#eternalsalvation
#temporalsalvation
Eternal
salvation is freely applied to each elect personally when they are still in
their native state of sin and death:
Ephesians
2:1
And
you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Colossians
2:13
And
you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he
quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses.
Temporal
salvation is conditionally offered to those whom God has freely saved with
eternal salvation:
Mar
16:16
He
that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall
be damned.
Acts
2
21
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord
shall be saved.
40
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves
from this untoward generation.
1Timothy
4:16
Take
heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this
thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
Eternal
salvation is monergistic: freely and sovereignly purposed by God, accomplished
by Jesus Christ, and applied by the Spirit without any cooperation from the
elect, who are by nature dead in trespasses and sins.
Once
freely and sovereignly bestowed with eternal salvation, God holds His children
responsible for working out their own salvation with fear and trembling through
their obedience to their Father's will.
Blessed
are you if you have understood these things; many theologians don't have a
clue!
Fred
“But
blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. For verily I
say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those
things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye
hear, and have not heard them.”
Matthew 13:16-17 KJV
Lloyd
Some
temporal salvations are conditionally offered to the children of God. Some are
not. If you are unconscious, floating in the lake and I reach down and save you
from drowning, that is a temporal salvation not conditionally offered to the
children of God.
Sing
Lloyd: "... unconscious, floating in the lake..." sounds like a dead
decomposing man to me.
Thank
you for saving me anyway.
Lloyd
Unconscious,
not dead.
Low
Lloyd: if he is only unconscious and capable of floating he can surely save himself
when he regains consciousness.. I don't see someone capable of floating being
seen as drowning at the same time.. sounds oxymoron to me
Dan
Brother
Lloyd raises a good point, one that is not often discussed on the topic of
temporal salvation, namely the truth that some, but not all, TEMPORAL
salvations are likewise monergistic acts of God. I would not describe them as
"temporally offered" unless one was using "offer" in the
sense of "declared for one's information" rather than "presented
for one's rejection or denial thereof" - but this is admittedly a bit of a
quibble.
Leaving
that observation aside to state the matter more clearly: We shall all be temporally
saved from another worldwide flood. That doesn't deliver anyone to eternal
glory, but it does deliver us from that particular, temporal calamity. This
deliverance is the result of an unconditional promise of God, that requires
absolutely nothing of man whatsoever. Nevertheless, many temporal salvations in
the scriptures are contingent upon the willing and active obedience of a child
of God, and this aspect of temporal salvation is often the most emphasized as
it provides the greatest contrast with monergistic eternal salvation and thus
has the greatest explanatory benefit.
Donna
Lloyd:
well, sir if u are unconscious, you are not able to do anything to help
yourself, either.
Lloyd
Low: ah, yes, you raise a good point. By my not being precise and detailed
with my example, it led to confusion and a misunderstanding on your part. Much
like using a general term like temporal salvation, which can mean many things.
If on the other hand, I had said that 2 boats had an accident. The man in one
boat hit his head and was knocked unconscious before he fell face down in the
water. The man in the second boat, thinking quickly, reached down and pulled
the unconscious man out of the water before he could sink, saving his life. If
he had not done so, the unconscious man, who was briefly floating face down,
would have soon gone under and drowned. When describing temporal salvation, you
must be precise in your meaning. There are an almost infinite number of temporal
salvation types.
Sing
Brother
Dan, I read your helpful exchanges with Brother Lloyd on the appropriateness of
terminology in describing non-eternal salvation.
Greg
Lloyd:
brother in the case you mention a condition was met, not on the part of the
unconscious but on the part of the conscious having a heart for his helpless
fellow man, which isn’t always the case.
Lloyd
Greg, usually when we talk about salvation, conditional and unconditional is from the
perspective of the saved (recipient of the salvation). From the perspective of
the one doing the saving, it is always conditional. Even with God and eternal
salvation. Unconditional for us, conditional for God. In other words, eternal
salvation is conditional on God choosing us, Jesus dying for us, the Holy
Spirit regenerating us or giving us that spiritual/eternal life. There are no
conditions on us, but there are on God. God put those conditions on himself.
After you are born again by the Spirit,
you are able to believe that Jesus is God’s son and that He is the way, the
truth, and the life. When you believe, you are saving yourself from a life of
ignorance of the truth, you are saving yourself from a life that ultimately
does not satisfy, you are saving yourself from a life where comfort, peace, and
joy are fleeting not lasting, and you are saving yourself from many other
things that come from a life without knowing who Jesus really is. I would
rather give God’s little children that assurance rather than telling them: that if
you believe in Jesus you can experience conditional time salvation. Oh, joy.
Greg
Lloyd
amen brother, I was just poking at you, but I’m glad I did, I enjoyed the
response.
I
do think Bro. Sing was talking about walking in Jesus' teachings, being obedient
and receiving promises made to those of God's children who walk in meekness
before the Lord.
