Christ told Peter and the rest:"Feed my lambs... Feed my sheep... Feed my sheep."
Yes, "Feed... Feed... Feed!" Hear that?
Isn't that a straight forward instruction...
and repeated to preempt the foolish notion
of presumptuous and giddy preachers who imagine
that they are called to assist God in birthing lambs and sheep!
How obtuse and stubborn and stiff-necked
can preachers get!
Initially posted here:
https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/146302448746782
October 5 at 1:17am
"Although the gospel be the only outward means of revealing Christ and saving grace, and is, as such, abundantly sufficient thereunto; yet that men who are dead in trespasses may be born again, quickened or regenerated, there is moreover necessary an effectual insuperable work of the Holy Spirit upon the whole soul, for the producing in them a new spiritual life;(8) without which no other means will effect their conversion unto God.(9)
8. Ps 110:3; 1Co 2:14; Eph 1:19-20. 9. Jn 6:44; 2Co. 4:4,6.
Sing F Lau
The old school baptists, representing over 100 baptized congregations in England and Wales issued that statement above as part of the 1689 LBCF - chapter 20, para 4.
The new school reformed baptists, who came into being in the 1960s read what the old school particular baptists confessed and concluded that they believed and taught 'gospel regeneration' - i.e. the preaching of the gospel is the necessary instrument for the Holy Spirit to regenerate the elect. These new school RBs declare, "no preaching, no regeneration."
New school reformed baptists get their fable of gospel regeneration from thin air! They bear false witness against the old school particular baptists, claiming to be their descendants but rejecting their faithful teaching. They are not the true descendants of old school particular baptists who framed the 1689 LBCF... therefore they are illegitimate, impostors.
Lloyd
yep you must be born again ( from above and a new)
Sing F Lau
The 1689 LBCF DOES NOT advocate 'gospel regeneration.'
Just because the RBs hijacked it to teach gospel regeneration, doesn't make it teach gospel regeneration.
Simple observation makes it abundantly clear. Those early particular baptist churches, that later became known as the Primitive Baptists, that adhered to the 1689 CoF were consistently preaching and teaching Spirit Regeneration for hundreds of years.
1689 DOES NOT permit gospel regeneration. There are abundant statements that declare the contrary. I would like the RBs to show me the proof of their notion. I am rather convinced it is the RBs, who were formerly Arminians, who read the 1689 CoF with the Arminian-coloured glasses.
Sing F Lau
The new school reformed baptists are free to believe their Arminian notion of 'gospel regeneration - " i.e. the preaching of the gospel is the necessary instrument for the Holy Spirit to regenerate the elect" - but they must not be so deceitful and dishonest and shameful to claim that the old school baptists who framed the 1689 LBCF believed the same. It is a sin to bear false witness of the old school baptists.
There are more than enough clear statements in that ancient document to expose the lie and error of 'gospel regeneration'!
Lloyd
So what exactly are you saying, salvation is of the Lord and the means he uses are entirely up to him? oh ok I get it now. you must be born again (a new and from above) is what it's saying?
Sing F Lau
Lloyd @ So what exactly are you saying, salvation is of the Lord and the means he uses is entirely up to him?
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Two issues in your question:
1. Eternal salvation (eternal in nature) by of the Lord alone, and He uses NO MEANS whatsoever. G...od purposed it, Christ accomplished it, and the Holy Spirit applied it, and the person to whom it is applied is fit for eternal glory.
2. God appointed and ordained the gospel ministry as the MEANS to save those whom He has bestowed eternal salvation.
God's children, i.e. those to whom He has bestowed eternal salvation by His free grace alone, must work out their own salvation (which is temporal in nature, i.e. pertaining to this present life only) with fear and trembling, in response to the gospel ministry.
Some of God's children have the benefit of the salvation from the gospel ministry. Others do not. Some cannot. and others incapable.
If I don't make sense, please ask.
Richardson
Turning on the light does not make things not seen in the dark to BECOME, but only makes them easier to see and more clear. The Gospel shines a light on what is already there and makes navigation easier. It is not a creative force... it is light to shine and show Who the Creator is and what he has done.
Sing F Lau
When the gospel light shine, a shadow call faith is evidence of the SOLID work of redemption within the man. The shadow called faith will never be produced without the prior work of redemption by God's free grace.
Lloyd
Ok, I understand it now. Thanks
Sing F Lau
The new school Calvinists will appeal to this part of the 1689 LBCF for their fable...
