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| A mind clogged with dirt prevents clear vision. Wooliness is the mother of all confusion. |
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| A mind rid of dirt can see clearly. Distinction is the essence of sound theology! |
Michael
Michael dear brother, did you listen to Paul's message?
He does not advocate "decisional" regeneration...or did you
miss the part about God opening Lydia's heart?
Sing, you will stand before God and answer for mis-representing your
brothers in Christ.
(Michael G M is an Adjunct Professor of Theology)
Sing
Michael, this
is what I wrote: "Decisional evangelism and decisional regeneration are
twin daughters gospel regeneration. Another
new school fullerite reviving a new path!"
No,
I didn't say Paul Washer advocates decisional regeneration. I did say that
"Decisional evangelism and decisional regeneration are twin
daughters" of the gospel regenerationists. If you have problem with my
statement, it is your honour to explain the error of that statement.
I
believe Paul Washer is a gospel regenerationist just like all the modern new
school baptists - they are fullerites. If I misrepresent him, I can repent now. So
please prove that I have indeed misrepresent you and your friends.
We
both will stand before God side by side...
-
you for your crime of misrepresenting those you label as 'hyper-C' as
ANTI-mean' while they are not.
- I
for my crime of rightly calling you gospel regenerationist, as well as your
buddy Paul Washer! <LOL>
Please
bear in mind that God opening Lydia's heart to understand the gospel truth IS
NOT THE SAME as God regenerating a Lydia dead in trespasses and sins.
REGENERATING
someone dead in trespasses and sins and ENLIGHTENING someone already quickened
are very different
Before
the gospel came to Lydia through Paul, Lydia was ALREADY a woman who feared
God, and worship God. READ the passage and see what it says... don't just make
it say what you imagined. May be to you, someone still dead in trespasses and
sins is able to fear God and worship Him and pray to Him!
Distinction
is the essence of sound theology!
Wooliness
is the mother of all confusion.
Michael
Mat
7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you
hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but
their heart is far from me.
7
Howbeit in ......vain do they worship me,...... teaching for doctrines the
commandments of men.
8
For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the
washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9
And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may
keep your own tradition.
Michael
It
is possible for a lost man to worship God. It is possible for unregenerate
people to go a long way in their experience of God. KJV Hebrews 6:1 Therefore
leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection;
not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith
toward God,
2
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of
the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3
And this will we do, if God permit.
4
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of
the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they
crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7
For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth
forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8
But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing;
whose end is to be burned.
9
But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany
salvation, though we thus speak.
Verse
9 says that these people were saved....though Paul was writing to them as if
they were not. So a person can be baptized, have hands layed on them, ...they
can believe in the resurrection and eternal judgment, be enlightened, have
tasted the heavenly gift, and in a sense be made a partaker of the Holy
Spirit...have a taste for the word of God and the eternal powers...and yet deny
Christ...that is ...deny Christ. They were never true believers...they had
never experienced regeneration...so a person like Lydia and Cornelius and
others can have these desires Before regeneration.
Michael
I
think you willfully mis-understand what you term Gospel Regeneration. When a
preacher preaches and God uses that in the regeneration of a sinner...it is NOT
the word of the preacher that regenerates...it is God's creative word spoken
into the heart by the Holy Spirit. Again you mis-characterize...you make red
herring...a false condition...clump everyone who disagrees with you into that
false position and then try to destroy them as you destroy your false premise.
Sing it won't work.
Michael
BTW...did
you listen to Paul's message?
Sing
Michael,
you mustn't accuse me of wilfully mis-understand the term gospel regeneration. By
gospel regeneration, mean PRECISELY what you yourself have stated, "When a
preacher preaches and God uses that in the regeneration of a sinner...it is NOT
the word of the preacher that regenerates...it is God's creative word spoken
into the heart by the Holy Spirit."
So,
your position is still, WITHOUT the preacher and his preaching, God is without
the necessary means to execute his work of regeneration! Without the preacher
and his preaching, the Holy Spirit is without the magical means or catalyst to
stimulate him to speak God's creative word into the heart!
Don't you see... that the Holy Spirit is dependent upon the means delivered by the preacher for His work of regeneration!
Sing
I
have listened to Paul's preaching a few times. Reminds me very much of Al
Martin, a popular RB preacher i listened to in the 80s-90s.
Sing
Michale, do remember that Hebrews was written to Jews who are believers in the Lord
Jesus Christ, who were tempted to revert back to the old covenant worship...
If you don't read and understand Hebrews through that fundamental grid, you are most likely perverting the text.
Sing
Michale@
"They were never true believers...they had never experienced
regeneration...so a person like Lydia and Cornelius and others can have these
desires Before regeneration."
====================
Have
you read Romans 3:10ff?
Reread
it again slowly. It describes man in his native state of sin and death, i.e.
UN-regenerated state!
"A
devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to
the people, and prayed to God alway.... Thy prayers and thine alms are come up
for a memorial before God... Now therefore are we all here present before God,
to hear all things that are commanded thee of God."
And
you INSIST that Cornelius was still dead in trespasses and sins DESPITE SUCH
PLAIN TESTIMONY.
Your
prejudice has blinded you. If Cornelius can give you a few kick in the but, may
be you will come to your senses!
Michael
I believe what the OLDER Baptist taught about the way faith is begot...them being
passive, dead in sins and trespasses, does believe...Believe what Sing...These
OLDER Baptist believed that people believed something unto salvation...it is
the gospel which God ordinarily begot by the preaching of the Gospel." I
agree with them...you dispute them...to the point that you do not believe that
God ordinarily begets people by the preaching of the Gospel. Quit trying to act
like you have the high road here when in fact you and the hypers are the later
ones.
Michael
As
for Hebrews 6, it is true that these are Jewish professors...but what applies
to them applies to all...maybe you think we gentiles shouldn't be reading
Hebrews...after all..it is for the Hebrews...right?
Sing
Concerning
Heb 6, the point to note is that since it was written to Jews who were children
of God... those already saved by the free grace of God, the subject matter then
is concerning their SPIRITUAL WELL-BEING... it is not about their ETERNAL
SALVATION.
The
salvation that involves any activity of man CANNOT be the eternal SALVATION
that is wholly and solely by the PURE grace of God; it concerns the their
temporal salvation, i.e their spiritual well-being as God's children, and NOT
what they must do IN ORDER to become God's children.
But
so many are IGNORANT and OBLIVIOUS of this simple fact, that they apply this to
eternal salvation... and so many debate whether God's children can lose their
eternal salvation.
Sing
Morrow,
the grace of faith, as with ALL OTHER saving graces, (graces as a product of
salvation already bestowed by God's free grace) is worked in the heart by the
indwelling Spirit, given to dwell in God's children at adoption.
Preaching
draws out the grace of faith already worked in the heart by the Holy Spirit...
and the grace of faith manifest itself in the believing act of God's children.
The
SALVATION by God's grace that ENABLES believing is DISTINCT from the salvation
that God's children will experience from his believing the truth concerning his
eternal salvation by God's free grace.
