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A voltmeter is an instrument; as an instrument, it performs a specific task, i.e. to measure/manifest/indicate the voltage in the circuit. As an instrument, it DOES NOT generate the voltage in the circuit. EVEN SO, faith is an instrument in justification; As an instrument, it makes manifest the justified state (by God's free grace when dead in sin) of the believing one; it is NOT the instrumental cause of his justification before God. Isn't this elementary? |
https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/299595054545
January
18, 2010
Do
you agree with this statement,
"The
reason why any are justified IS NOT
because they have faith; but the reason
why they have faith IS because they are
justified"
from a Circular Letter
issued by the Ministers and messengers of the several Baptist churches,
convened in Association, at Philadelphia, October 4, 1785. Click to read here: pruning-deformed-branches.blogspot.com/2008/01/justification-circular-letter-in-1785.html
Sing
F Lau
How
does the statement above compare with the popular idea "justified by faith
alone"?
Erick
Chanax
justified
by faith alone...we do not mean that faith itself justifies us,for it is only
an instrument with which we embrace Christ our righteousnous...what is meant is
faith apart from works article 22 Belgic Confession of Faith...for your info, I didn't write the whole article down
Jason
Sides
I
would agree with it we are justified by faith alone however it is the kind of
faith only Christ can give and never is alone but always works.
Sing F Lau
I
paste here what I wrote under the previous update... a bit long, but read it
slowly, and may our Lord bless you with understanding to know the truth!
====
The
same Confession (1689 BCoF) declares that faith is a grace, among many other
graces, found in a justified person, i.e. faith is a PRODUCT of our free grace
justification.
Faith
is a PRODUCT of our free grace justification. It debunks the whole idea of
'justification by faith alone' as a complete LIE and HERESY!
The
product of justification CANNOT be the instrument of that justification in the
same sense - it is as simple as that.
The
same Confession declares these aspects of justification that the Reformed
people have become completely ignorant of: 1689.11.4
"God
did from all eternity decree to justify all the elect, (11) and Christ did in
the fullness of time die for their sins, and rise again for their
justification;(12) nevertheless, they are not justified PERSONALLY, until the
Holy Spirit doth in time due actually apply Christ unto them.(13)"
Decretal
justification of all elect in the decree of God.
Legal
justification of all the elect by the blood of Christ at the cross.
Vital/Personal
justification of an individual elect at God's effectual call out of the state
of sin and death to that of grace and eternal salvation.
Legal
justification is actually applied to an individual elect PERSONALLY. What was
legal becomes personal. This makes the grace of faith (and all other graces)
possible. This is spoken of in 1689.11.2
Experiential
justification by FAITH ALONE: "Faith thus receiving and resting on Christ
and His righteousness, is the alone instrument of justification;(6) yet it is
not alone in the person justified, but ever accompanied with all other saving
graces, and is no dead faith, but worketh by love. (7)"
But
all the reformed people make this aspect of justification the SUM-TOTAL
teaching of the Bible on justification. I wrote an article: "One Fingered
Hand is a Monstrous Deformity." Read it here
Note
carefully please concerning 11.2 above:
First:
faith is the alone INSTRUMENT of justification. We all know that the FUNCTION
of an instrument is to manifest/evidence the presence of something. The
function of an instrument is not to secure or produce something. An instrument
MANIFESTS something that is there. And God in His infinite wisdom has appointed
faith in Jesus Christ as the sole instrument to manifest the justified state by
the free grace of God.
Why?
I wrote this in my book "An instrument is a device to make manifest or to
demonstrate or to evidence the presence of something for which the instrument
was designed. It has pleased God in His own infinite wisdom to appoint ‘faith
in Christ’ as the sole instrument to bring to light His gracious work of
justification at effectual calling since justification is grounded solely upon
Christ and His finished work. The just shall live by faith."
Second:
saving grace is a grace found in the person justified, along with many other
graces. Justification is the CAUSE, saving graces, including faith, are
FRUIT/EFFECTS.
THEREFORE
the statement "the just shall live by faith" debunks and discredit
the MOST popular lie of your 'justification (before God) by faith alone'.
