A teacher states
these about hyper-calvinism:
1. Denies that the
gospel call applies to all who hear, OR
2. Denies that faith
is the duty of every sinner, OR
3. Denies that the
gospel makes any “offer” of Christ, salvation, or mercy to the non-elect (or
denies that the offer of divine mercy is free and universal), OR
4. Denies that there
is such a thing as “common grace,” OR
5. Denies that God
has any sort of love for the non-elect.
What do you think of
each of them... regardless of who believes or rejects them? Let's discuss each one of them.
-----------
Joseph Theodore
Nettles
Re: #1 - affirm
Re: #2 - affiirm
Re #3 - while the
gospel is given to be disseminated generally, it will only have its effect
specially. It is to be delivered with the command to repent & be converted
to all men under its sound, yet it will only have its effect on the regenerated
elect (whether regenerate at the time of hearing or to be regenerate at some
time in the future). Since we know not the state of all men, we as ministers
are to broadcast and let the Lord work the effect.
Re: #4 - if by
"common grace" is meant the rain falling on the elect & the
non-elect, blessings on the house of a non-elect as a benefit stemming from
blessings upon an elect in their household, etc. , then I agree. If by
"common grace" one means there is sufficient grace bestowed upon the
non-elect to allow for their redemption, then I proclaim "hogwash"!
Re: #5 - affirm. The Lord hates the wicked, and that right proper!
Michael Gowens
A belief in
sovereign election and particular redemption coupled with the Fullerite idea of
a "free offer" of salvation to all via the gospel makes for an
uncomfortable indictment on the Veracity of God. How is the claim that God
offers salvation to those who are not embraced in His covenant favor morally
consistent with Divine Holiness? Our God is not schizophrenic.
Sing F Lau
The elitist
calvinists are oblivious to their utter inconsistencies and confusion... while
they haughtily bash their 'intellectually' inferior 'arminians' cousins!
<LOL>
Sing F Lau
5. Denies that God
has any sort of love for the non-elect.
=====
Let's deal with this
first.
Distinction is the essence
of sound theology.
God, as the Creator,
in the covenant of creation, bound Himself to love and takes care of all His
creatures.
God, as the
Redeemer, in the covenant of redemption, bound Himself to love His elect only.
Redemptive love of
the Redeemer is restricted to the elect only.
Providential love of
the Creator extends to all His creatures.
When someone is
incapable to distinguishing the two, he should just keep quiet for a while
instead of denying this and that.
knocking off!
Michael Gowens
Regarding #4 and #5,
it is crucial to distinguish between God's benevolence (His general goodwill
toward all His creatures, arising from His loving nature) and God's love of
complacency (His special, particular affection for his own and the delight He
finds in relationship with them). When Scripture speaks of God's
"love", it speaks in terms of the second definition. When His
benevolence is under consideration, it speaks of His kindness, goodness, etc
(i.e. "His tender mercies are over all His works;" "The Lord is
good to all...").
Sing F Lau
1. Denies that the
gospel call applies to all who hear...
=========
The gospel is the
good news of what HAS HAPPENED, i.e. what the Triune God has done to save for
Himself a people.
And the gospel call
is to call out those whom God has saved to believe the truth of such salvation
by the power and grace of God.
The gospel call is
IRRELEVANT to all them that are not embraced in the redemptive work of God. To
say otherwise is to impugn upon the wisdom and character of God...
The preacher DOES
NOT need to know who who the elect are to declare that the gospel is relevant
ONLY to those embraced in the redemption by Jesus Christ. Scriptures declares
plainly that Christ came to save His people... and the gospel is relevant to
His people only... and the gospel call is relevant to His people only.
If some preachers
are schizophrenic, God is not.
God is not like US
government. Only USA government offers everything to the people in USA - legal
citizens as well as the illegal aliens! Worse, often favoring the criminals.
Only universalists
can consistent insist that the gospel call applies to all who hear... since
they believe Christ died to save all, and the decision of the hearers determine
their salvation!
Sing F Lau
2. Denies that faith
is the duty of every sinner
=========
If believing in
Jesus Christ is the duty of every sinner, then Christ must have died for every
sinner.
... if you are not a
stiff-necked die-hard arminians, you will protest that Christ did not die for
every sinner.
Ok, if Christ did
not die for every sinner, and you insist that it is the duty of every sinner to
believe that Jesus Christ is their Savior, are you not insisting that it is the
duty of some sinners to believe something which is not true of them, i.e. to
believe a fat lie.
Ah, that's your god -
one who requires people to believe a lie, and permits his servants to peddle
LIES. It is like Obama telling all them illegal aliens that they are
citizens... welcome to USA!
That duty is imposed
by some liars so that many sinners are to believe a LIE! Let God be true but
every man a LIAR!
