So is EVERY ONE that is born of the Spirit.

"The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof,
but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth:
so is EVERY ONE that is born of the Spirit."

 

"The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is EVERY ONE that is born of the Spirit."

Please note carefully, won't you: "so is EVERY ONE that is born of the Spirit."

Can someone with a sound mind spell out those implications?

6 Comments

Sing F Lau

"...so is EVERY ONE that is born of the Spirit" means to say, either EVERY ONE is regenerated through the instrumentality of the preached word, or EVERY ONE is regenerated immediately and directly by the Spirit, i.e. WITHOUT that instrumentality.

The new school Calvinists with their cousins, both the old and new Arminians, insist that their preaching is a necessary instrument to the Spirit's work of regeneration.

The old school baptists believe that every regenerated elect is regenerated directly and immediately by the free and sovereign act of the Spirit of God, without means.

Of the two alternatives, one has fatal implications, and the other does not.

Sing
Many new school Calvinists - unless they embrace the plain truth that EVERY ELECT, without exception, is regenerated in exactly the same manner by the Holy Spirit, as declared by Christ Himself - embrace the popular notions that there are TWO different manners of regeneration:

1. The NORMAL manner: the sentient elect are regenerated by the Spirit through the instrument of the gospel preaching, BUT

2. The EXCEPTIONAL manner: the non-sentient elect, those elect that died in infancy and others that are mentally challenged, are regenerated directly.

They reject the plain truth declared by Christ Himself - ""so is EVERY ONE that is born of the Spirit."

They choose to believe a LIE. And to cover that obvious lie, they invent an exception to cover their ERROR. Very wise!

An error always leads to another more serious error! Flesh begets flesh. Lies beget more lies!

They just won't receive and accept the simple and glorious truth: "so is every one that is born of the Spirit" - i.e. by the free and sovereign activity of the Spirit of Christ, "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

Sing
There are other new school Calvinists that say, "Yes, we do indeed believe that there ONLY ONE WAY of regeneration: "EVERY ONE is regenerated by the Spirit through the instrumentality of the preached word ALONE. Therefore, no preaching of the gospel, no regeneration. None will go to heaven unless they hear the gospel preached and believe in Jesus Christ. There is none in heaven who have not heard the gospel and believe in Jesus Christ when they were on earth... one must hear and believe the gospel in order to be given eternal life...blah... blah...blah."

These new school Calvinists would have to conclude these if they are consistent (which they hardly are!)
- there is absolutely no elect of God among all those who did not hear the gospel... why? every elect of God will hear the gospel... there is no elect of God who will not have the opportunity to hear the gospel...
- there is absolutely no elect of God among all those who did not BELIEVE the gospel... why? every elect of God will hear the gospel AND BELIEVE the gospel too.

Are they prepared to own those inevitable implications of their notion?

And they invent the 'WHOLE PACKAGE' fiction that hearing the gospel and believing and persevering in a life of faith and obedience to the end of their life is part of the 'WHOLE PACKAGE' of the eternal salvation God secured for His elect.

Sing F Lau
The old school baptists, who stood upon the truth of the Scriptures, condemn the new school Calvinists for their blatant lies.

The old school baptists believe that EVERY ELECT is regenerated in EXACTLY the ONE same way, based exactly upon the ONE same ground, the redemption of Jesus Christ.

The old school baptists declared, in conformity to the Scriptures that they are God's children (elect regenerated freely and sovereignly by the direct and immediate activity of God) who are incapable of hearing and believing, and there are others who are incapable of being outwardly called by the gospel, i.e. they have no opportunity to hear the gospel in their lifetime on earth.

The new school Calvinists are not the children or descendants of the old school baptists, despite all their claims to hold to the same ancient confession framed by them (1689 LBCF), which faithfully summarized the truth of the Scriptures.

Regeneration by the direct and immediate activity of the Spirit of God ALONE, without any human instrumentality whatsoever, is the truth that salvation is indeed "by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed."

ONLY one way will GUARANTEE that the promised salvation in Jesus Christ be SURE TO ALL THE SEED.

Introduce any human instrumentality, and many of God's elect shall be excluded from their eternal inheritance!

But thank God that will not be the case, despite the LIES embraced, preached and defended by the new school Calvinists.

God will still do His holy will despite the fact that His children (of the new school Calvinist label) believe and preach LIES about their regeneration!

The KJT word for such is 'BASTARD'!

