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| "Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week." Mark 16:9 Sat 6pm-Sun 6am is the first night of the week; Sun 6am-Sun 6pm is the first day of the week. "early the first day of the week" is after Sun at 6am. |
Mark
15
42 ¶ And now when the even was come, because
it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
43 Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable
counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly
unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.44 And Pilate marvelled if he were already
dead: and calling unto him the centurion, he asked him whether he had been any
while dead.
45 And when he knew it of the centurion, he
gave the body to Joseph.
Pilate
and the centurion will testify against the liars who said Jesus didn't die but
only passed out... and thus did not rise again!
PJ
Blood
and water came out of His side. This means, according to a medical professor,
He had been dead for at least 30 minutes. Besides that, Roman soldiers were so
acquainted with death that their methods of determining one's death were
foolproof.
Charles
The
crucifixion had to be finished before sundown to meet Jewish obligations. He
died before the other two.
PJ
He
also had to die before sundown in order to be put in the grave at sundown so
that the three days and three nights would be fulfilled and that Joseph would
not be breaking the Sabbath on that Wednesday evening.
Charles
Wednesday?
PJ
Yes,
the day after that Wednesday was a Sabbath. The day after that Sabbath was
Friday, and then there was the weekly sabbath on the last day of the week. Christ
arose at evening on the Saturday.
Charles
oh
kay!... taking steps backwards - don't want to enter this room!
Charles
To
be honest I am staying home today from any kirsche activities including
protesting. This easter mess is perplexing. I am watching Public Broadcasting's
version of Christianity. This is my Ea***r celebration! Christ has risen I am
certain either yesterday or today, I am certain!
Sing
Those
who insist on the exact 72 hrs of 3 12hrs nights and 3 12hrs days MUST have
this arrangement:
Their
72 hrs 3 12hr-NIGHTS and 3 12hr-DAYS sequence is like this:
Christ
was buried shortly before Wed 6pm
Tues
6pm - Wed 6am --- eating Passover meal... prayer at the mount... arrest
Wed
6am - Wed 6pm --- kangaroo trial, crucifixion, and burial before 6pm...
(Why
were they rushing to have Christ buried?)
Wed
6pm - Thu 6am night --- 1st evening/night
Thu
6am - Thu 6pm day ---- 1st morning/day
Thu
6pm - Fri 6am night ---- annual sabbath evening/night
Fri
6am - Fri 6pm day ---- annual sabbath morning/day
Fri
6pm - Fri 6am night ---- weekly sabbath evening/night
Sat
6am - Sat 6pm day. ---- weekly sabbath morning/day
That
means Christ rose shortly after Sat 6pm., the first night of the new week
Therefore
they believe that Christ was risen early the first evening of the week!
BUT
Scriptures say this:
Mark
16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week.
It
doesn't say the first EVENING of the week.
Early
the first evening of the week is shortly after Sat 6pm.
Early
the first day of the week is shortly after Sunday 6am.
The
day before the annual sabbath day was the Passover.
The
day after the Passover is the annual high sabbath.
The
day after the annual high sabbath is the weekly Sabbath!
But
the 72hrs 3 12hr-days and 3 12hr-nights scheme has inserted an extra day
between the Passover and the Annual High Sabbath - as indicated above. That's
what happens when men 'out-literal' the Scriptures!
Inserting
one extra day is no worse than inserting thousands of years between the 69th
week and the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy!
Charles
I
heard Jimmy Swagart talk about this years ago!
Sing
These
four days are in consecutive order:
Passover:
Wed 6pm to Thu 6pm
Annual
high sabbath: Thu 6pm to Fri 6pm
Weekly
sabbath: Fri 6pm to Sat 6pm
First
day of the week: Sat 6pm to Sun 6pm
Mr
15:42 "And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation,
that is, the day before the sabbath..."
When
the evening 6pm was come, the Passover Day is over, and the Preparation Day
began. And this Preparation Day was the day before the weekly sabbath day.
So we have the sequence of THREE DAYS – the Passover Day, the Preparation Day (the annual Sabbath), and the weekly Sabbath day.
Sing
He
swaggers too much for my liking!
Charles
His
swagger got him in big trouble!
oh,
I shouldn't have said that!!!
Charles
Not
necessarily, if it had been the Sabbath it would have been before dusk and
surely the soldiers would relate that. It surely was on the first day of the
week and before dawn! Too much Roman security for that detail to go unnoticed!
Sing
I
am referring the the popular idea among the PBs - Jesus was buried around Wed
6pm and rose around Sat 6pm - in order to get the exact 3 12hr nights and 3
12hr days.
That
requires INSERTING an additional day into the days surrounding the death and
resurrection of Christ.
Passover
>>> high sabbath >>> ANOTHER DAY >>> weekly sabbath
>> first night of week.
---------6pm
------ 72hrs of 3 12hr nights and 3 12hr days ------ 6pm
But
it is stated plainly in Mr 15:42
"And
now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day
before the sabbath..."
THREE
DISTINCT and SEPARATE days are mentioned in this verse.
