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| Can a dead man be scared by hell fire and brimstone preaching? Can a dead man be scared to flee from a burning building? |
The video is found here. Listen to it, a hell-fire and brimstone preaching to scare sinners into heaven. (sing)
A brother Esee posted this video, "I will be honest, will you?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gub5uaiT3fo
Esee
Please take five minutes to watch this video. It has eternal weight and eternal value.
Aguirre
Good! Thanks for sharing
Sing F Lau
Is the preacher addressing dead hell bound sinners to do something in order to be saved from eternal hell? He sure does appear to do so. If he is, he will most certainly come across to his hearers as a raving MADMAN from hell
A raving MADMAN thinks his hell fire-and-brimstone preaching will be blessed by God to awaken sinners dead in their trespasses and sins!
I have met Al Martin on several occasions where he spoke at Ministers Conference organized by the Banner of Truth - both in England and Australia. I still have many of his conference tapes - from the 1980-90s.
The Apostles were sent out to preach the gospel to those whom God has made alive, calling them to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and Saviour.
"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."
Lloyd
what about those being saved, was CH Spurgeon a mad man?
Sing F Lau
What about those being saved? Who are they? What are they being saved from? And saved by who? Please tell us.
I understand from the Scriptures that ONLY those that ARE SAVED by God's free grace are capable of being saved by the gospel ministry.
That being the case, the gospel ministry is for the conversion of God's children, those who by God's grace are already perfectly fitted for eternal glory, and are on the way to heaven. Preaching hell-fire to such simply foolish
Salvation by God's free grace and salvation that comes through the gospel ministry are quite distinct.
Was CH Spurgeon a mad man? I don't know. What about him? He had great respect for his mentor John Gill and his work. New school calvinists hate and despise Gill. I would rather call them mad men instead of Spurgeon!
Lloyd
Most of my calvinist friends have great respect for gill, we are told to preach the gospel to all the world, you and I don't know who the ones fitted for eternity are so we present Jesus Christ to all men freely and universally the rest is up to God preach the gospel in season and out to all men.
Sing F Lau
Most of the new school calvinists I know slander Gill as a hyper-calvinist.
In the nature of the case, the public proclamation of the gospel is addressed to all the hearers, even though the preachers know from the Scriptures that the gospel... message is relevant and intended for the children of God - those elect that are already regenerated.
Gospel preaching is a proclamation of what God has done, persuading the hearers to believe, and ONLY God's children among the hearers are able to believe.
"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."
The gospel ministry is for those that ARE SAVED... they alone will receive the gospel as the message of God's power of saving them. All others will consider it foolishness.
Lloyd
Sing F Lau
That is the whole problem... the gospel ministry is seen as an ministry that OFFERS salvation to all the hearers!
(Such idea is perfectly consistent and compatible with universal atonement, certainly not with election and particular redemption...)
Is that what the preachers are sent out to do? To offer salvation to the hearers dead in sins and trespasses, OR to call those that ARE SAVED (already effectually called to grace and salvation by God's free grace) to believe the Lord Jesus Christ, their Saviour... THAT IS to believe what is already true!
The gospel ministry is to announce the good news of the great work of salvation that He has accomplished for His people through Jesus Christ, and applied to them personally by the Holy Spirit.
The salvation is not offered, nor accepted. It is purposed, secured, and APPLIED sovereignly to the designated recipients! The salvation is APPLIED personally to each elect by God's free grace... and the gospel is the means to bring such to faith in Jesus Christ.
The gospel ministry is the means appointed to seek out God's children and gather them into churches.
Lloyd
oh well with that I agree but you still got to go out.
Hart
faith in Christ Jesus is modern thinking - whereas the faith of Christ Jesus is factual for regeneration. Power of Christ, not power of man!!! Al Martin sells fire insurance.
esee
Richard, Please elaborate on what you mean by the faith 'of' Jesus Christ opposed to faith 'in' Jesus Christ. That terminology is very ambiguous. Thanks.
Lloyd
I always thought it was faith in and through Jesus Christ,
Hart
The phrase, 'faith of Jesus Christ' is found in Romans 3:22, Gal 2:16 ; Gal 3:22 .. unless you're reading NKJV or any other new English translation or paraphrase.
The phrase, 'faith of Christ' is found in Gal 2:16, Phil 3:9 .. unless you're... reading NKJV or any other new English translation or paraphrase.
The faith of Jesus Christ was not only sufficient but also efficient in saving eternally all his people from all their sins.
The English preacher Andrew Fuller is quoted as saying that Jesus Christ was sufficicent for all, efficient for some. Fuller's debating influences during the Black Rock Debates eventually led to the split of 1832, separating the regular old Baptists of America into the many new-school Baptists which are daily being founded.
That World Revised publication is the forerunner of all new English translations and paraphrases.
Bad hamburger! 'Faith-based' religionists have folk exercising faith to get new birth. Say it ain't so, Joe!
Intrinsic faith is a free gift.
