One is... two are... This is basic. Modern translations obliterate the distinction.
Sing F Lau
Do not get rid of thee and thou! Demand thee and thou!
"Reject the NKJV and other versions that change them, for they are corrupting the accuracy of God’s word. Modern scholarship is inferior to older scholarship, as this simple lesson shows. While they cry loud and long about their adoration of and commitment to the “original
languages,” they sell copyrighted Bibles for a profit that defraud the reader of the pronoun precision of the “original languages.” Honest men will smell the problem! Read the KJV!"
http://www.letgodbetrue.com/bible/scripture/thee-and-thou.html
Morrow
I have a question. Are all other languages other than English condemned to have inferior translations...should the Chinese Bible be translated from the KJV?
Sing F Lau
Mighty Morrow, what prompts you to ask such question?
In translation, i think these basics must be met:
- trustworthy text from which to translate
- trustworthy translators, and
- trustworthy principles of translation.
- trustworthy process of translation.
Please compare apple with apple... English translations with English translations... that's a basic of comparison.
Why should a translation be made out of a translation? Shouldn't one do better than that?
It is all about mammon when it comes to modern translations! Big English markets, therefore BIG BUCKS!
When preachers DO NOT care about the distinction between second person singular pronoun and second person plural pronoun, he can't possibly be rightly dividing the word of truth!
When you can read Chinese proficiently, I will give you a copy of the Scriptures in Chinese for you to do some comparison - serious offer.
Ming
The Chinese Union Version - still the most authoritative Chinese translation of the Bible in use among Chinese Christians - was translated from the Revised Version (the Westcott-Hort version based on their Greek Text). The socio-political reasons behind that decision were very complicated (it was the late 19th century and everything the Western Colonialists did in Mainland China had some form of socio-political motive). However, the translators have seen fit to depart in many instances from the RV and followed the KJV. They also retained the literal equivalents of the "thee" (ni men) and "thou" (ni) in the text.
The CUV, unfortunately, is also slowly becoming supplanted by a variety of modern translations that claim to be "modernising" the text for a new generation. That being said, the CUV has enjoyed unparalleled respect and honour among Chinese speaking congregations over the past century as to be comparable to that enjoyed by the KJV and Luther's German translation.
Morrow, please check your facts before saying something, ok?
Ming
It is irony of the highest degree that two Malaysian Chinese who think in Chinese are defending the English language while a "gwailo" like Morrow is so keen on prostituting his own mother tongue. His ancestors would look upon him with disfavour, don't you think?
Yaw
Careful Edmund. The last thing we want to do is behave in an unChristlike manner by using a derogatory word on a fellow being. While I'm not against using thee and thou in the bible translation, I don't think the KJV is the best bible translation. Did some research way back then when I was attending a Bible-Presby Church and was unconvinced with the arguments for KJV being the 'authorised" version.
Ming
My agreements with Bro. Sing above on the KJV were specifically on several issues - (1) the language and theology of the KJV translators were far closer to those of the framers of the WCF and LBCF and (2) the singular/plural 2nd person pronouns of "thee" and "thou" were faithfully preserved in the KJV (and for that matter, the RV and ASV later as well) and modern translations that abandon them do so to their own detriment.
Morrow
Sing...you need to read Jer. 22 and notice the use of thee and thou ...it is obviously singular and the way ye know it is that thou readest the context. Just as our you and your.
Sing F Lau
The whole point is... if there is a provision in the language to show precisely whether it is 2nd person singular or 2nd person plural, why don't use it. After all Hebrew and Greek has that precision, why don't just translate it exactly? Why obfuscate something which is perfectly clear? Why???????? I think that a Devil's work.
Morrow
You remind me a lot of a man I once knew who stated his philosophy this way...he said, "I try to figure out the most radical conservative position out there and then stand on that because I believe that is where God is.
Sing F Lau
Well, I just want to be in the middle of the road man.... often what is seen as the most radical position is just the plain old truth! It looks radical to those in the ditches on both sides of the road!
Morrow
Your Asian friend said that I was prostituting the English language. So much for civil discussion. When a person takes extreme views on every subject then he loses credibility on the subjects he is right on.
Sing F Lau
Brother, I apologize on behalf of my friend.
He said that in the context of English speaking people casting away the precision between 2nd person singular and plural pronouns. I think his point is valid.
Morrow
I respect you my friend and am amazed occasionally at your incredible mind. I am not blessed when it is used to fight fruitless and silly battles. Are some of the modern translation rotten? Yes...Is it a money making deal? Yes...does that mean that all scholarship in the original languages since the late 1500s is demonic? No.
Please...once in a while choose the hills you plan to die on instead of climbing up every one.
Sing F Lau
I am not dying just yet!
I intend to climb every hill in the way the Lord has called me to trudge! If I have enough strength, I will level the obstacles and cart them into the deepest seas. I do have a command from the Master to EXPOSE... the work of darkness.
Morrow
As to reading Chinese...the closest I will ever come to that is Chinese Checkers...and my wife beats me very badly at that.
Now... I am through for a while. The older I get the more I hate ...hate... debate. I really just want to preach the unsearchable riches of Christ.
Patron
Do it! feed the flock!....
Hart
Clarification is requested of 'preaching'?
'Unsearchable riches of Christ' vs. 'Certain reaches of the preacher'
Thanks
Sing F Lau
Use enough gimmicks and psychology, they shall be reached and taken captives - guaranteed.
Patron
network marketing and the doctrine of self-esteem is the #1 seller on the Western churches.... the western "flock" demands more relevant things than a 2000 year old story.... and Sing get ready cause we are exporting all these to the East, and so far they seem to like it too!
Morrow
BTW...there are some among the KJV only groups here in the States who DO advocate translating from the KJV into other languages.
Sing F Lau
The church has got along pretty well without KJT...
I prefer KJT because of its faithfulness.
It is the only translation that has "faith OF - OF - OF Christ Jesus" as the basis of our salvation in the many passages...
...Most translation has "faith IN - IN - IN Christ Jesus" as the basis of our salvation in the many passages...
I know, these sort of things make no difference to many. They don't really care.
Patron
2000 years ago some "elite" religious leaders and "teachers" had the "Only true faithful Scriptures" and they still failed to believe in the one the scriptures is all about........ by the same token "only true KJV" on many pulpits for years both arminians and 'biblicals' ???? !!!!
Sing F Lau
Having a reliable translation is one thing, rightly dividing it is quite another.
There are KJV-Onlyites who are militantly Arminians!
But only KJV will teach you the faith OF - OF - OF Christ... as the ground of justification.
