Articles viewed at my blog Things New and Old
in the month, Sep 21-Oct 20, 2018.
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Visitors to my blog Things New and Old in the month, Sep 21-Oct 20, 2018. |
Initially posted here:
https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/pfbid0JdRPcc6WBVHRYVQCjZKWra2G2keb6ZQA3MWkKHr7L3WWwbEBVEKDTgcaWfcAALcql
Visitors to and the
articles viewed at my blog Things New and Old in the month, Sep 21-Oct 20,
2018.
Take a look, you may
learn a thing or two. When you see any error, feel free to instruct me in the
truth.
https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/
========
Kelvin Tan
Thanks to the
previous exchange I had with you, I have now learned what the "1689
London Baptist Confession of Faith", which I was previously unaware of.
By reading it, I
understand much better where you are coming from. I just have one question. You
may, of course, choose not to answer, but if you do, I would appreciate as clear
an answer as possible from you. This was point 6 in the summary that I have
linked here
6. We believe that
God, before the foundation of the world, and for his own glory, elected a great
host of men and women to eternal life as an act of free and sovereign grace.
This election was in no way dependent upon his foresight of human faith,
decision, works or merit.
My question is,
"How would you reconcile this belief with 2 Peter 3:9?
9 The Lord is not
slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering
to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to
repentance.
Reading this verse
gives people the impression that God wants ALL to come to repentance. If he
wants ALL, how can one believe that there is an election of "a great
host"? great in size, it may be, but its clearly not all?
Thanks in advance
for clarifying.
http://www.cbcridgecrest.org/a-summary-of-the-1689-london-baptist-confession-of-faith
A Summary of the
1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith
Sing F Lau
If you are
interested to learn, and not just asking for asking sake, this article may give
you light.
https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2009/10/lord-is-not-willing-that-any-should.html
The Lord is not willing that any should perish
Remember to whom
Apostle Peter was writing:
1Peter 1
1 Peter, an apostle
of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia,
Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 Elect according to
the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto
obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and
peace, be multiplied.
2Peter 1
1 Simon Peter, a
servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like
precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus
Christ.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Ask the right
questions, e.g.,
- what's the
promise?
- who are the
us-ward?
- who does the
pronoun "any" refer to?
- "perish"
in what sense?
- "all" of
who should come to repentance?
Kelvin Tan
Q: What exactly does
it mean to say that God is “not willing”?
sing: 'Not willing'
would imply not fixed nor decreed, therefore conditioned upon the believing
response of the Jewish believers. It is something in the providential, not in
the decretal, dealing of God.
Q: In what sense is
the Lord not willing that any should PERISH?
sing: Perish as in
being slaughtered and roasted by the pagan Roman army in the prophesied
judgment coming upon Jerusalem.
===
Seems a lot rests on
the interpretation of AD 70, instead of the 2nd coming of Jesus.
Is the former belief an axiom of all reformed Baptists?
Sing F Lau
You need to ask the
reformed baptists about that. I can't speak for them. I fear that the reformed
baptist are as CLUELESS as you concerning the Scriptures' momentous teaching on
the significance of the events surrounding AD 70 - the abolition of the old
geriatric theocratic kingdom of Israel.
May the Lord open your eyes. Amen.
Kelvin Tan
Oh, I thought your
church's denomination is of the reformed baptist/Calvinistic Baptists?
Its not? Your church
takes "1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith" as their fundamental
doctrine correct?
Sing F Lau
Kelvin, don't stray.
Keep to the subject. Answer these questions on the Scriptures you raised... No
need to waste time on the unrelated matter.
2Pe 3:9
The Lord is not
slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering
to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to
repentance.
Ask the right
questions, e.g.,
- what's the
promise?
- who are the
us-ward?
- who does the
pronoun "any" refer to?
- "perish"
in what sense?
- "all" of
who should come to repentance?
Answering these
relevant questions will help you to rightly divide the word of truth, not into
multi-dispensations, but dividing truth from fables.
Kelvin Tan
The subject I
started off with is the "1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith".
Interesting that you
are not even willing to explain to all your readers the fundamental doctrines
of your church, and what it stands for.
If you don't consider your church as a reformed baptist church, what exactly would you consider it as?
Sing F Lau
Kelvin, the subject
was 2Pet 3:9. Follow through this first, and I will answer the other peripheral
questions to your satisfaction. Don't be like a butterfly.... touching here and
darting there.
Kelvin Tan
I have already said
to you in our previous discussion.
Sing, you
interpret the end in that passage as the destruction of Jerusalem.
I interpret the end as the second coming of Christ.
Thus, none should
perish; the deadline is the 2nd coming.
Sing F Lau
Fine, thank you.