"Those whom God hath predestined unto life, He is pleased in His appointed and accepted time, effectually to call,(1) by His Word and Spirit, out of that ...state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ..."
From the words "by His Word" they conclude that their preaching is referred to and therefore is necessary for regeneration. But that idea is a big mistake and illogical and full of contradictions.
'God... by His Word and Spirit' refers to the THREE PERSONS of the Trinity in the work of calling of those predestined unto eternal life out of their state of sin and death in which they are in by nature, to grace and salvation by the redemption of Jesus Christ.
'Those whom God has predestined' refer to the COMPLETE number of God's elect.... and if the new school Calvinists insist that 'His Word' refers to their gospel ministry, this fable necessarily implies that ALL THE ELECT of God will have the gospel preached to them for their effectual calling!
This fable is repudiated by the truth stated in the third paragraph of the same chapter, which states that many of those predestined to eternal life do not have the benefit of the gospel ministry.
Their minds are so made up that they can't even notice such an obvious contradiction!
Sing F Lau
Also, the new school calvinsist are very mistaken because they equate 'effectual calling' as regeneration through the instrument of their gospel preaching.
But 1689.10 is not on regeneration... it is on effectual call out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ. To be called out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ REQUIRES Justification, Regeneration, Adoption and the bestowal of the Spirit of adoption to dwell with an elect.
Effectual call and regeneration are CLEARLY distinguished in these words in chapter 13: "They who are united to Christ, effectually called, and regenerated, having a new heart and a new spirit created in them through the virtue of Christ's death and resurrection, are also farther sanctified..."
In the effectual call, an elect is DEFINITIVELY sanctified, i.e. completely and perfectly called out of the state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation. 'Farther sanctified' requires the means of the gospel ministry.
Sing F Lau
Note the plain and concise order stated in the 1689 LBCF.
Watch carefully the theologians cum logicians at work in expressing their precise beliefs:
1689.10.1 - effectual call
"Those whom God hath predestined unto life, He is pleased in His ap...pointed and accepted time, effectually to call,(1) by His Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ...."
1689.11.1 - justification
"Those whom God effectually calleth, He ALSO freely justifieth..."
1689.12.1 - Adoption
"All those that are justified, God vouchsafed, in and for the sake of His only Son Jesus Christ, to make partakers of the grace of adoption,..."
In speaking of adoption, regeneration is presupposed. Regeneration must precede actual adoption.
1689.13.1 - Farther sanctification
"They who are united to Christ, effectually called, and regenerated, having a new heart and a new spirit created in them through the virtue of Christ's death and resurrection, are also farther sanctified..."
Here, regeneration that was assumed is stated.
So the order is very straight forward:
In the effectual call (or definitive sanctification) there is:
- justification, the righteousness of life is APPLIED
- regeneration, warranted by the righteousness of life applied
- adoption logically follows the birth
- bestowal of the Spirit of adoption to dwell in a child of God. The indwelling Spirit works all the saving graces like faith, etc...
This enables a child of God to respond to the gospel call when it does come to him. This is the 'Farther sanctification' spoken of in chapter 13. In believing, his faith EVIDENCES, CERTIFIES, JUSTIFIES, DECLARES that he is indeed a person effectually called of God.
Justification by God at effectual calling and justification by man's faith at gospel calling are two DISTINCT and SEPARATE aspects of justification. The new school baptists are blind to this simple truth.
But the new school calvinists because of their Arminian prejudices, do not understand all these things summarized by the old school baptists! They are not the children of the old school baptists... but illegitimate!
Lloyd
so are you saying in light of that there is no need to evangelize and that the preaching of the word is for the instruction of the church only? :) or are you saying something else?
Sing F Lau
There is a great need for preaching... for the specific purpose God has ordained it... not for the purpose of man's imagination.
The preaching of the word is for the gathering of God's children into NT churches... that they may be instructed concerning the truth of their salvation by God's free grace, that they may know how to live sober, godly, and righteously as God's children.
Alan, do this exercise: Read Romans 1:1-17 real carefully.
Apostle wrote to a people he called 'saints' and 'beloved of God'. They are ALREADY 'saints' and 'beloved of God' - yet they have NOT heard the gospel, and stand in urgent need to hear the gospel of their salvation by God's free grace (which is why Apostle Paul addressed them as "saints' and 'beloved of God'.
