The Lord is not willing that any should perish
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise,
as some men count slackness;
but is longsuffering to us-ward,
not willing that any should perish,
but that all should come to repentance.”
2Peter 3:9
as some men count slackness;
but is longsuffering to us-ward,
not willing that any should perish,
but that all should come to repentance.”
2Peter 3:9
A Brother Glossy wrote:
This passage has been discussed by most at one time or another... and various thoughts have been expressed.
Some questions that can be raised about the passage:
Is the promise the same as in verse 4, “the promise of his coming”?
Who are the us-ward? Mankind in general? Or the Lord’s people?
What exactly does it mean to say that God is “not willing”?
In what sense is the Lord not willing that any should PERISH?
Perhaps the end of this verse is a good place to start… The all that should ‘come to repentance’ in any sense are those only who have been convicted, which are only those whose hearts have been made tender by divine grace.
Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.
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Date: October 16, 2009 5:39:50 PM GMT+08:00
Brother Glossy,
My cheapskate thoughts:
Q: Is the promise the same as in verse 4, “the promise of his coming”?
sing: Yes, the same, i.e. concerning the coming judgment in 70 AD.
Q: Who are the us-ward? Mankind in general? Or the Lord’s people?
sing: The Lord's people, the Jewish believers in Judea in particular.
Q: What exactly does it mean to say that God is “not willing”?
sing: 'Not willing' would implies not fixed nor decreed, therefore conditioned upon the believing response of the Jewish believers. It is something in the providential, not in the decretal, dealing of God.
Q: In what sense is the Lord not willing that any should PERISH?
sing: Perish as in being slaughtered and roasted by the pagan Romans army in the prophesied judgment coming upon Jerusalem. .
I did say they are cheapskate!
sing
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Date: October 17, 2009 3:18:37 AM GMT+08:00
Dear Brother Sing,
Thank you for your reply and answers.
Regarding “the promise” --- so you believe Peter is writing about the coming destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD? That could be. I’ve heard that position before. Can you help me see how that harmonizes with verses 5-7? In those verses, Peter refers to creation and that creation, “the heavens were of old…the earth standing…”, being “by the word of God”.
Verse 6 tells us that the world perished, being overflowed with water. Verse 7 refers to “the heavens and the earth, which are now…” are kept in store by the same word; the same word as in verse 5. But he says the heavens and the earth, which are now, are being reserved against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. So, is this the promise of his coming from verse 4?
Peter then writes about “the day of the Lord” in verse 10 through 13. It sounds more like THE last day than the destruction of Jerusalem? I would like to hear more.
Blessings from Glossy.
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Date: October 17, 2009 12:34:38 PM GMT+08:00
Dear Brother Glossy,
Here is the 2 Pet 3 passage under consideration:
1 ¶ This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3 ¶ Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 ¶ But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 ¶ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
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I will leave some scattered thoughts on these verses:
1. Peter was an apostle to the Jews, and he was writing to BELOVED Jewish believers.
These were told to be mindful of what the holy prophets, e.g. Isaiah and Haggai, etc, and the apostles of Jesus Christ have spoken about the violent ending of the nation of Israel. He was reminding the Jewish believers to be mindful… warning them not to be misled by unbelief. Jesus warned them too – Luke 21:20. Run and be saved from the destruction that was prophesied, and is most certainly coming. .
God’s beloved children who are disobedient may perish in temporal judgment in time… never in the judgment at Christ's second coming. It is quite obvious that the perishing spoken of in verse 9 is perishing in the temporal sense. God is not willing that any of His children among the Jews should perish in the judgment upon Israel in 70AD. None of God's children will perish in the second coming of Christ; all of Adam's race that were not given to Christ by the Father, and who were not redeemed by Christ shall most certainly perish. Therefore the perishing spoken of can only be a reference to perishing in temporal judgment!