Jerry Chapin
@Sing, Isaiah had a word for them..."And in that day, seven women will take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread and wear our own apparel, ONLY LET US BE CALLED BY THY NAME, to take away our reproach." Isaiah 4:1

And these signs shall follow them that believe

And these signs shall follow them that believe

https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/10200712171382148
October 1, 2013  ·   ·

Mark 16:17 says, "these signs shall follow them that BELIEVE."

This is a popular passage with the charismatics. They insist that "them that believe" refer to those who will believe the preaching of the gospel throughout the gospel age. They are so sure of their interpretation.

A good question to ask is, "to whom does the pronoun 'them'  refer?" Asking relevant questions is a good step toward learning the truth. Good questions aid in rightly dividing the word of truth.

Here is Mark 16 from KJT.
14 ¶ Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

There are TWO distinct groups of people spoken of in the passage above:
- the UNBELIEVING ELEVEN, v14.
- EACH INDIVIDUAL who hears and believes the gospel (v15) preached by those of the ELEVEN who believe and obey the command of Christ to them (v15)
- Verses 14, 15, 17 and 18 speak of the ELEVEN apostles... The plural pronoun 'they' and 'them' are used in these verses.
- Verse 14 states the unbelief and hardness of heart of the ELEVEN apostles.
- Verse 15 speaks of Christ's command to the ELEVEN apostles... in their unbelief and hardness of heart.
- Verse 16 speaks of each creature who believes and is baptized (presupposing that some of the ELEVEN apostles will cease in their unbelief and hardness of heart, and obey the command of Christ to them.) The singular pronoun is used in this verse.
- Verses 17 and 18 state the great promises of Christ to those of the ELEVEN apostles who will believe and obey the command of Christ to them.

All I ask of the charismatic is simply this: show me one example in the whole of the NT where ALL the signs promised in verses 17 and 18 are fulfilled in anyone who believed and was baptized under the ministry of the Apostles.

However, it is plain and obvious that the signs were abundantly fulfilled among the apostles who did believe and obeyed and preached the gospel. Just read the Acts of the Apostles!

It is obvious that those promises were given to those ELEVEN who were in unbelief and hardness of heart.

They were APOSTOLIC SIGNS... reserved and restricted chiefly to the apostles.

Even the apostles needed some great incentives! Their commission was accompanied by some great promises. And they FINISHED the great commission committed to them.

So, the charismatics are clearly MISGUIDED about this passage. They are reading their pet imagination into the text. 

In context, it was those of the ELEVEN who believe shall have the apostolic signs following them. The SIGNS were not promised to the individual who will believe in the preaching of the apostles.

Those signs went KAPUT with the passing of the apostles... with no relevance beyond the apostolic age.

5 Comments

Sing F Lau

http://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/.../the-signs-of-apostles_30.html
Things New and Old: The signs of the apostles

Cantoro Joe

I won't agree that 'them' in v17 refers to the apostles. Not only the apostles had the gift of tongues, casting out devils, healings etc.

As long as there's any new addition to God's word above the recognised OT, signs had to be shown. A miracle could be a sign or wonder.

The words spoken by the apostles were clearly the word of God since they were able to do signs. And those who believed the words of the apostles were able to do sign gifts - though each believer had different gifts.

The early NT believers could only have their belief effective if something was promised to them - faith must have an object. In the case of the early NT church, the apostles promised different believers would have different gifts. These promises were especially addressed to those who heard the words of the NT directly from the apostles themselves.

Why then did the sign gifts here cease at the passing of the apostles? Because the promises of the apostles to the early NT church had ceased when they died! Dead people cannot speak any word of promise for others to believe. By the time the apostles died, no more words could be added to the 66 books!

Today we don't hear directly from the apostles. The words which they wrote addressed some specific issue in a particular place at a particular time in history. We could thus only apply the promises of the sign gifts given to early NT believers.

I give an e.g. to illustrate my point - Acts 19. When Paul spoke about the belief in the Lord Jesus (who had promised to baptize the church with the Holy Spirit), and Apollos' disciples believed, they were suddenly able to speak in tongues.

Paul did not tell us these words directly. We could thus only draw the applications. Apollos' disciples were in need of the gift of tongues at that time. Today, no.

Thus, a portion like Acts 19 shows that only those who believed the words spoken of directly by the apostles could receive the sign gifts, and not anyone who reads the same words spoken of the apostles in written form (through reading of the Scripture).

The Scripture never said that: 1) someone read the Scripture --> 2) believed --> 3) demonstrated sign gifts.

Sing F Lau
Cantoro, as I asked of the charismatic, so I ask of you: show me one example in the whole of the NT where THOSE signs promised in verse 17 and 18 are fulfilled in anyone who believed and was baptized under the ministry of the apostles. Thank you.

