of the idea of God giving repentance to them that are still dead in trespasses and sins?  What good will it do?

Please give some answers and the reasons for them. Thanks.

BE CAREFUL - God's own children may be foolishly OPPOSING THEMSELVES!

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7 Comments

Charles Page
peradventure! possibly or perhaps. That is a precarious position for the Christians to be in! It is up to God to give repentance and He may just decide not to! He is the living God!

The elect unregenerate are not in such a precarious position and there is no preadventure in their new birth.

The Arminians think there is preadventure for the unregenerate.

Sing F Lau
It is foolish and PRESUMPTUOUS to think, "I can sin safely... I can always repent of it when needed!" The reality is, "if God peradventure will give them repentance..." is a stern warning against such folly. The wise Lord may just leave a presumptuous child to wallow and perish in his sin!

Charles Page
The wise Lord may just leave a presumptuous child to wallow and perish in his sin!

Sing, I think this is primarily directed toward religious leaders however religious leaders will use this thought to scare the pew-seaters. This seems to be the movement of Christ in the gospels. He had a compassionate understanding with the pew-seaters and chastised the leaders.

Sing F Lau
"And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves;"
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There is tenderness and patience in dealing with those who oppose themselves... so it is unlikely that Timothy is dealing with the religious leaders.

Your observation that Christ is hard on religious leaders is right!

The half-baked works of the Reformers - John Gill

November 24, 2019

Gill's commentary on Revelation 3:2

"Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God."

"for I have not found thy works perfect before God" :
meaning that the reformers, and reformed churches, stuck where they first began; and did not carry their works neither with respect to doctrine, and especially with respect to discipline and worship, to a greater perfection, as they ought to have done: and however perfect they might appear before men, they were not so in the sight of the omniscient God, nor found so by Christ, before whom all things are naked and open:...

"This church, though she has departed from the corrupt church of Rome, and from her evil doctrines and practices; yet did not go on to that perfection which might have been expected and desired, and which would have rendered her praiseworthy, whereas she is now discommended. It is an observation of a Jewish writer {h}, that "if one departs from an evil way, and does not do that which is good, he does not whvem Mylvh, "make his work perfect," and he is not pronounced blessed."
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What an astute and incisive judgment.

John Gill was no Protestant who came out of the Harlot church; he was a Baptist.

I wrote this some years ago:
"Luther and his fellow Protestant reformers amputated one of those two gangrenous limbs embraced by the Harlot Church, and declares that justification before God is by faith alone, and without works. The Protestant still ends up with one GANGRENOUS limb - justification by faith ONLY! One cancerous limb is no less cancerous than two CANCEROUS limbs! BOTH, the Harlot Church, and all her "sola fidei" daughters are gravely and grievously mistaken, one no less than the other."

Full article here:
https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2014/06/faith-and-works-or-faith-alone-or.html