When
the evening 6pm was come, the Passover day was over, and the Preparation day
(high sabbath) began. And this preparation day was the day before the weekly
sabbath day.
So
we have the sequence of THREE CONSECUTIVE DAYS:
- the Passover Day, (Wed 6pm - Thu 6pm
- the
Preparation Day (the annual sabbath) (Thu 6pm - Fri 6pm)
- the weekly sabbath day. (Fri 6pm - Sat 6pm)
- the first day of the week (Sat 6pm-Sun 6am night, Sun 6am-6pm day)
These
four days are in consecutive order:
Passover:
Wed 6pm to Thu 6pm
Annual
high sabbath: Thu 6pm to Fri 6pm
Weekly
sabbath: Fri 6pm to Sat 6pm
First
day of the week: Sat 6pm to Sun 6pm
That
position requires the INSERTION of an extra day between the high sabbath and
the regular weekly sabbath - to have the 3 12hr nights and 3 12hr days between
Wed 6pm and Sat 6pm.
But Mark 15:42 "And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath..."
Johnny
He
WAS risen. He IS risen. He WILL ALWAYS be risen. He was in the tomb three days
(your guess is as good as mine, whether three noons passed, the period was 72
hours, WHATEVER - it was "three days.". That is perhaps the
"biggest deal," of all humanity, perhaps second only to creation.
Which three days is "no big deal." Especially, considering the
true-heart motivation behind proving or disproving something.
Charles
Why
does it have to be 72 hrs?
Sing
Why?
They who insist such are just arbitrary and double standard!
Words
like that are hardly understood in such a wooden literal exact manner in their
daily life!
Do
they ever use words in such a way in their daily life?
If
it had been 66 hrs, would that have been just as truly '3d3n'?
Johnny
Good
point, Sing. Now, IF we knew the Roman calendar we use today, was reconciled to
the hour, of whatever calender was used at the time Jesus made the prophesy
(which would have to be proven without any scientific doubt, to me, before it
would matter to me, what "3 days" actually means), and removing all
other bias, for a strickly scientific analysis, perhaps it would be a
significant endeavor. I think, though (sorry, I'm thinking, and not judging
intent), the whole question, was originally, and carried down (perhaps
sub-consciously), from a rejection of Catholicism. If true, then there's
another reason I say, it matters not. Jesus prophesied, 3 days. He rose after
three days. All in scripture. That's all I care about. It's ok, debaters on
this issue. It's ok, to accept truth, without PROVING it. That's what faith is
all about.
Charles
so
can I accept that it was 40 hours and that be OK?
Sing
Johnny
@ "Jesus prophesied, 3 days. He rose after three days."
++++++++
Is that '3 days' to be understood as not less than 72 hrs as many want to insist?
Sing
Charles: so
can I accept that it was 40 hours and that be OK?
========
Charles,
given 3d 3n, I believe it is understood that the term MUST include at least one
of them... whether day or night, to be 3 full 12 hrs.
For
example: ddd nnnnnn dddddd nnnnnn dddddd nnnnnn d
So
we have 3 full nights, 2 full days, plus bits of day at both end!
The
above most certainly qualifies for 3 days and 3 nights... even though it is
technically less than 72hrs. 40 hrs would be far too little to qualify for 3d
3n!
Charles
u
stuttering???
Johnny
I
"accept" the scripture, and prayerfully beyond having to prove that
which can simply be accepted. What I would be interested in understanding, is
WHY three days is significant (if it is). I suspect there is a reason why, as I
have yet to find anything arbitrary in God's word. There is ALWAYS a reason.
Sing
My
interest is that Christ's words are true.
Those who said Christ was buried on Wednesday evening and rose shortly after 6pm, and the Bad Fridayers make Christ to be a liar!
Johnny
My
point is that our human efforts do not matter in determining which day, to
"prove" the truth. Enjoyable perhaps as a human exercise, and of about as
much merit as running a race from physical exercise, but that's about all that
matters. Especially when exercising criticism of other human efforts. Christ is
not a liar, God cannot lie, and no one, most likely, is attempting to prove that
they are not telling the truth when they said in their Word "three
days."
Sing
No, the truth need not be proven. Even if no one cares, the truth remains the truth.
But
I care... I want to know the truth. I want to know the truth... and know to my
best ability what Christ has said... and its most likely meaning.
Whatever
you do believe, it will not alter the truth the slightest bit. That I agree
with you.
But
I do want to know the truth.
But
Christ did say...
John
8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Johnny
Good
reasoning, Sing. That is why we have the liberty, to learn with scientific
assurance, what we consider important, and to accept on faith most may be MOST
important, and even of minimal importance. I suspect with your training and
heart, on this subject, that what you find, may just match the exact truth. But
there is always the probability, that, an occurrence over 2,000 years ago,
given not only the time, but records based on man's history, what we conclude,
will have some element of incomplete truth. For me, though I appreciate analysis,
it is simply "no big deal," yet am glad it is to some.
Sing
It
is a big deal to me if my belief gives reasonable occasion for someone to
slander Jesus as a liar! That is no big deal to many.
