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3/26/11, 2:32 PM – Markus
Who and what is Obert Badsham?
Do you
know him on FB?
sing
THANK YOU, and to all others, most kindly for the prayers.
I don't know who he is. He commented on Charles Page’s post.
He said he is an RB in Wyoming.
Markus
He befriended me. Just trying to get a
grasp on where he is coming from. Please
befriend him and help me out! I need all
the help I can get with reformers.
PB's I know.
Reformer's I do not know. Feel at
a loss with some of them. Don't
understand their foundation.
Markus
This did not sound good at all: Obert
Badsham said,
“The effectual call is of God’s free and special grace alone, not from anything
at all foreseen in man, who is altogether passive therein, until, being
quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit, he is thereby enabled to answer this
call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it. (Westminster
Confession, X. II)
sing
Brother Markus, you are veteran enough to handle and deal with all sorts...
Just speak and give them rope enough... and see what happens! He may be drawn to
the truth... or he may hang himself high and dry. I pray for the former.
You are well acquainted with the only
foundation that matters!
Markus
He seems close on some posts and far away on others. I am not GeneDad. His understanding of the Reformed is far
deeper than mine from a lifetime of study.
I will try. But I lack the tact and
diplomacy of a real statesman. It did
not come through in the "gene pool".
3/26/11, 3:11 PM – sing
I made a mistake... it was another man who said that he was a RB in Wyoming.
His quote from WCF 10:2 has a TYPICAL
misunderstanding... basically this: the way they understand it is this: as
though effectual call enables a man to answer to effectual call... therefore
effectual call requires man to answer to it.
However, it is obvious that "he is
thereby enabled to answer this call" has to refer to the gospel call.
Para 1 spells out what effectual call is: God's work of bringing a man out of his
native state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation... man being
completely passive in that contributes NOTHING... in fact he was very actively
in enmity against God when God effectually called him.
Para 2 spells out the fact of those
effectually called who do have the GOSPEL CALL... and states the relationship
between the effectual call and the gospel call, THAT IS... the effectual call
ENABLES a man to answer the gospel call. That DOES NOT imply that every
effectually called man will respond positively to the gospel call. The fact
stated is ENABLING... nothing more.
Para 3 spells out those effectually called who do not have the gospel called...
and this paragraph EMBRACES a far wider group than the Reformed folks would
want to admit: they limit it to ONLY those who died in infancy and mentally
challenged adults. But the phrase, "SO ALSO all other elect persons, who
are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the word" most
certainly includes God's sentient children (effectually called to grace and
salvation) in remote places... they are incapable of being outwardly called by
the ministry of the word.
However, the gospel regenerationists must reject and deny this simple fact.
Para 4 tells us that WITHOUT the effectual
call of God... no amount of outward religion can save anyone, 'save' in the
same sense the effectual calling saves.
Maybe I will go to his page and stir up a
bit!
Always a troublemaker!
Markus
Stir him up, Brother; I will be there to help and learn!
He does seem closer than some. But gospel regeneration seems to be the bane
of so many. It is good to be able to
speak with you in this way. I rejoice.
3/26/11, 3:44 PM – Markus
"Effectual call requires man to answer to it." I would think this is the key issue with
some. Predestined or suffered? Would you say this is a key issue with some
reformed? I would say it is with this
fellow.
Markus
I see your post to Badsham. Excellent
questions! Appreciate your help!
3/26/11, 4:14 PM – sing
"effectual call requires man to answer to it" - that idea has already
been completely repudiated in para 1.
A man in the state of sin and death is simply
completely passive in his effectual call to grace and salvation.
The effectual call is already COMPLETED when he is enabled to answer...
therefore that which he is enabled to answer cannot possibly be the effectual
call.
Effectual call needs no man's answer to make it effectual!
It is gospel call needs man's answer/response to make it (i.e. the gospel call)
effectual for the purpose it was ordained.
It is in the gospel call that the framers say "grace is offered and conveyed" - this is obviously different from the grace and salvation bestowed freely (in contrast to 'offered') in the effectual call!