Brief and straight to the point will do. Thanks.

Cantoro Joe
Acts 19:2-6 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Acts 2:7-8 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Acts 2:12-13 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

We note that the miracle was with those who believed, and not with those who did not believe.

1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

The Corinthians were most noted for the gift of tongues.

Acts 10:44-46 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Thus, how one may receive the gift of tongues miraculously:

Apostle spoke --> Hearer believed --> gift of Holy Ghost poured out

Sing F Lau
Cantoro, READ READ READ Mark 16:17-18 carefully, please. Thanks.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name
- shall they cast out devils;
- they shall speak with new tongues;
- They shall take up serpents; and
- if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them;
- they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

And just because you read "they shall speak with new tongues" and elsewhere you read some believers speaking in tongues, you are so easily misled to believe that these great promises were given to the believers of the apostles' ministry!!!

What about the rest? Did the Apostles or those who believe in the apostles' teaching go around DOING THOSE THINGS in the name of Christ???

Do you see why apostle Paul said,
2Ti 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

Don't rave like an idiot!

 

What can the spiritually dead do with the offer of salvation?

 September 25, 2018

Simple biblical truth:
- God purposed eternal salvation for His chosen people,
- Christ accomplished that eternal salvation for the same,
- The Holy Spirit freely and sovereignly applies that eternal salvation to each of the chosen people in God's own appointed time when they were still in their native state of sin and death, and in enmity against God.

The preaching of the gospel is God's ordained means of calling out His redeemed people, those to whom He has freely bestowed the eternal salvation, calling them to believe the truth of their salvation in Jesus Christ, make disciples of them, gathering them into the churches of Jesus Christ, teaching them that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, they should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world.

The free offer of salvation is just stupid (i.e. lacking common sense); in the offer, salvation is obviously and necessarily offered to those without salvation, even those dead in trespasses and sins; it is as superstitious as offering food to the dead.

There is no offer in the preaching of the gospel; there is the proclamation of the good news of what God HAS DONE to save His people in Jesus Christ, calling the hearers to believe the truth of their salvation. Those that ARE SAVED among the hearers perceive the gospel as the good news of God's mighty power in saving them. To the rest, the same gospel is foolishness.

1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved, it is the power of God.

The preaching of the gospel is brought to them that are saved, that have been saved - to whom the Holy Spirit has freely and sovereignly applied that eternal salvation when they were still in their native state of sin and death, and in enmity against God - calling them to believe the truth of their salvation by the free and sovereign grace of God.

Eph 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.

Their salvation by God's free and sovereign grace is PRIOR and DISTINCT to their act of hearing and believing the truth of their salvation; otherwise, there would be no truth of their salvation to believe.  They are called to believe what is ALREADY TRUE, not in order to make something come true. That's Arminianism as well as Calvinism.

This is simple and plain to minds that have not been poisoned by lies and soundbytes.

The 'Effectual Call' is the First Divine Act in the Application of Redemption

 

September 25, 2010 
https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/pfbid021wBsQYXXWV47z6YL4JnjCTc9C4zYyGZG26YmxnqBPxd88WkwT6xEm7EUhEERMbBVl

An elect in his native state is under condemnation and death.
What is the first thing God does when He applies the redemption that Christ has secured for all His people?

The 'effectual call' is the first divine act in the application of redemption. But what is effectual calling?

Effectual calling is God calling an elect out of the state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation by Jesus Christ.

Sing F Lau
The effectual call is God calling an elect out of the state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation by Jesus Christ. This is what the theologians termed Definitive Sanctification: a definitive separation from the state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation, that is decisive, perfect and complete, once and for all.

To call a man out of the state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation would require these divine acts, in this number and LOGICAL [sic] order:

- justification of life by God's free grace (removal of the condemnation, righteousness applied personally)
- regeneration (eternal life bestowed, removal of spiritual death)
- adoption into God's family (removal of alienation).
- Bestowal of the Spirit of adoption to dwell within a child of God. (As a result of all these gracious acts in the effectual call, his elect is now as fit for heaven and eternal glory as many.)

Nothing else is needed for his ETERNAL salvation. All these are by the free grace of God... without the elect meeting any condition, for he simply can't meet any.

But many things are needed for his well-being as a child of God here on earth. That's where the ministry of the gospel is crucial for the well-being of God's children.

THEN and ONLY THEN, a man is capable of believing!

Faith cometh by hearing...

