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| Sirs, what must I do to be saved? |
April 11, 2012
The
Philippians Jailor - Acts 16
30
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and
thy house.
32
And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his
house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their
stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
Q1.
What does the jailor want to be saved from?
Q2.
Is Paul addressing the same salvation that the jailor inquired earnestly?
Q3.
How shall the jailor's believing in Christ save him and his house?
Q4.
Who is the jailor's house?
Q5.
When the jailor asked for a light, who brought it to him - his wife? his daughter?
his subordinate?
Q6.
Is Paul's reply declaring a salvation by proxy, i.e. the jailor act of
believing shall save him AS WELL AS his house?
Q7.
What is the salvation that is by proxy here?
If
you can keep to the subject, I covet your comments. Thanks.
==========
Comments
Johnny
Davis
1.
Initially, saved from those above him. Paul turned on the term,
"saved" to spiritual salvation.
2. Yes, in the same way that Paul
spoke of the idol to the unkown god, being THE God. He had a way of doing that.
3. Yes. For by his belief, his household, of which he was head, also came to
believe.
4. Have not studied this. I am assuming his family, though there may
be more that one family in residence.
5. No, it is the words of the jailor to
the others, the "hearing" that they came to believe, and become
baptized ultimately.
6. I've never thought of salvation by proxy, except that
Jesus voted for us, on the cross. We did not suffer the agony of death,
spiritual and physical, becuase he was our proxy.
Sing
F Lau
Thank
you for doing better this time... i.e. responding to the specific questions
asked.
A1.
What do you mean by spiritual salvation? Eternal salvation?
A2.
Your answer is gibberish to me.
A3.
Apostle Paul said the jailor's believing would save NOT only him but also his house.
Explain that... not something else. One man's believing will save him and
others... What salvation is the talking about?
A4.
I like honest answers... not imaginative ones.
A5.
What are the words of the jailor to others? Where does it say in the text? Did
he preach a sermon to others?
A6.
I suggest there is salvation by proxy... not eternal salvation, but temporal
salvation. Haven't you experienced it in life. Someone's act of obedience saves
himself and others from certain disasters?
Sing
F Lau
I
added another question:
Q5.
When the jailor asked for a light, who brought it to him - his wife? his
daughter? his subordinate?
Johnny
Davis
This
will be "philosophical," so ignore without considering if you wish,
Sing. You ask, what do I mean by physical salvation. All that is physical, man
included, is such, only by the creation and will of God. We know what a cell
is. We know laws of physics. We know that nothing in the physical remains
without change, and physical life, though a mystery, is merely physical things,
arranged to be able to move and think (in the case of humans). Everything
physical passes. It all changes. It is never the same. It all eventually dies.
The jailer was worried about his physical life, when he asked Paul, something
like this: "How can you help ME (breathing, thinking physical ME) get out
of being killed for allowing you to escape. I've got a family that needs me."
Those folks spoke common language, and not the churchy lingo of the KJV, in all
likelihood. Paul, very diplomatic and shrewd (real Philemon for a great example
of this), seized the opportunity to teach, so that the jailor could hear, and
believe (actually, he already "believed" having the receptiive heart
of godliness), to tell the gospel of Jesus, which resulted in spiritual life
forever with God, and the jailor told the same story to his family and
household (servants, perhaps), and they too believed, resulting in eternal
life. Now, how long the physical salvation from the Roman higher-ups lasted, we
don't know. I'd bet the jailer gave a shot at speaking the gospel, before he
was punished. Yet, we do know, all his family and household were ultimately
saved (and baptized), and I look forward to meeting them, in whatever condition
or reality God chooses for his sons and daughters to be.
Johnny
Davis
As
to the "light," let me read the scripture. Don't recall and have not
thought of that one.
Charles
Page
interesting,
Sing, Paul referenced proxy baptism for the dead, salvation for the unbelieving
spouse.
I
am inclined to think that salvation that is referenced here in Acts 16 (10 as
well) is not conceived in westernized individualistic terms but family/group
units. Belonging is probably more central than believing.
Just
thinking out loud by way of weird opinions!!!
Johnny
Davis
Good
thought, Charles, and in the culture of that day, the household probably went
along with the man or head of the house, in everything. I suspect, though, that
was done, in the Jewish culture, not out of fear, though that element may have
been present. The hearts of the household would have to be receptive to God,
for their conversion to have meaning, regardless if baptized or not, for
example. As they were "saved" then that must have been their
situation, not "obeying" the head, as the Muslim culture now
requires, but from love.
Sing
F Lau
Charles,
when did you imbibe mormonistic idea of baptism for the dead?
Take
a look here:
http://letgodbetrue.com/questions/baptism-for-dead.htm.
What
is the Baptism for the Dead?
Sing
F Lau
Hey
look, I am an easterner. I think as an easterner, and reason as an easterner. So, where is the neutral zone we can talk some sense?
Charles
Page
Didn't
say i believe it...but that Paul referenced it in I Cor. I am not fully
convinced that the parents cannot bring an infant to the pastor for baptism and
not just dedication. There still seems to be an argument for proxy parenting
for children.
We
westerners are wierd! I know ...but my eternal salvation secured in heaven
makes me feel free to think out of the box without fear of what men may think.
I certainly would not be acting like a crazy man carrying signs in front of an
institution that will never heed my call to repent.
Sing
F Lau
I
surely like that statement: "but my eternal salvation secured in heaven
makes me feel free to think out of the box without fear of what men may
think." I feel very liberated too... which is why I am learning precious
truth because I dare question the great 'reformers'!
I believe there is salvation by proxy... in the temporal salvation. Believing parents save their children from the many evils that pervade the degenerating society now.
Charles
Page
...but,
it gets me in soooo much trouble! God wants our minds blazing and not just
smouldering!
Johnny
Davis
What
about priests, and last rites (to "cover" sins not prayed for)? The
scripture on "the dead" baptism, etc. was what? Need to study that.
Sing
F Lau
I
need no priest. Me myself and I am a member of the royal priesthood, with
Christ alone as my High Priest.
If
I hadn't believed in baptism for the dead, I would never have been baptized...
it was because I was already dead in Christ, I submitted to baptism.
Baptism
is for those who know they are dead in Christ!
Charles
Page
My
guess is that baptism for the dead was for those whose acquaintances had passed
and though they had eternal salvation they had not lived up to temporal
salvation and it was a possible measure to pray for their lives in hades they
knew about and knew they were in need of desperate measures. If you participate
in funerals you know there are people whose lives were not prepared for death.
Arminians lose all hope that they are in the "lake of fire" but
Bible-believing people know about eternal salvation and do not lose all hope
but trust in a just God who does show wrath to ungodly regenerates.
Perhaps they are pleading for mercy. We have lost this today due to the Arminian heresies that are dominant today!