They are 'saints' because, by God's free grace, they have been called out of their state of sin and death, in which they are y nature, to that of grace and salvation.
Food and clothing are not needed for the conception of a new life in the womb. Somehow, some people conclude from this statement that food and clothing are not needed by the newborn babe!
Lloyd
You're losing me a bit now I'm pretty simple you will have to explain it in more simple terms, please. Is there any need to evangelize even the elect because until they are revealed in Christ I don't know who they are should I be going out and compelling them to come in, to repent, and believe the gospel and the good news?
Sing F Lau
There is a great need to preach the gospel.
Preaching is the divinely appointed means to reveal and identify the children of God among the people in the whole wide world.
Faith comes by hearing. God's children (the elect whom God has regenerteda) among the hearers in the crowd, when they hear the gospel, they will believe the good news of salvation by Jesus Christ. They HAVE BEEN SAVED by the finished work of Jesus Christ, and that salvation has been applied to them personally by the Spirit of God when they were effectually called out of their state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation. That is why they are able to believe the gospel.
Of course, the gospel preachers have absolutely no idea who are God's children in the new crowd he is preaching the gospel to. But the preaching of the gospel will identify them... God's children in their midst of the crowd will manifest themselves by their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Such are to be gathered and baptized and established into a NT church.
No preacher knows who are the elect among his hearers... but he is absolutely sure and certain from Scriptures that ONLY God's children among the hearers will ever hear and respond to the preaching of the gospel.
The preaching of the gospel is NOT offering salvation. It is the height of foolishness to offer salvation to those still dead in sin and trespasses. In fact it is a cruel mockery and insult. It is no less foolish to offer salvation to God's children... the sincere offer comes TOO LATE, for God has SAVED them.
Ponder on these things... go and preach the gospel wherever the Holy Spirit leads you... the children of God out there will be brought to light through their faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Feel free to inquire further.
Sing F Lau
God's children are ALREADY out there.
Therefore your preaching DOES NOT in any way help God in producing His children, which is what the damnable lie of 'gospel regeneration' is all about!
The gospel ministry is intended for the gathering in of God's children into NT churches... it was never intended as an instrument in producing God's children (regeneration).
Lloyd ok they are already elect by means of God's election in eternity past so there already saved before they know, it's just that they have to become conformed to His image, but how do they come to the knowledge that they are elect? Because they don't know. or am I misunderstanding you?
Sing F Lau
Alan, the election took place in eternity, before time.
Election does not make a person a child of God.
Regeneration, the new birth (in distinction from the first birth by our earthly parents) makes an elect a child of God.
An elect is conceived... and born in sin, just as any other of the fallen human race, and is as much a child of wrath EVEN as others, Eph 2:3.
Before God effectually calls an elect, he was in his NATIVE state of sin and death. At God's own appointed and approved time, He effectually calls an elect out of his state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation - this requires justification, regeneration, adoption, and the bestowal of the Spirit of adoption - all these by the free and sovereign activities of God alone, WITHOUT the gospel preaching as an instrument or means.
The gospel ministry is ordained and sent to such children of God, to bring them to the knowledge of the truth of their salvation by God's free grace, instructing them to walk worthy of their calling to eternal salvation by God's free grace in Christ Jesus.
The gospel was sent to Cornelius, who was already a child of God, regenerated long before Apostle Peter came. Those devout Jews that came to Jerusalem and were converted through Peter's preaching - they were ALREADY regenerated before they came to Jerusalem. They were God's children long before that day of Pentecost... which is why they trudged their way from long distances to Jerusalem to worship God!
See any light yet? Think outside the popular box!
Lloyd
yes now I get what you mean, but still they had to hear to understand their position in Christ yes? because as you say they were in a fallen state. But it does leave me questions about being born again consider what Peter say's in 1 Peter 1:22-23
Sing F Lau
Hearing the truth will enlighten them concerning the truth of their salvation which had already be bestowed by God's free and sovereign grace... hearing the truth is not in order to be saved by God.
After God saved them, they are NO LONGER in their fallen state, i.e. in their native state of sin and death. God has effectually called them out of that native state, to that of grace and salvation.
All gospel regenerationists appeal to that passage out of ignorance! They are guided by SOUND-BYTE, they are ignorant of the plain SENSE of the text.
I paste below what I have written to an inquirer who quoted that passage since it deals with the same matter.