And in believing, his faith justifies him as one whom God has justified freely by His grace, regenerated freely by His grace, adopted freely by His grace, and indwelt by the Spirit of God.

Sing F Lau
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to CONDEMNATION [OF DEATH]; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto JUSTIFICATION OF LIFE.
19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Sin brought the condemnation of death.
Righteousness alone secures justification of life

There is a justification that is by God's free grace, PRIOR to any ability to believe. God justifies the ungodly, condemned sinner, and such is incapable of believing.

And there is a justification by the believing act of a child of God. Believing justifies a child of God.

The former is forensic; the latter is evidential/experiential.

Failing to distinguish them is the root of much confusion.

A biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology.

May the Lord give you understanding.

But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

Sing F Lau
But many Calvinists understand the effectual call as the gospel call made effectual unto the CONVERSION of a sinner, the preaching of the gospel is blessed and used to regenerate someone dead in trespasses and sin, and enable him to believe... and in believing he is justified by God!

That is another subtle PERVERSION and TWISTING of the gospel truth.

Jerry Chapin
Brother Sing, Since Calvinists claim the TULIP, don't they contradict the first letter on the pole? T = total Depravity. If one is totally depraved, doesn't that mean they have no facilities as far as spiritual things go?

Scripture says, "But the NATURAL man receiveth NOT the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him, neither can he KNOW [understand] them because they are spiritually discerned." [1 Cor. 2:14]

The NATURAL man is DEAD in trespasses and in sins. If DEAD to Spiritual things, then how are they able to respond to the gospel call to receive life???

Michael G. Morrow
London Baptist Confession 1644
"That Christ Jesus by his death did bring forth salvation and reconciliation only for the81 elect, which were those which82 God the Father gave him; and that the Gospel which is to be preached to all men as the ground of faith, is, that83 Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the ever blessed God, filled with the perfection of all heavenly and spiritual excellencies, and that salvation is only and alone to be had through the believing in his Name and that salvation is only and alone to be had through the believing in his Name.

That Faith is the84 gift of God wrought in the hearts of the elect by the Spirit of God, whereby they come to see, know, and believe the truth of85 the Scriptures, and not only so, but the excellency of them above all other writings and things in the world, as they hold forth the glory of God in his attributes, the excellency of Christ in his nature and offices, and the power of the fullness of the Spirit in its workings and operations; and thereupon are enabled to cast the weight of their souls upon this truth thus believed.

That faith is ordinarily87 begot by the preaching of the Gospel, or word of Christ, without respect to88 any power or capacity in the creature, but it is wholly89 passive, being dead in sins and trespasses, doth believe, and is converted by no less power,90 than that which raised Christ from the dead."

Dear brethren...I am afraid we look at something from our own perspective and forget that godly men disagree on many things. I believe the 1644 confession on these matters and the fact that they said "ordinarily" in the passage above doesn't bother me in the least. What does bother me is when men try to act like they have a corner on what the "old" Baptist taught. Love you all.

Sing F Lau
Brother Morrow, I agree completely with what you have quoted from 1644.
What bothers me is when "new" baptists like you fail to distinguish what the "old" baptists did state so clearly.

The eternal salvation bestowed upon an elect by God's free grace and the salvation that is obtained by a child of God through his acts of believing are TWO fundamentally distinct and separate salvation.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND the last paragraph. If not, please ask, and I will explain. I believe this is the greatest hurdle, and if you can understand this basic truth, then lots of confusion can be avoided.

The eternal salvation by God's free grace in Jesus Christ MUST BE RIGHTLY DIVIDED from the temporal salvation by the believing acts of God's children.

Because so many "new" baptists fail to distinguish these two distinct aspects of salvation, they IGNORANTLY and IRRATIONALLY insist that believing is a prerequisite for their eternal salvation. That is mixing grace and work together!

Believing is work! Read John 6:28 ¶ Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

I have always asked... and nobody cares to answer.

How does God save, and from what does He save His people from?

How does the believing act (of a child of God) save him, and save him from what?

Sing F Lau
Richy, faith is an EFFECT of salvation already bestowed; it is one of the graces worked in the heart by the indwelling Spirit of God.

That saving grace is manifested, drawn forth or BEGOTTEN through the gospel ministry. "Faith cometh by hearing." That faith worked in the heart by the Spirit is drawn forth through the preaching of the gospel.

All sane men will affirm that an effect of a Cause cannot possibly be at the same time the instrument to attain that same Cause!

That is just NONSENSE, rotten nonsense... but so many love such nonsense.

Might as well tell a dead man that if he breathes, he shall receive life.

