Nov 6, 2010
Alan
Hi Sing, I'm just wondering what your view is, that if there
is no point preaching to those who are dead in sins and trespasses, if you say
then that was never true of the elect? in other words, as the elect of God, was
there ever a time when you were dead in your sins and trespasses?
Sing
I am glad you are inquiring about what I believe. It is better
that you do know what I believe, rather than misunderstanding or
misrepresenting me. God bless you.
Will you please tell me the point of preaching the gospel to
them that are still dead in trespasses and sins. I would like to hear. You
know, superstitious Chinese loves to offer good food, really good food like
roast chicken and roast piglets, etc. to the dead...
Jesus told Peter, "Feed my lambs.... Feed my sheep...
Feed my sheep." Get the point. Jesus didn't say, "Lamb my lambs and
sheep" or "Help me raise my dead sheep..."
You asked: as the elect of God, was there ever a time when
you were dead in your sins and trespasses?
Let me put this in the simplest form:
- ALL MEN were conceived and born in sins, without exception.
All men by nature are described in Eph 2:1-3
1 ¶ And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses
and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of
this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that
now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past
in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind;
and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Note the various things said:
- dead in trespasses and sins;
- walked according to the course of this world,
- walked according to the prince of the power of the air
- were children of disobedience
- were children of wrath...
- EVEN AS OTHERS, even as the non-elect.
ALL THESE are as true of the elect in their NATURAL state,
even as others.
Each individual elect is effectually called to grace and
salvation at some point between their conception and death - directly and
immediately by the divine activities of God, i.e. without man's aid or
instrumentality.
And God sends out preachers to preach the gospel - the good
news of what God has done to save His elect through His Son Jesus Christ - to
such, so that they may be CONVERTED to the truth, and live as God's children...
I hope the above helps
Alan
And God sends out preachers to preach the gospel - the good
news of what God has done to save His elect through His Son Jesus Christ - to
such, so that they may be CONVERTED to the truth, and live as God's children...
So again, I agree with what you are saying; however, how do the preachers know to whom to preach the gospel to and how do they know when and where they are being sent? Sorry if I seem dense to you, but my way of thinking says the call is a universal call, but obviously the wind listeth where it wills and only those He blows on are quickened. See, many are called, few are chosen. Don't we beseech all men to repent and believe, knowing that God will give His own the internal call.
Sing
You asked, "However, how do the preachers know to whom
to preach the gospel?"
=======
The preacher DOES NOT NEED to know who... and he DOES NOT
know who among his hearers are the elect. BUT he must most certainly know that
the purpose of his ministry is to reach God's children among his hearers, that
his preaching the gospel is relevant ONLY to God's children, THAT IS, the elect whom the Spirit has regenerated. But God's children
among his hearers will MANIFEST themselves through faith in the Lord Jesus
Christ preached in the gospel.
The preaching of the gospel WILL BRING TO LIGHT, MAKE
MANIFEST those that are God's children among the hearers - they will show
themselves through their faith in their Saviour.
You asked, "How do they know when and where they are
being sent"? Christ is the head of the church, and the Holy Spirit will
lead those who are Christ's gift to the church.
"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and
some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the
saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of
Christ..."
Too many are called and sent forth by MISSION BOARD... and
not by Christ! I see many missionaries as those on baptised exotic holidays
paid handsomely by mission boards... mission boards have usurped the role of local
churches and the Holy Spirit!
Public proclamation is by its very nature public. It is
addressed to all... telling them the glorious gospel of what God has done for
His elect people in Jesus Christ, and applied by the Holy Spirit, and calling
the hearers to believe. And only God's children among the hearers will believe
the gospel.
God's effectual call HAS TAKEN place BEFORE - BEFORE -
BEFORE the gospel call issued by the preachers!
You are still stuck with the LIE of gospel regeneration...
that God will give His internal call ONLY after the gospel call is issued! You
still condition God's internal call to the man's external gospel call!
Oh, that seemingly INCURABLE disease! Worse than AIDS!
Sing
Alan@ "See many are called few are chosen."
Please take your time to consider this carefully.
The parable in Mt 22:1-14 ends with these words." For
many are called, but few are chosen."
The phrase 'many are called but few are chosen' has been
PROSTITUTED and ABUSED for SO LONG that very few understand what it means
anymore.
The phrase must be understood in the context of the parable
where it is found! Three rules of interpretation: Context, context, and
context!
If the calling and choosing is not restricted to the
context of the parable, then it is just plainly OUT OF CONTEXT. So, if 'chosen'
is ...equated with 'choosing before foreknowledge' then it is plainly wrong!
And if calling is related to gospel calling to eternal salvation, it is also
plainly wrong.
The parable is not about getting eternal salvation. The
parable informs us something about the kingdom of heaven - though many are
called to enjoy its blessings, yet only a few are chosen to enjoy it.
The parable of the kingdom of heaven deals SPECIFICALLY
with God's children among the Jews. The kingdom of heaven is a term used
specifically to contrast with the earthly theocratic kingdom that God's children
among the Jews are so familiar with. They are called to leave it, and to enter
the kingdom of heaven... leave the old covenant kingdom to the new covenant
kingdom.
That's the context of the 'many are called but few are
chosen.'
Many of them are called by the gospel, but only a few of them
were chosen to enjoy the blessings of the gospel.
Many of God's children among the Jews are called by the
gospel. (NOT ALL of them are called by the gospel call.) Though many of them
are called by the gospel call, yet only a few were chosen to believe and
experience the blessings of the gospel.
Many of God's children among the Jews were blinded... only a
remnant of God's children among the Jews were chosen to believe the gospel.
Read Romans 11...
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of
this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in
part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There
shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from
Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away
their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your
sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Alan
Well, I again agree with you, especially about missionaries,
if you're not called, stay home. Second, I am sure that God does not need men to
save men. I myself came to believe that through no human agent. God alone quickened me
through His Spirit. No, I think regeneration is a complete act of God through the
Holy Spirit.
Alan
So Jesus is just addressing the Jews in the parable, I can
see that in fact I think that is the case in a lot of the gospel; after all, He
came to His own but His own did not receive Him.
Alan
What is your position on eschatology?
Sing
What about eschatology? Any thing specific?
Alan
Just wondering your position; what do you believe concerning
the millennium; pre, A or post, I'm wondering because Gill was historic pre. I'm
wondering do you hold to the same?
Sing
I believe the millennium is the period between the first and
second coming of Christ.
At the end of the gospel age, Christ would return, general
resurrection and transformation followed by the great judgment, and the
ushering in of the eternal state of blessedness.
This is the beauty and simplicity of the gospel teaching on the millennium - to me anyway. I read the Bible, and that is what it says to me....
Alan
What would be Amil' I agree, can't get past one judgment of
the righteous and the wicked,
Sing
This is a test... get a new believer who has never heard of
the pre. post or a-mil stuff... get him to read the bible... ask him about the
matter... and he will tell you just that... Christ will come at the end of the
gospel age, accompanied by general resurrection and general judgment.... Then entering into the glorious eternal inheritance... WITHOUT that childish
idea of another thousand years of this sin-sick and cursed world...
Alan
True when I first believed, that's how I read it. You have to
do all sorts of theological gymnastics to come up with the dispensational view of end times; in fact, you just about have to re-write scripture, at best, their
interpretations are novel.