Maybe
conditional time salvation is confusing to some but it seems simple to me “save
yourselves from untoward generation “ it is something given to God's children to
do, good works that God has foreordained that we should walk in them, to his
honour and glory and to our benefit even in suffering for his name's sake.
Rayburn
Concur,
the truth is the truth
Dan
Very
clearly stated. It is certainly true that many if not most theologians seem to
stumble over the distinction between monergistic eternal salvation by Christ's
willing obedience and synergistic temporal salvation by our willing obedience
to His precepts.
Sing
Dan: "synergistic temporal salvation by our willing obedience to His
precepts"
-
the salvation under consideration involves the spiritual well-being of God's
children.
-
the salvation under consideration requires the willing obedience of God's
children.
-
this helps to reduce confusion.
I
use the distinction of our BEING and WELLBEING as God's children to illustrate
the distinction between eternal and temporal salvation.
Dan
Sing-
So you use them in this way....
BEING
(eternal salvation) - in reference to our state of eternal grace conferred upon
us by God alone.
WELLBEING
(temporal salvation) - in reference to our subsequent state of obedience in
discipleship.
Is
that the distinction you make?
Sing
Yes.
Our being as God's children is wholly monergistic; our well-being as His
children is synergistic.
Dan
Sing
- makes sense to me. Might have to steal that from you, brother Sing.
Kay
I
have never understood that subject.
Dan
Kay:
- I suspect that's because many ministers make it more complicated than it is.
1.
Salvation to heaven is done by God alone.
2.
Salvation from this untoward generation is done by God's promised enablement
(the indwelling Holy Spirit, 1 Corinthians 10:13) and our willing and active
obedience to the precepts of God (Isaiah 1:19).
We
experience this in our everyday lives. We know God has saved us by his grace
(Romans 8:16). We likewise know that when we sin, we do so in rebellion to what
God has taught us and we deserve the temporal consequences that accompany our
disobedience and God's chastisement thereof (Hebrews 12).
I
understand your struggle with the subject and believe it is pretty common among
the Lord's sheep. But striving for a better understanding of the matter is a
worthy and profitable pursuit. I honour the admission that you have never
understood the subject. In my own life, similar admissions have often been a
requirement for gaining a better understanding later on.
Donna
Kay: Each time when u read the word save or saved in the BIBLE,do u apply it to
eternal salvation,?
Kay
Donna:
if it meant for eternal.
Donna
Kay:
not every time you read saved or saved it does not mean to heaven.
Kay
I
get the eternal salvation. The temporal, is that like our obedience saves us
from consequences?
Sing
Kay:
Yes, our obedience saves us from consequences in this life, i.e. temporal.
Christ has saved us from the lake of fire, i.e. eternal salvation.
Lloyd
I
appreciate this discussion brothers and sisters. Iron sharpens iron. God gives
different gifts to His children to use in service and ministry in His kingdom.
Let us all seek His wisdom in knowing and using ours to His glory. Different
children learn and memorize in different ways. Let us all recognize that and
seek the best way to share God’s truth.
Marty
I
embrace the teaching of conditional "temporal salvation" or
"time salvation". But it should be understood that God is the same in
eternity and in time. Here is the viewpoint that helps me to understand God's
unchanging nature in this:
God
is a perfect parent. His love for his children, and the relationship he puts in
place by grace, are everlasting. They will never be separated from him, and any
human he loves will arrive safely in glory to dwell in his presence forever.
God
is a perfect parent. He chastises his own children for their disobedience, and
rewards them for their obedience. His fellowship with any of his children is
conditioned on their thoughts, words, and deeds.
Therefore,
"temporal" or "time" salvation occurs only in time, because
his children will not disobey him any more when they are in heaven. The
unchanging God is a perfect parent to his children.
Lloyd
Marty:
I also agree with the fact that there are temporal or time salvations that are
dependent on some conditions that man must fulfill. I don’t disagree with that
concept from a theological perspective. But I don’t like the emphasis that is
placed on the theological terminology that can be confusing to the folks in the
pews. I prefer to encourage and comfort them with specific examples such as if
you believe in Jesus … or if you obey Jesus … there is a salvation … in doing
so. As a pastor, I have found that using these theological terms like
conditional time salvation can be confusing and/or not applicable to their
daily lives. And there may be a reason that our Lord and his apostles chose to
use “save” “saved” or “salvation” without qualification in the inspired word.
Salvation in scripture whether eternal or temporal in this world is a gift from
God by his grace alone OR enabled by his grace with us following his
commandments. I prefer that instruction for His little children. Otherwise, why
would he have not instructed us differently.
Marty
Yes, the closer we can stay to scriptural language, the better for us and for those who hear us. And although the apostles did not qualify the use of the words about salvation the same way as modern theologians, the context of their words about salvation served to qualify them well.
When
a child of God encounters the word "save" or "salvation" in
the Bible, it does help to ask: "saved from what?" and "saved
unto what" and "saved by meeting what conditions?" If the answer
to these questions - especially the third one - is different than the answer in
another text, then two different kinds of salvation, or aspects of salvation,
are under consideration.