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His question: you mentioned that we are begotten of the Spirit, meaning born of the Spirit. Does it mean that the only way we are regenerated or born again is through the Spirit? Can it also be through the Word of God as mentioned in 1 Pet1:23: "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. " Is it right to conclude that the Word of God is the means for both regeneration and conversion?
My reply:
For the first question, there are several fundamental things you must bear in mind.
1. Birth or begetting always requires a PERSON, a life-giving PERSON as the active agent.
A thing cannot beget in the sense of bringing about a new life.
2. The Scriptures attribute the new birth to all the three Persons of the God-head.
- To God the Father: "John 1: 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
- To God the Son: John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
- To God the Spirit: John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
3. In many places in the Scriptures, the second PERSON of the Godhead is often designated as the Word of God.
- John 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.
- Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. [ability to hear comes by the life-giving power of Jesus Christ].
- Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in HIS sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of HIM with whom we have to do. [It is beyond any shadow of doubt that in this passage the Word of God refers to a PERSON... Look at the personal pronouns that follow in verse 13.]
- 2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water. [compare this with John 1:2 'All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
- Re 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
It is obvious that the Word of God found in 1Pet 1:23 refers to a PERSON, and not the written word or the preached word of God. Because in the whole of the Scriptures begetting is never attributed to a thing, e.g. the preached word, or the written Scriptures.
Look at the passage carefully now:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 ¶ For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
The "word of God" under consideration is said to be incorruptible, which lives and abides forever. It is living and abiding forever. Please note also the subjects being compared. The comparison is between personal beings, between persons: all flesh and men on the one hand, and the person known as "the word of God."
Please note verse 25: three separate entities are spoken of: "the word", "the gospel" and the "preaching."
"And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" - THAT IS, by the gospel, the PERSON of the Word of God is preached unto you. 'The Word' refers to the central subject of the gospel, even Christ, the eternal Word made flesh.
The gospel is about the person designated as the "word of God" - the preaching of the gospel is about a PERSON, who is the "word of God" made flesh. " John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
In addition, the Scriptures itself testifies that the written Scriptures has been corrupted by many.
2Co 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ. The incorruptible word of God must refer to the second Person of the Trinity - he is pure and impeccable, incorruptible.
The written and preached word of God is the means appointed by God for the conversion of His children that were already born or begotten directly and immediately by the Triune God.
==========
God bless you to understand the truth stated.
Lloyd
Hi Sing, can you tell me the difference between old school particular Baptist and the old strict baptists? Also, do you believe that we should evangelize e.g. share the gospel with what is termed as the unsaved but for our purposes the elect that is still in a fallen state, and yet to come to their full saving knowledge that they are elect in Jesus Christ.
Sing F Lau
To my feeble historical understanding, old school particular baptists is a more general term embracing all those embracing the original teachings of the 1689 CoF. (Many new school baptists have corrupted them.) I have heard of the 'Strict and Particular Baptists' churches in England - a remnant of the old school particular baptists.
Alan, the gospel must be preached to all who are willing to hear... you and I don't know who are the elect among the hearers. There are elect and non-elect in any crowd. And among the elect, there are those that are regenerated and those that are not regenerated. And among the regenerated, some will believe, and some continue in their unbelief... not ready to be converted to the truth.
Some precise usage of terms will help. Let me illustrate:
- An elect must first be made a child of God by being effectually called out of his state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation...all these WITHOUT human instrumentality. These are described as devout, worshipers of God, who fear God and work righteousness. God's children need to be converted to Christ, for Christ has saved them.
- There are God's children who hear the gospel and are converted to the gospel of Jesus Christ. These are call believers, Christians. Of these some are good disciples and followers of Jesus Christ, others are poor and lousy followers.
- There are God's children who never have the capability, and or the opportunity to hear the gospel... but they are as fit for eternal glory as all others, by the free grace of God. Being without the gospel ministry they are deprived of many temporal blessings in this life.
- A good and faithful gospel ministry brings untold blessing to a child of God in this temporal life. That's the whole end of evangelism - NOT to bring sinners to heaven (God does that ALL BY HIMSELF!), but to ensure the WELL-BEING of God's children while here on earth.
Evangelism is very important. God's children, whom the Triune God has produced all by themselves through their divine effectual call, must be brought to a saving knowledge of the great work of redemption by God's grace... that they are discipled and instructed to observe all that Christ has commanded them - both doctrines and practice - to live orderly life to the glory of God.