Sing F Lau
Many do believe the sinner's prayer precedes new birth. There are just not here to rave and foam! <lol>

I love the rhyme of "cents... sense" and "bloat... gloat."
That's an apt observation.

The ministry of the word for the conversion

Pure grace excludes any works of man - 
whether the work of preaching
or the work of believing!

Which will you choose to believe:
- That God Himself applies directly the eternal salvation, secured by Jesus Christ for His own people, to the beneficiaries, or
- That God applies indirectly the eternal salvation to the beneficiaries through the activities of human preachers?

Which way is good news to you? Tell us why.

Is divine grace delivered through human hands still good news or not? 'G R A C E' in man's wobbly hands will be turned into something monstrous!

Take heed if you trust man's wobbly and filthy hands of handling divine grace in your eternal salvation!!! Take good heed.

Here is an article of faith of the XYZ Sovereign Grace Church.

"We believe the preaching of the Gospel to be the God-ordained means by which the God-ordained end is accomplished; that the Holy Spirit reveals Christ and all spiritual blessings in Him to God's elect and brings them to repentance and faith in Him through the preaching of Christ and Him crucified; that we must with every opportunity and means and in every place afforded us by the providence of God, proclaim the Gospel of God's free and sovereign grace in Christ; that in the Gospel, His sheep will by the Holy Spirit, hear His voice and follow Him."

What do you think of the article?

PJ Walters
I didn't read anything about regeneration in the article, but it seems to be ok.

Zhao Liang Wei
Too humanistic

Sing F Lau
Explain please, Teoh. Thanks.
(Teoh deleted his comment)

Sing F Lau
Pj, is this ok with you, "that in the Gospel, His sheep will by the Holy Spirit, hear His voice and follow Him." The whole article is about this!

Adam Wells
Bro Sing, I think the phrase "hear his voice and follow him" is subject to interpretation. One may read it and understand follow him in a sense like "hear the voice of the son of God and live," whereas someone else may understand it to mean to follow him in discipleship.

I would assume they are referring to regeneration in that they say the gospel is the "God-ordained means by which the God-ordained end is accomplished." I reckon a bit more explanation would be fitting.

PJ Walters
It does not explicitly state that "all His sheep will" but that "His sheep will." Further, maybe my understanding is tainted, but that seems to me to be about conversion, not regeneration.

Sing F Lau
"that in the Gospel, His sheep will by the Holy Spirit, hear His voice and follow Him."
====
Is the life-giving voice of Christ heard through the gospel ministry?
That's my question!

PJ Walters
No, that is not how I understand it; but the author of that statement may have.
"In the exercise of the authority which has been entrusted to Him, the Lord Jesus calls to Himself from out of the world, through the ministry of His Word, by His Spirit, those who are given to Him by His Father, so that they may walk before Him in all the ways of obedience which He prescribes to them in His Word. Those who are thus called, He commands to walk together in particular societies or churches, for their mutual edification, and for the due performance of that public worship, which He requires of them in the world." 1689.26.5

Sing F Lau
The new school fullerite RBs will take 1689.26.5 as concrete evidence that the old school baptists held to gospel regeneration. How would you respond to that claim?

PJ Walters
Firstly, that the effectual call is already previously addressed in that confession. Secondly, that this is for the regenerate elect to be called not effectually: for that is prerequisite to this; but by the outward ministry of the word.

Robert Cook Sr.
Sovereign Grace Baptists are Presbyterians who dunk basically in their theology:(

Robert Cook Sr.
Only the old Baptists teach and preach the truth about eternal salvation.

Sing F Lau
1689.26 is about gathering the effectually called elect into NT churches.

Besides, 1689.20.4 states categorically:
"Although the gospel be the only outward means of revealing Christ and saving grace, and is, as such, abundantly sufficient thereunto; yet that men who are dead in trespasses may be born again, quickened or regenerated, there is moreover necessary an effectual insuperable work of the Holy Spirit upon the whole soul, for the producing in them a new spiritual life;(😎 without which no other means will effect their conversion unto God.(9)"

"Without which no other means will effect their conversion unto God."

We must not let the new school fullerites hijack the confession of the old school baptists!!! Show them that they believe contrary to what the old school believed!

PJ Walters
***conversion unto God***

PJ Walters
Distinct from regeneration!

Sing F Lau
Yes, yes, yeeeeeeeeeees!

The ministry of the word has to do with the conversion of God's children unto God, not their quickening out of their native state of death!

The old school fathers were far more logical and sound than the bastards who claim to be their descendants!!!