'Not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance' make no sense if applied to the second coming, but makes lots of sense if applied to the day of the Lord in judgment upon Israel. None of Christ's redeemed people would ever perish in the second coming - "For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day." John 6:38-39. Romans 8:29-30 declares the same truth, "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."
If the Jewish believers do not take heed, they will perish in the hand of the Roman armies; they shall be slaughtered and roasted like swine when the prophecy of Christ (Mt 24:1ff) is fulfilled.
Israel is the chosen nation of God. It has remained since the beginning, its creation at the foot of Mt Sinai. They scoffed at the promised judgment to come upon Israel. They said, "Look, all things have continued, and will continue just as it had been. This impending judgment that was promised is just an empty threat! Israel has remained though it has gone through most horrendous trials and tribulations throughout its long history. The God of heaven is with this nation. It shall always endure."
Many Jewish believers are in danger of being affected by this lie. Apostle Peter refuted this idea by showing that things have not always remained as they were from the creation. EVEN the old world of Noah was overflowed with a universal flood, so it perished by one judgment of God. The old world ended with the judgment of the universal flood. The old world was purged, and those that were delivered from the destruction continued on in the world that has been purged of unbelieving and ungodly man. The old order of Jewish earthly kingdom, seemingly invincible thus far, shall also perish in the coming judgment. It must give way to a new order - the gospel age of the kingdom of heaven.
3. The 'last days' refers to the last days of the old Jewish dispensation.
They do not refer to the last days of the gospel age. The recipients of the epistle were indeed in the very last days of the old covenant that has existed for a long time. It is about to be done away - in a very violent way! This second epistle was written around the year 66AD.
'The Lord is not slack concerning his promise' certainly indicates something much imminent with respect to the original recipients of the epistle; it is most certainly not an event that is still very distant and remote into the future, like the second coming of Christ. The issue of 'slackness' does not arise with respect to something that is still soooooooo far off into the future.
The scoffers mentioned, and warned against, have direct relevance to the recipients of the letter. These scoffers will appear on the scene soon, and Apostle Peter forewarned these believers to be on the alert, and not to be deceived by them. As the time for the judgment draw nearer, scoffers will arise . So, it refers to an event much closer to them, and has direct and immediate impact upon them… it came in 70AD.
'The day of the Lord' in prophetic language speaks of the great day of judgment. That's how the Jews understood it in light of the OT prophets. Isa 13:6 "Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty." Joe 2:11 "And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?" Am 5:18 "Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light."
4. The ‘new heavens and a new earth’ is a prophetic term that speaks of the new the gospel age.
The language of the heavens and earth indicate the cataclysmic and violent nature of the complete overthrow and obliteration of the nation of Israel. New heavens and new earth is a description of the new and superior order of the new covenant. The dissolution of the 'heavens and earth' most certainly will affect these people directly and practically - the dissolution will happen in their time.
Many assume and take for granted that the phrase ‘new heavens and new earth’ must necessarily relate to the second coming of Christ, and not the new gospel age after the destruction and abolition of the old theocratic Israel. Consider these passages:
Isa 65:17 "For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind." This is a prophecy concerning the dawning of the gospel age. The former is abolished! Isa 66: 22 "For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.”
Both these passages are found in the context of the prophecy concerning the dawning of the gospel age, and the abolition of the old covenant order - temple, sacrifices, etc. The context in both is REMOTELY connected with the second coming of Christ... It seems that the new heavens and new earth spoken of is the new covenant which remains, and the former heavens and earth that shall be done away. The dawning of the gospel age is marked by the coming of the kingdom of heaven, slowly but surely replacing the earthly kingdom of the Jews, which was completely done away with in 70AD.
Haggai 2:6-9 “For thus saith the LORD of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land; and I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the Lord.”
When the Lord shake the heavens and the earth, he will usher in the new heavens and new earth... the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind, i.e. the former shall be abolished permanently.
