Things New and Old

Ancient truths revealed in the Scriptures are often forgotten, disbelieved or distorted, and therefore lost in the passage of time. Such ancient truths when rediscovered and relearned are 'new' additions to the treasury of ancient truths.

Christ showed many new things to the disciples, things prophesied by the prophets of old but hijacked and perverted by the elders and their traditions, but which Christ reclaimed and returned to His people.

Many things taught by the Apostles of Christ have been perverted or substituted over the centuries. Such fundamental doctrines like salvation by grace and justification have been hijacked and perverted and repudiated by sincere Christians. These doctrines need to be reclaimed and restored to God's people.

There are things both new and old here. "Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things"
2Ti 2:7.

Wednesday, August 19, 2026

The Father's Love - Contingent or Independent?

 

The Father's Love - Contingent or Independent?

I was clearing out some old emails and came across this in a discussion group.

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 12:14:52 -0400
From: "Chris " <pastorchris@xyz.com>
Subject: Re: The Father's Love - Contingent or Independent?

Marie: "We do actually love God and actually exercise faith in Him, but only because God loved us first and opened our hearts so we would believe."

Chris: True, but John 16:27

"For the Father himself loveth you, BECAUSE ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God"

seems to reverse the order.  So, how do we reconcile the texts without damaging or dismissing one?

BTW, I don't have an underlying purpose other than to see how to treat this verse in light of other texts that show God's love toward sinners as being causal rather than reactive.

By grace,
Dr. Chris, Pastor
Fxyz Baptist Church
North Wilkesboro, NC

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xing <xingpenang@gmail.com>
Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 3:07 PM
To: Chris <pastorchris@xyz.com>

Dr Chris,
I am responding off-list.

The answer is actually quite simple, once we distinguish the unconditional love that FIRST made us God's children... and the conditional love of the Father towards His children based upon their obedience to Him as their Father.

The first is what is commonly designated as ETERNAL SALVATION by the free, unconditional and sovereign grace of God.

But there is a separate and distinct salvation, commonly designated as TEMPORAL SALVATION in this earthly life, that is contingent upon the obedience of God's children.

This is the salvation that God's children must work out for themselves with fear and trembling in doing the Father's will. The Father's blessing them is conditioned upon their obedience.

God's children are fully responsible for their TEMPORAL SALVATION, salvation pertaining to this life.

God ALONE is responsible for their ETERNAL SALVATION.

Divine sovereignty and human responsibility have often been misunderstood.

I believe 'human responsibility' applies to God's children [i.e. the elect whom God has effectually called out of their NATIVE state of sin and death to that state of grace and salvation] alone... and NO ONE ELSE. They, as God's children,  are responsible to work out their own temporal salvation as God's children in this world.

Many 'reformed' folks apply the human responsibility to sinners dead in their sins, INCLUDING the non-elect. They fail to see the obvious moral problem of God holding such responsible to believe the gospel... i.e. believing Jesus died for them even though God did not send Jesus to die for them... The gospel message is true only of the elect, especially the regenerated elect.

just my two cents of common sense

sing in the south seas.

Do a search here

http://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/search.
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Marty-Sandy Smith
Good answer, and English is sufficient for answering. But when the significance of John 16:27 first hit me, I thought I should grab a concordance and check on the Greek words. We love him because he first loved us is "agape" - the everlasting, binding, sacrificial love of the unchanging almighty God. The Father's love in John 16:27 is "phileo" - the love of friendship.

God's fatherhood to His children is unconditional and everlasting; God's friendship is conditioned on our belief and love.

Abraham was chosen and blessed unconditionally - before he ever manifested any faith or obedience. Abraham was call the Friend of God after he had placed Isaac on the altar.