Therefore
this statement,
"The
reason why any are justified
IS
NOT because they have faith;
but
the reason why they have faith
IS
because they are justified"
by the PBA is perfectly corrects, and debunks
the popular idea that "justification is by faith alone" is a very
popular LIE and FALSEHOOD.
The
truth should be, "Justification is experienced by faith alone." But
this simple biblical truth is rejected by ALL the reformed people, and
condemned as heresy!
Thank you, if you have read down to this point. May our Lord grant you understanding.
Erick
Chanax
Sing, the
thing about your posts is that it makes me study the scriptures, keep posting
brother, for I will keep on studying. Though I must admit I am not as educated in
theology as you, but nevertheless I keep on studying, thanks my brother.
Sing F Lau
Jason
& Erick... read through what I have written above, and you would understand
more completely what justification by faith is all about.
Justification is by God's free grace... and this justification by God's free grace is EXPERIENCED by faith alone, and EVIDENCED by faith as well as works.
Jason
Sides
Sing
I still contend we are justified by grace through faith; justification by faith
alone is not a lie but maybe needs clarification. He is the one who gives the
faith to believe not by our trying to conjure up the faith to believe but
rather him giving it to us, not of any merit on our own.
Erick
Chanax
It
makes sense, but as a Berean, I must study this matter, to fully grasp it. I have
to search the scriptures and some commentaries
Sing F Lau
Goading
friends to study Scriptures for themselves is all I desire. But many don't
study the Scriptures anymore. They quote this man and that man, and they repeat
this and that, without really understanding what they regurgitate.
Sing F Lau
jason@
"I still contend we are justified by grace through faith justification by
faith alone is not a lie but maybe needs clarification he is the one who gives
the faith..."
Justification
unto life is the opposite of condemnation unto death. Justification unto life
MUST be PRIOR to the ability to believe. Believing is AN EFFECT of justification;
being an effect of justification, the only role it plays is acting as an
instrument to manifest that justification that has taken place!
Justification
by faith alone is a big lie and error!
Justification by free grace EXPERIENCED by faith alone is a biblical truth. This is the uniform declaration of the many old school 'reformed' Confession of faith... e.g. 1689 CoF.
Erick
Chanax
mm, justified
by faith, it basically is being justified without works of righteousness, maybe
the wording is what throws some off, but like I said I will search the
scriptures
Jason
Sides
Sing
hopefully we both agree on Eph 2:8-9
Erick
Chanax
I
will also look at the 1689 CoF
Jason
Sides
I
am justified by the work of Christ and His grace in causing me to believe on
him for salvation. [sing: Then are you still justified by faith alone?]
Sing F Lau
Jason,
please read this, and see whether we agree on Eph 2:8-9.
Thanks.
https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2008/01/saved-by-grace-through-faith-whose.html
May our Lord grant you understanding beyond mere words repeated endlessly. Time to move beyond that.
Sing
F Lau
Erick,
our justification before God is NEITHER by faith nor by works... but by the
righteousness of Jesus Christ alone.
Experiential
justification is by faith ALONE, without works. No amount of works will enable
us to experience the blessedness of our justified state. Faith in Christ is the
ALONE instrument appointed for that.
Evidential
justification is by BOTH faith and works.
Jason
Sides
Sing
the problem is justification is by a work just not our work but as you stated righteousness
of Jesus Christ. I do for the most part agree with your link. Repent and believe
the Gospel was penned by Christ and it is he who causes the person to do both.
We have no capacity to do either.
Jason
Sides
I
do agree with John Gill's exposition of Eph 2:8-9
Sing
F Lau
Jason
@ "I am justified by the work of Christ and his grace in causing me to
believe on him for salvation."
That's
more like the truth. So where does your faith come in your justification by
God now? Does it still figure in your justification by God's grace alone -
since it is INSISTED that it is SOLELY and WHOLLY based on the finished work of
Christ - before God?
What
kind of salvation did (simple past tense) the justification by free grace bring
to you?
What
kind of salvation does (simple present tense) your believing in Christ bring to
you?
Are
they the same?
Sing
F Lau
Jason@
"I do agree with John Gill's exposition of eph 2:8-9"
What
is the gist of what Gill say?