The language in Haggai is similar to that used by the Lord in Mt 24.29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
It seems to me that the Lord's word here are closely related to the words in Is 65:17 "For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind" and Haggai 2 "I will shake the heavens, and the earth." The shaking of the heavens and the earth is accompanied with the making of the new heavens and the new earth.
- The new heavens and a new earth in Isaiah, Haggai and 2Pet speak of the new world order of the gospel age in contrast to the old covenant age narrowly confined of the tiny Jewish nation. The end of the Jewish economy is such a radical and cataclysmic transformation that it is only adequately described as the doing away with the former heavens and earth, and the making of the new heavens and new earth.
5. Read Gill's comment on 'the new creature' of 2Cor 5:17
There he speaks of the gospel dispensation as the new heavens and new earth . He said, "the sense of the whole may be this, if any man is entered into the kingdom of God, into the Gospel dispensation, into a Gospel church state, which seems to be the sense of the phrase "in Christ," in Galatians 3:28 he is become a new creature, or is got into a new creation, as it were into a new world, whether he be a Jew or a Gentile;
- for with respect to the former state of either, "old things are passed away"; if a Jew, the whole Mosaic economy is abolished; the former covenant is waxen old, and vanished away; the old ordinances of circumcision and the passover are no more; the daily sacrifice is ceased, and all the other sacrifices are at an end, Christ, the great sacrifice, being offered up; the priesthood of Aaron is antiquated, there is a change of it, and of the whole law; the observance of holy, days, new moons and sabbaths, is over; the whole ceremonial law is at end; all the shadows of it are fled and gone, the things they were shadows of being come by Christ, the sum and substance of them; and there is no more a serving God in the oldness of the letter, but in the newness of the Spirit:
- and if a Gentile, all the former idols he worshipped he turns from, and his language is, "what have I to do any more with idols? or what agreement hath the temple of God with idols?" all former sacrifices, superstitious rites and ceremonies, with which he worshipped them, are relinquished by him; with all other Heathenish customs, rules, and methods of conduct he had been used to: "behold, all things are become new";
- to the one, and to the other; the Gospel dispensation is a new state of things; a new form of church state is erected, not national, as among the Jews, but congregational, consisting of persons gathered out of the world, and anew embodied together; new ordinances are appointed, which were never in use before, as baptism and the Lord's supper; a new and living way is opened by the blood of Christ into the holiest of all, not by the means of slain beasts, as among the Jews, nor by petty deities as with the Gentiles; a new commandment of love is enjoined all the followers of the Lamb; and another name is given them, a new name, which the mouth of the Lord their God has named, not of Jews nor Gentiles, but of Christians; and new songs are put into their mouths, even praise to God:
- In short, the Gospel church state seems to be, as it were, a new creation, and perhaps is meant by the new heavens and new earth, Isaiah 65:15 as well as those who are the proper members of it, are new creatures in the sense before given.
6. When the apostles speak of the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, it is always stated in plain language, without prophetic figures. - Mt 25:31, 2Th 1:7ff, 2Tim 4:1.
Mt 25:31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory..."
2Th 1:7 "And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
just my cheapskate thoughts,
sing
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Date: October 22, 2009 2:43:28 AM GMT+08:00
Dear Brother Sing,
Just wanted you to know that I found your thoughts to be rich indeed instead of "cheapskate". While the viewpoint that you have brought out would likely be considered a minority viewpoint among PB's, it is the view that I held for many years.
I especially enjoyed the thoughts regarding the world that perished in Noah's day. The way it was in Noah's day was that while one world perished from the physical earth, another world began on this same physical earth. The antediluvian world ended and the post diluvian world began. This well compares to the ending of the Old Covenant world on this physical earth and the beginning of the New Covenant world on this physical earth. Those who attempt to compare Noah's day to the final conclusion of the earth have no physical earth remaining afterward with which to compare for they say the physical earth has been utterly destroyed and no longer exists. That scenario does not compare with the illustration regarding Noah's day.
Marksman
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Read here also: We look for the new heavens and a new earth
