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Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; |
Leongsy
Sir, when one says God is immutable, what
exactly are the immutable qualities?
sing
Immutable means unchangeable.
In the Westminster Shorter Catechism,
Q4. What is God?
A. God is a Spirit, infinite, eternal, and
*unchangeable*, in His being, wisdom, power, holiness, justice, goodness, and
truth.
John 4:24; Job 11:7-9; Ps. 90:2; Jas. 1:17;
Ex. 3:14; Ps. 147:5; Rev. 4:8; 15:4; Ex. 34:6-7.
Please note: What is God, and Who is God are completely different questions!
God is immutable in all His attributes; that
which is eternal is immutable, not subject to change.
God's works of eternal salvation for the
elect are also immutable - they remain certain forever because God does not
change His mind.
Leongsy
So, if God won't change His
mind on all that He has determined, why do we pray then?
sing
That's a good question!
What are the "all that He has determined"
in your question?
Leongsy
Since God is eternal, I
presume that everything under His governance is also eternally determined. If
so, there is nothing that we, puny humans can do that wl change the things
which He has ordained.
Say, for example: if someone
has cancer, is there any hope from praying? If the cancer is because of
chastisement, it will go away if we stay away from sin. But if the cancer is
not because of chastisement, then it won't go away, so why pray?
sing
Your presumption "everything under His governance is
also eternally determined" is false.
God is indeed eternal. He executes all His
decrees in the works of
- creation,
- providence, and
- redemption.
In redemption, many things - those related to
the *eternal salvation* of His elect - were indeed eternally
determined/ordained, i.e. immutably fixed; therefore, they will most certainly come
to pass. God, by His infinite wisdom and power, shall cause those things to
happen.
Man, God's creatures, has no power or will to
change/nullify what God has ordained.
Man is a moral creature made in the image of
God and is endowed with free agency. All his acts are of his own free agency;
they are not ordained/determined/coerced by God. When a man sins, he sins
freely of his own accord; his sin is not determined or ordained by God;
therefore, he is without excuse. Otherwise, God would be the author of sin. But
God gave the most solemn warning against sin, "thou shalt surely
die."
sing
Does cancer fall into the category of things ordained/determined/fixed
by God, or Is cancer an effect of man's own carelessness
or stupidity in his lifestyle?
God is the God of providence; in His works of
governing His creation, He wisely and powerfully governs all His creatures and
all their actions for His own glory.
Leongsy
But some children inherited
cancer since they were born. So whose fault is it then?
sing
Exodus 34:7 KJV — Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving
iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty;
visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's
children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
Leongsy
But this is OT, does it still
apply in NT today? What about Ezekiel chp 18?
sing
The same principle applies. The lifestyle of a man will
affect his descendants for generations to come unless God, in His kind
providence, intervenes.
The descendants have NO RIGHT to blame their
situations on their forebears... They can turn away from the ways of the
forebears and turn to God for mercy.
The blame game started in Eden, and continues
unabated in every generation to this
day.
Eze18 is meant to stop that prevailing evil.
Leongsy
How about the many
denominations we have nowadays among churches? Did God determine them eternally, or is it again human sinfulness?
sing
Different denominations arise chiefly because of the different
understanding of the truth of God, as well as the sectarian nature of many
Christians; they must belong to denominational camps.
There are churches that are NOT
denominational, i.e. they are not part of a denomination; they are independent
churches under the headship of Christ alone. SDC is one amongst them.
Read the high priestly prayer of Christ in
John 17, and underline and highlight the phrase "that they may be one,
even as we."
If God had eternally determined them
(denominations) eternally, then Jesus' repeated requests were contrary to what
God has determined.
What prompted you to ask questions along this
line?
Is it that if diverse denominations have been
determined by God, then going to any, no matter what the beliefs, is fine?
Leongsy
Er, I was just wondering if
the Christians going to the different church denominations are actually called
by God to do so or it's their own choice.
Coz how could they attend Charismatic
churches? Didn't they do some checking before joining a church, to see if its
teachings are according to the Bible? Sometimes I wonder if these ppl are wheat
or tares?
I
mean, how can they simply become a member of any church without checking
if the church's teaching is sound? Once a member, it's a member for life, unless
they pluck themselves out of that church.
The harm that is inflicted by wrong teachings
is devastating. Don't these so called Christians care about what doctrines they
subscribe to? Is knowing Jesus the only thing that matters.
Sometimes I go into a church, and I listen to
the sermons; I already know that the pastor knows next to nothing. And the
worshippers there are equally ignorant. A pastor once told me that I cannot
choose the worshippers in the congregation, just like I cannot choose my birth siblings.
I don't want to be in that kind of church. It shows that the church is not
strong in God's Words coz the worshippers could not care less for God's Words
Sometimes, because the worshippers are naive,
the pastor also has no choice but to "lower" his IQ and make his
sermons easier to be accepted by the congregation.
sing
Discipleship is a lifelong journey of learning and growing in
the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
A whole host of human factors, within and
without that of a child of God, affect his learning and growing. There are
factors that are conducive and enhance that learning and growth; there are
factors that are detrimental and hinder that learning and growth.
Discipleship is a series of choices; it is
working out our own salvation with fear and trembling, to do the Father's will.
2Pet 3
17 ¶Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know
these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the
wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of
our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever.
I look into the mirror of God's word for
myself, and discharge my duty to the little flock under my care.
1 Timothy 4:16 KJV — Take heed unto thyself,
and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save
thyself, and them that hear thee.
I leave others to their own Master.
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