Exercise of the gift follows regeneration, and is not the cause of it.
esee
It's faith in the finished work of Christ. 1 Cor 15:1-4 gives us a nutshell version of the Gospel:
"Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, ...if you hold fast to the word I preached to you— unless you believed in vain.
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures..." - 1 Cor 15:1-4
The just shall live by faith...
How is it that our faith justifies us before God?
God transfers the righteousness of Christ Jesus to us, it's called imputation.
"For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith..." - Phil 3:8-9
And then God exhorts us to:
"...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. " Phil 2:12-13
Faith without works is dead...
That means that a true faith is accompanied by deeds that demonstrate to others that the faith is genuine.
Those works flow out of regeneration, they are not required for regeneration.
Do you agree Richard?
Hart
Your faith or Christ's faith, David? Where lies the power?
God alone is Creator of life. We are no-creators nor regenerators.
You have a works belief for salvation, or so it seems.
Lloyd
Well It"s not news to me that faith is a gift.But without faith it is impossible to please God. iknow He gives not only the grace but the faith also to believe in Him.
Hart
Dennis, I cannot agree that you have understanding.
esee
Richard, Feel free to explain why what I said is not Biblical.
Regards,
Hart
Gentlemen, I probably don't belong in this discussion.
I must say, I'm not 'Calvinist', 'Protestant', nor' Catholic'.
esee
Richard, It would be un-Christlike to think I am in error, hear my request to know why, and then refuse to tell me.
I am open to Scriptural discussion and you claim that I am without understanding...
Hart
Dennis, I'm nothing more than a retired cop.
I learned to detect the counterfeit.
I don't have the bibilcal gift, pastor and teacher.
Articles of faith, plus sermons are available at www.ftwaynepbc.org
Hart
Dennis, your beliefs are so different from my traditions.
I've got the understanding of what you believe.
I did much church hopping over 7 years, praying for the Lord to guide my search. I thought I was only sick of karaoke in the church, but... the Lord had some good news. I found a resting place in Zion.
Yesterday, Pastor Michael Green preached a lively hope whereas 'slim chance' was preached elsewhere in the 'City of Churches'.
Hart
OOps, meant to say, not so different, probably identical.
Hart
Good night, All !
esee
Good night Richard.
For the future, the word used in Romans 3:22 is 'dikaiosynē' and no translation that I have renders it faith, not even the KJV.
It means righteousness... not faith.
We are counted righteous like our father Abraham on the basis of our faith, just like he was.
We are saved by grace, through faith...
We can talk again if you want.
Hart
My righteousness is found in Jesus alone.
My own righteousness is as filthy rags, stinking rank.
esee
Amen, I just looked at the website for your church, if I am not mistaken, I am on the same page as your pastor. Night!
Sing F Lau
@Alan Lloyd "oh well with that I agree but you still got to go out."
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Therein lies the great misunderstanding: people who DON'T believe in free offer DO NO GO OUT.
GOING OUT is not the issue. It is when you have gone out, what do you see yourself as doing... do you offer salvation to every one, or do your preach the gospel of what God HAS DONE, and called the recipients of it to believe... and it is only those who ALREADY POSSESS eteral life will believe!
And please remember, not knowing who the intended recipients are DOES NOT matter. The gospel is FOR THEM ALONE. The gospel preaching will distinguish them from the rest!
esee
Richard...Where did I say that faith comes before regeneration?
A man cannot genuinely profess Jesus Christ as Lord without the Holy Spirit dwelling within him first. I hope that answers your question.
Sing F Lau
Dennis, you inquired of Richard, "Please elaborate on what you mean by the faith 'of' Jesus Christ opposed to faith 'in' Jesus Christ. That terminology is very ambiguous."
You have asked a very important question... and may the Lord lead you... to the truth.
Take a look here: just a primer on this particular subject.
http://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2008/01/saved-by-grace-through-faith-whose.html
Sing F Lau
Dennis @ "How is it that our faith justifies us before God?
God transfers the righteousness of Christ Jesus to us, it's called imputation.
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You have asked a very important and basic question.
But you gave a VERY WRONG answer. Now, please take it very kindly, and calmly. I was there... The very wrong answer could be made into perfectly correct answer, if a VERY basic confusion is appreciated and understood.
I pray that the Lord will open your eyes and grant you understanding.
Please read this article here. I do welcome any question.
http://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2009/09/therefore-as-arminians-reject-doctrine.html
I quote part of it here:
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“God did from all eternity decree to justify all the elect, and Christ did in the fullness of time die for their sins, and rise again for their justification; nevertheless, they are not justified personally, until the Holy Spirit doth in time due actually apply Christ unto them."
We have three aspects of the jewel of justification stated here:
1. The justification decreed by God for all the elect from all eternity.
2. The justification accomplished/secured by Christ for all elect in time - i.e. justification accomplished by Christ's blood.
3. The justification applied to each elect personally - i.e. justification applied by God's grace.
The same old baptist document says this:
"Faith thus receiving and resting on Christ and His righteousness, is the alone instrument of justification; yet it is not alone in the person justified, but ever accompanied with all other saving graces, and is no dead faith, but worketh by love."