Kelvin Tan
Sing, I am
asking what denomination is your church 😇
Sing F Lau
No denomination;
independent.
Kelvin Tan
Ahh, so an
independent church that also adopted 1689 as its main doctrine. Okay thanks
Sing F Lau
I interpret the end
as the second coming of Christ.
---------------
The momentous event
of the END of the Jewish world DOES NOT register with you, does it? How sad.
Christ warned
against it, the Apostles warned against it, many are willfully oblivious of it.
See how Matt 24
begins... impressive temple building; see how 2Pet 2 begins... scoffers against
that warning of the coming destruction in AD70.
How could people be
SO BLIND to the plain facts stated right there is incredible.
Apostle Paul did
say,
"But if any man
be ignorant, let him be ignorant."
Kelvin Tan
Well, you choose to
reject that the kingdom program was postponed with the stoning of Stephen, and
the dispensation of grace began after that, to the benefit of all of us
gentiles. Jesus will return for the Jews again once the Gentile church has
reached the desired size, that means the Jewish world has not ended in AD 70.
Romans 11 has all the details.
You have the freedom to reject that view of course. Unlike you, I respect that different people interpret scriptures differently. I will not judge whether you are blind or not (and of course I won't do so in CAPS like you 🤣).
Sing F Lau
Kelvin, I can't
be rejecting that which is non existent, can I? The kingdom program is a figment
of imagination, Apostle Paul call such Jewish-centric things as fables.
You and I are
toooooo far apart in our theological moorings. Don't waste time banging our
heads together.
The OT theocratic kingdom has been geriatric and abolished forever. Read Hebrews.
Sing F Lau
I have reason to say
you are blind to the plain facts stated in Matt 24 and 2Pet 3 - they all relate
to the judgment in AD70.
Have you even
understood these two verses:
Mat 24
21 For then shall be
great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this
time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those
days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's
sake those days shall be shortened.
These words
described the horrendous judgment executed upon wicked Jewish nation in AD70.
In 2Pet 3, the
scoffers were the unbelieving Jews who mocked at the promised coming to execute
judgment upon the stiffnecked Jewish nation.
Read Matt 21
41 ¶ They say unto
him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard
unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42 ¶ Jesus saith
unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected,
the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is
marvellous in our eyes?
¶ 43 Therefore say I
unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation
bringing forth the fruits thereof.
DESTROY... the
kingdom of God shall be taken from you...
But your dispy
coloured glasses will prevent you from seeing the plain words of Christ.
Kelvin Tan
Your perspective is
interestingly narrow for someone with your life experience.
There is a reason
why there are so many denominations in Christianity. Different people interpret
biblical passages differently.
There are churches who sprinkle for baptism, there are also churches who do not regard baptism as necessary for salvation. There are churches who speak in tongues while others who believed tongues have ceased. Are you not aware of that?
Sing F Lau
There are all sorts
of different interpretations; they may all be wrong and contradicting the
Scriptures and repudiating the gospel; different interpretations CAN'T be all
correct at the same time.
Being woolly is not
a virtue.
There is a divine
reason for this command:
2 Timothy 2:15 KJV —
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be
ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Kelvin Tan
Sing, I feel we
should be careful not to pass judgment on others who disagree with us. Romans
14:5 tells us that each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
So, look to the
Scriptures, study both sides, and make up your own mind. But, do not be
judgmental towards Christian brothers and sisters who disagree with you.
Kelvin Tan
Starting in May
1992, Pastor Poh [and Lau Sing Foo] had been visiting the
group of believers in
Penang on the first weekend of every month. Series of studies on the local church, the
doctrines of grace, the charismatic issue, the Statement and the proposed
Church constitution
were covered. It was agreed that the 1689 Confession of Faith should form the doctrinal
standard of the church. The group opted for the name of “Sungai Dua Church (Reformed
Baptist)”.
====
This was from your webpage. Interestingly, you are telling me now that the church is no longer a reformed Baptist church?
Sing F Lau
That's true. The
good Lord taught us the many errors of the Reformed Baptists.
I blessed the Lord
that I'm still teachable and learning from the Lord.
Are you?
Take a look at this blog: it archived the theological controversies with the Reformed Baptists - pointing out why the Reformed Baptists have erred from the teaching summarized in the 1689 Cof. The Reformed Baptists appeared in the 1960s, nearly 300 years after the 1689 CoF was published.
https://pruning-deformed-branches.blogspot.com/
Kelvin Tan
Sing, I am
learning new things every day. As I have said, thanks to the previous exchange
I have with you, I have now learned what is the "1689 London Baptist
Confession of Faith", that I am previously unaware of.
By reading it, I
understand much better where you are coming from.