That's not the God I believe.The God I believe requires His people to believe the truth of their salvation by His free and sovereign grace.
Sing F Lau
3. Denies that the
gospel makes any “offer” of Christ, salvation, or mercy to the non-elect (or
denies that the offer of divine mercy is free and universal),
==========
Please go and offer
some food to the dead, like the superstitious heathen do, before you deny this
or affirm that <LOL>
Christ said, 'GO...
FEED... FEED... FEED my sheep... lambs...'
Deceived and deluded
preachers think they are sent to go around to OFFER... OFFER... OFFER... and
offering to the dead in trespasses and sins, with the hope that their offering
may be blessed to bring eternal life to the dead!!!
Go and FEED... but
only deceived and deluded preachers believe that the Lord Jesus tells them to
go and FEED the dead!
Could there be a
greater tragedy than this confusion! This must surely be one of those doctrines
of the devils warned by Apostle Paul... 1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh
expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving
heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Think about this:
Offering salvation
to them that are still dead in their trespasses and sin is plain
foolishness.... as foolish as the superstitious Chinese do offer food to their
dead ancestors! They even offer paper Rolls Royce to them.
Offering salvation
to them that are saved (already effectually called to grace and salvation) is
equally foolish, and presumptuous... the offer not only comes too late, but
also irrelevant. Why offer salvation to someone whom God has already bestowed
salvation by His free and sovereign grace? Shameless presumption to do so!
So, to whom are the
preachers, calvinists and arminains alike, offering salvation? (as though they
were sent out to OFFER salvation!)
Christ didn't send
His servants out to OFFER anything. The devil does that. Christ sends out His
servants to FEED His sheep, the elect whom He has given eternal life.
They are sent to proclaim the good news of salvation to God's children, thus nourishing them with the truth of their salvation by God's free and sovereign grace.
Charles Page
@Joseph, you said
"whether regenerate at the time of hearing or to be regenerate at some
time in the future"
Would regeneration clearly have to be accomplished in the past before hearing?
Charles Page
On the surface I am
in agreement with all the above. However 'Hyper-Calvinism" is akin to the word we use here in America to define African Americans "nigger" Both
words are defamatory and ridiculing
You cannot name a single hyper-Calvinist to my understanding. To my knowledge the closest comes to Abraham Kuyper, yet I have two of his books I read and it is good Calvinism, no free offer!
Sing F Lau
Would regeneration
clearly have to be accomplished in the past before hearing?
========
The issue is whether
regeneration is conditioned upon hearing of the gospel, whether the gospel is
the necessarily means to bring about regeneration.
The sincere gospel
regenerationists insist that without their preaching, there is no regeneration.
Regeneration is
independent of human means.
Gospel may have been preached to an unregenerate elect, BUT he will think the preacher a foolish babbler... and the gospel foolishness.
Sing F Lau
To all the new
school calvinists, all the old school calvinists are hyper calvinists.
However, the tragedy is, many new school calvinists are embracing bland arminianism now... e.g. "Saving faith precedes imputed righteousness."
The new school calvinists are just a deluded bunch... they make themselves the standard.... those to their right are hyper... and those to their left are arminians.
Charles Page
@Joseph, you said
"whether regenerate at the time of hearing or to be regenerate at some
time in the future"
Would regeneration
clearly have to be accomplished in the past before hearing?
Sing F Lau
Would regeneration
clearly have to be accomplished in the past before hearing?
=======
Depends what hearing
you have in mind?
Without regeneration
there would no hearing of spiritual things.
Of course a man might have been preached to and heard the gospel outwardly... but there can be no spiritual hearing without the new birth! Spiritual things are spiritually discerned; except a man be born again, he CANNOT...
Sing F Lau
The canon of Dordt
rejected the notion that regeneration and believing could be at the same time
and nearly indistinguisable and yet in essence this is precisely the modern
Reformed position. It's position is one itti bitti step into Arminianism
something they adamantly deny!!!
The SBC is one itti bitti step going into reformed theology soon they will unite into a one world religion. That's syncretism for you!
Sing F Lau
The half-baked
calvinists are calling the old school people hyper... not realizing it
is they themselves that have degenerated toward bland arminiansim!!!
Charles Page
It is not idle
playful talk Sing, it is anguishing truth and especially for me right now, this
very morning. It is a tormenting truth that has ripped my own family apart and
when I speak to them about all this "Calvinism" they are mean and
attack me even though we have a criminal pervert as a apart of our faction. My
own daughter has now said if Danny (the pervert) and Daddy are going to heaven
then I want to go to hell.
Sing F Lau
Brother, I assure
you that I experience some of those perverse hateful talk all because we desire
them to know the truth!
Truth is no idle
talk... and all who would live godly SHALL suffer persecution.