This statement speaks of the fourth aspect of the wholesome justification of life, i.e.
4. The justification experienced, and evidenced by the believer's faith - i.e justification by believer's faith.
The justification spoken of here is the justification by the faith of the believer. It is entirely different from the justification by the grace of God. It says that faith is NOT ALONE in the person justified. This clearly implies that faith is accompanied by other graces in the person justified (simple past tense pointing to simple past action of the justification applied by grace). Faith justifies (simple present tense) the believer. Faith is (simple present tense) the alone instrument to experience the justified state (justification applied, once for all) by God's grace. By faith in Jesus Christ, a believer experience the blessedness of his justified state. By faith, as well as works of righteousness, he also evidences, gives proof to, his justified state.
To fail to distinguish justification applied by grace, and justification experienced, and evidenced by faith has one serious difficulty. It is teaching that a sinner under condemnation (unjustified state, justification not applied) is capable of faith in order to have justification applied to him. Nearly all the churches in the world believe this idea - the Arminians as well as the Calvinists!
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Sing F Lau
Dennis@ A man cannot genuinely profess Jesus Christ as Lord without the Holy Spirit dwelling within him first.
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Very sound statement.
Now I pose a related matter:
Can a condemned man (i.e. unjustified by God's free grace yet) have (or is it 'has', sorry for my poor grammar!) the Holy Spirit dwelling within?
Can a condemned man has life (i.e. regenerated) before the righteousness of Christ is APPLIED to him personally (i.e. before the justification of life by God's free grace)?
May the Lord bless you richly as you ponder over these things.
Patron
I used to be persuaded to http://illbehonest.com/ but they echo works salvation and they can''t makeup their minds between salvation "only" by Christ on the Cross 2000 years ago or by "only" puritan repentance of the sinner asking for mercy.
Is like a new version of Roman-Catholicism and undercover Arminians. They are selling us a counterfeits types of : Gospel, Calvin, Spurgeon, ... and then if you buy it they lift your self-esteem making you believe that now you belong to the elite and clever "camp".
Their scam work great for praises since their preaching is the ultimate tool for salvation of souls....... pray and watch them close.
Sing F Lau
How very strange... these new calvinistic preachers... in their mind, they are addressing their hearers as those still dead in trespasses and sins... trying very hard, by their preaching, to get them born again through their preaching...
The apostles, on the other hand, are consciously aware that they were sent out to preach the gospel in order to seek and find God's children (those elect ALREADY effectually called unto grace and salvation by God's free grace) among the multitudes of sinners.
But these neo-calvinistic preachers are consciously and plainly reasoning and arguing and persuading hearers they clearly considered still dead in their trespasses and sins! How very strange?
They try to make converts from among the dead! How very strange and bizarre!
esee
I'll get back to you all when the Lord permits time, maybe lunch time? :)
However, I should have noted that I do not stand behind all of the material/teachers that illbehonest promotes.
Perhaps I should have linked to this video in a different way.
In love,
Hart
7 Days to Decide
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October 25 at 1:55am
Sing F Lau
Watch this video! A gospel regenerationist in raving actions!
Is the preacher addressing dead hell bound sinners to do something in order to be saved from eternal hell? He sure does appear to do so. If he is, he will most certainly come across to them as a raving MADMAN ...from hell
A raving MADMAN thinks his fire-and-brimstone preaching will be blessed by God to awaken sinners dead in their trespasses and sins!
I have met the preacher on many occasions - both in England and Australia. I still have many of his conferences tapes - from the 1980-90s.
The Apostles were sent out to preach the gospel to those whom God has made alive, calling them to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and Saviour.
"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."
Sing F Lau
2Co 5:20 "Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God."
Just what is the role and function of an ambassador? Does a gospel regenerationist preacher fit... the office and work of an ambassador of Christ?
Does an ambassador beseech the dead, or does he beseech those whom God has made alive to be reconciled to God?
Sing F Lau
With such hell-fire preaching even the devils would be herded into heaven!
The old school baptists said this:
"These... men thus predestined and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and ...definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished."
and this:
"Those whom God hath predestined unto life, He is pleased in His appointed and accepted time, effectually to call, by His Word [eternal life-giving Logos] and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ...
"This effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone, not from anything at all foreseen in man, nor from any power or agency in the creature,(7) being wholly passive therein, being dead in sins and trespasses, until being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit;(8) he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it, and that by no less power than that which raised up Christ from the dead."
Sing F Lau
Why can't the gospel regenerationist preachers see the simple point.
To those that are perishing (still dead in their trespasses and sins) the 'gospel' they preach would be utter foolishness to such.
To them that ARE SAVED, already effectually called to grace and salvation, isn't all those hellfire preaching VERY REDUNDANT to these who have been put on the way to heaven by God's free grace?
Either way, they are really foolish! And the new school calvinists boast themselves as sound in logic and reasoning! How deluded and deceived!
