How is a man justified BEFORE God? There are all sorts of responses to this vital question?
Many say faith and works, others faith ALONE, some say work, and a few say grace alone.
Read this exchange.
Keesee
John Piper approves the gospel of NT Wright as being the same gospel that he preaches, how is that reconciled with the following comment?
"Justification, at the last, will be on the basis of performance, not possession." (NT Wright, Romans, 440).
He rejects that we possess the righteousness of Christ and that our works will be the deciding factor. No, that is anti-gospel. Sola Fide!
Berge
Seems to me that Piper has gotten rather liberal in resent years
Sing F Lau
Concerning justification, please consider this:
There are FIVE distinct aspects of justification taught in the Scriptures.
1. There is DECRETAL justification in God's purpose. All elect are justified in the decretal sense in Christ Jesus. This is sometimes known as 'eternal justification.' Many misunderstand this term to mean that actual/personal justification took place in eternity. That is a pathetic error and misrepresentation.
2. There is LEGAL justification at the cross. All the elect are justified in the legal sense. The justification that was decreed for all God's elect in eternity was LEGALLY accomplished by Christ at the cross. The double IMPUTATION of sin, and righteousness took place at the cross. All the sins of all God's elect was imputed to Christ, and He suffered the full penalty and wrath of it, and the full and complete righteousness of Christ was fully IMPUTED to each and every elect.
- This is the LEGAL justification by the blood of Jesus Christ.
3. There is the PERSONAL justification by God's free grace. The righteousness that was LEGALLY IMPUTED to all the elect at the cross is PERSONALLY APPLIED to each individual elect at God's appointed and approved time - when each is effectually called out of their state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation. This is when an elect is PERSONALLY justified. What was LEGALLY IMPUTED is now PERSONALLY APPLIED. What was legal now becomes vital.
- This is justification by the free grace of God.
4. There is EXPERIENTIAL justification when God's children is brought to faith in Christ. This is the justification spoken of in Gen 15:1-6. Blessedness of our justified state is experienced by faith in Christ alone. Many Calvinists mistake and confuse this with the VITAL/PERSONAL justification by God's free grace. This part is grasped by the new school calvinists, but they messed it up with the personal aspect by the free grace of God.
- This is the EXPERIENTIAL/EVIDENTIAL justification by the faith of the believer. Both faith and works are evidences of the justified states by the free grace of God.
5. Then there is the FINAL justification when the justified elect shall be publicly vindicated before all the wicked men and angels on the great judgment day.
These are the five and distinct aspects of justification taught in the Scriptures. They are the five fingers of a well formed hand.
They are taught by the OLD SCHOOL baptists, plainly summarized in the old confessions.
But new school calvinists believe only ONE aspect out of the five, and even them, they messed it up! They believe their justification by faith... which is the evidential aspect, but they see it as the the personal aspect by God's free grace.
The five aspects of the doctrine of justification is like the five fingers of a wholesome hand. But modern theology is a one-fingered hand, a monstrous deformity!
Take a look here: A One-Fingered Hand is a Monstrous Deformity: http://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2009/08/one-fingered-hand-is-monstrous.html
Keesee
Mr. Lau,
Thank you for your comment and insight.
I am not sure I understand your 'fifth finger.'
The phrase Final Salvation has been used by many who pervert the gospel of grace by trying to incorporate works. I am looking for a better understanding of what you mean by that.
I agree that Christians were Justifi(ed) by the cross, are currently Justifi(ed) because of the cross, and when the fullness of time passes and we stand before the King of Ages, we shall hear the verdict by the mouth of He who is not only Just but also the Justifier. In other words, Jesus paid it all and we are waiting for the inheritance that already are certain of because of the deposit given to us of the Holy Spirit.
Faith is the being certain of what we cannot now see but we are certain of nonetheless, our final condition of being just before God. We know that we have -already- been declared not guilty and we are running the race certain of the wreath that is to come.
I disagree with any statement that says the works of a Christian will have anything to do with their standing before God on that Day and the theological waters are so muddy in so-called Reformed circles these days.
Works correspond to treasures in heaven after you have been justified by faith alone in Christ alone, all to the glory of God.
I would love to hear your thoughts.
In love.
Sing F Lau
Dennis@Thank you for your comment and insight.
I am not sure I understand your 'fifth finger.'
========
Thank you for asking.
NO works involved in every aspect of the 5 aspects of justification except with the evidential aspect where both faith and works are evidences of the justified state.
The Final Justification is Public Vindication of the justified before the enemies... not so much themselves.
Keesee
So works are not a part of any type of Justification before God, right?
Works vindicate you before men only, right?
Final justification would be the final vindication before men when God declares you just by faith alone in Christ alone, right?
Thank you in advance for your time.
Sing F Lau
Works play NO PART whatsoever in one's justification before God.
Works AND FAITH vindicate a man before his own conscience and men.
Final justification would be final vindication before men and angles when God vindicates a man JUSTIFIED BY H...IS FREE GRACE ALONE through the redemption of Christ alone.
FAITH, man's act of believing, plays NO role whatsoever in his justification before God.
Faith EVIDENCES the justified state of a man by God's free grace. t is the justified that shall live by faith, none other could or would.
Please ask further if I have not made myself clear.
Thanks for asking.
Sing F Lau
The RCC teaches FAITH PLUS WORK for justification before God.
The Protestants amputated one of those two gangrenous limbs, and declares that justification before God is by faith alone, and without works. The Protestant still ends up with one GANGRENOUS limb - justification by faith LONE! That is STILL CANCEROUS!
BOTH are gravely mistaken, one greater than the other.
The Scriptures plainly declares that justification before God is SOLELY and WHOLLY by God's free and sovereign grace. It has to be, and it is plainly obvious.
An un-justified man is a man STILL in the state of the condemnation of death, therefore incapable of anything towards his justification by God, a man in his un-justified state is utterly incapable of believing in order to be justified. Moreover, faith is a fruit and effect of justification by God.
FAITH is the alone instrument to EXPERIENCE the blessedness of the justified state that has taken place by the free grace of God... see Gen 15:1-6. Abraham was already justified by God when God called him out of the Ur of the Chaldeans. Many insisted that Abraham was an UN-justified man before God in Gen 12-14, and was justified by God only in Gen 15:1-6.
FAITH and WORKS are evidences of a justified state. They secure EVIDENTIAL justification.
The RCC mistaken them both for FORENSIC justification. The Protestant daughters of the RCC abandoned one, and hold fast to the other still gangrenous limb.
Both mistaken the means of EVIDENTIAL justification before one's own conscience and men as the instrument of forensic justification before God!!
Take a look here:
http://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2008/01/by-faith-alone-vs-not-by-faith-alone.html.