Alan, this is a great EVANGELISM passage:
James 5: 19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
Evangelism is to bring the ignorant and the erring CHILDREN of God to the truth - doctrine, and practice. Evangelism serves no other end in the purpose of God - of course, men may abuse it as a money-spinning enterprise!
Lloyd
OK, Thanks, I am interested in what you are saying as I would call myself a reformed baptist of sorts, I however try not to say I'm of this man or that man. But I guess I would agree doctrinally with Spurgeon and guy's along that line.
Sing F Lau
Spurgeon is indeed a unique man.
He had great admiration for John Gill, and consider it his great privilege to have Gill as his mentor.
And since truth is stranger than fiction, MOST if not all Reformed Baptists who admire and adore Spurgeon SLANDER and CARICATURE Gill and consider him as dung!
All this reveals that Spurgeon has begun to lose grip of the truth that the old baptists preached and believed.
I was converted in a so-called reformed Baptist church while in the University of Sydney in the early '80s but with every passing year, I saw more and more doctrinal inconsistencies of the RBs - with respect to the Scriptures, and their doctrinal standard (1689 LBCF).
People can drift away from the truth without noticing it.
Truth as an instrument to evidence the justification ALREADY applied by God's free grace has been twisted and perverted as the MEANS to secure justification before God... and folks do not even know the difference. To many, 'what is the fuss' they retort!
Here is an example:
Supposing a man FREELY credited a $1b to your account while you were a condemned and declared bankrupt, and settled all your debt too. And he sent someone to bring the good news to you. And you believed the good news of the FREE gracious act, and by faith you went to the bank to draw on the money.
It would be SCANDALOUS and TREACHEROUS of you to claim that your believing the good news and going to the bank caused the gift to be freely credited to your account!
Yet so many insist that... they are justified by God through their faith!
And worst, they don't really care, if they can perceive the vast difference!
Lloyd
oh well one I really appreciate Gill's writings he was most insightful, and two I believe what Eph 2 says that even faith is the FREE gift of God. But tell me what of human responsibility?
Sing F Lau
The new school calvinists speak a whole lot about 'divine sovereignty and human responsibility' - but they are very confused on one basic point on this important matter.
It is divine sovereignty that purposed, accomplished, and applied the eternal salvation to each of God's elect at His own appointed and approved time. That is the specific realm and sphere of the divine sovereign in context.
That specific realm and sphere of human responsibility APPLY to God's children alone. God holds His children (i.e. elect that are already regenerated) responsible to make use of the divinely appointed means for their spiritual well being This makes great sense!
The new school calvinists insist that the specific realm and sphere of human responsibility relate to sinners dead in trespasses and sins, that God requires such to be responsible to use the means appointed in order to obtain eternal salvation! This is not only irrational nonsense but plain error.
Vast difference, sir! Blessed is he who can differentiate the two!
Sing F Lau
Alan @ 'and two I believe what Eph 2 says that even faith is the FREE gift of God"
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Alan, take a careful look at this article in Eph 2:8-9.
http://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2008/01/saved-by-grace-through-faith-whose.html
May our Lord grant you light! Amen
oh well one I really appreciate Gill's writings he was most insightful, and two I believe what Eph 2 says that even faith is the FREE gift of God. But tell me what of human responsibility?
Sing F Lau
The new school calvinists speak a whole lot about 'divine sovereignty and human responsibility' - but they are very confused on one basic point on this important matter.
It is divine sovereignty that purposed, accomplished, and applied the eternal salvation to each of God's elect at His own appointed and approved time. That is the specific realm and sphere of the divine sovereign in context.
That specific realm and sphere of human responsibility APPLY to God's children alone. God holds His children (i.e. elect that are already regenerated) responsible to make use of the divinely appointed means for their spiritual well being This makes great sense!
The new school calvinists insist that the specific realm and sphere of human responsibility relate to sinners dead in trespasses and sins, that God requires such to be responsible to use the means appointed in order to obtain eternal salvation! This is not only irrational nonsense but plain error.
Vast difference, sir! Blessed is he who can differentiate the two!
Sing F Lau
Alan @ 'and two I believe what Eph 2 says that even faith is the FREE gift of God"
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Alan, take a careful look at this article in Eph 2:8-9.
http://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2008/01/saved-by-grace-through-faith-whose.html
May our Lord grant you light! Amen