But their addiction to and obsession with gospel regeneration blind them to this simple truth.
Markus
Very fine logic and doctrine. The profound simplicity of Scripture.
3/26/11, 4:33 PM - sing
Truth be told, Gene-dad taught me so much in
asking questions... which was so useful for my own education, and learning from
others, and ascertaining what others actually believe. I am so thankful for
your fellowship.
Markus
I was raised on questions! Daily diet.
He says: Socratic method of learning.
I say, "makes me dig, dig, dig for answers!" You are my special Brother. I rejoice that God blesses us to know each
other and share in common Biblical faith.
Your fellowship is a special gift from the other side of the world. No words.
3/26/11, 4:56 PM - Markus
I usually see the doctrinal points, but the
logical points are often lost on me until they're stuck in my face and made
obvious. I just have next to no
experience in oppositional points of view.
This is my weakness.
3/26/11, 8:55 PM - sing
Thou art a thoroughbred... and that's your
great blessing.
I was picked up from the dung hill... and the
Lord blessed the PBs folks to detox me!
5/20/11, 12:47 AM - Markus
I added you to Bro. Dan's "Be Ready
Always" group. It is a very unusual
group. Some Philippine PB's, some
Philippine PB's in Qatar, some charismatics and pentecostals, some rank
arminians, some calvinistic reformed types.
Brother Dan seeks to reach out to these and form a fellowship group in
Qatar and for those in the Philippines to send them toward PB churches and
fellowships. He expects us to be kind
instead of harsh, to speak the truth in love, but to confront error with
scripture. If this is of interest to
you, please lend a hand as you have time.
If not, the "leave group" door will free you from all
connections to the group. Love you, Brother!
4/6/12, 12:49 AM - Markus
Unlike most of my PB brethren, I have never
believed the 'lake of fire' in Rev. is eternal hell. If pushed to define it, I would think it is a
symbol of what Jerusalem became at the time of its destruction. I do not wish to discuss this openly on
Facebook, but would not mind having a private discussion about it.
5/1/12, 10:00 AM - sing
Hello Brother Markus!
It is Tuesday, 10 a.m. here in Penang.
I hope all are well with you and Annie-Mama.
I wish to inquire about a matter, and I
thought you might be the best person to ask.
From my observation, it seems that Brother Trucker
has been shunned by many among the regular PBs. What is the real reason? I
would be pleased to hear from you.
Is it doctrinal, or some other personal
issues among the PBs
Markus
Hi Brother Sing! My main problem with Br. Trucker is that he
continues to support, fellowship and evangelize with folks like L. Badley, Guesses, and Batfield. Their doctrinal
errors have been exposed time and again.
I would call it doctrinal, but I am sure there are those that would say
my stand against them is strictly personal.
Last post I saw of Trucker's - he was in Asia
somewhere passing out handouts by Piper.
sing
Ya, I've noted that worrying trend too. He is
drifting away from PB authors!
Quoting from them quite freely!
What common doctrinal errors do the Badley, Guesses
and Batfield have?
Markus
It was disturbing to me to read that. I
would not throw out a person for not using PB authors, but it is troublesome, and that, coupled with his associates, is enough for me to leave him alone.
Badley teaches that time salvation is the equivalent
of regeneration. He makes no other
distinction between eternal and time salvation anymore. Guesses does the same. Batfield believes that all the elect will
hear the true gospel and is a decided Absoluter.
You experienced Batfield for yourself on
Pound's list. You most likely saw the
exchanges between Guesses and myself on FGFGF.
I will leave it with you as to whether I am just against them personally
or if I have a legitimate doctrinal complaint.
Guesses made the statement that 'your time
salvation is just your eternal salvation here and now'. I ain't swallowing that, and won't.
They are distinct. Not equivalent.
sing
Sorry, I was summoned by wifey to turn a lump of dough into spaghetti for
her... expecting someone coming to talk DOCTRINE... so she feeds the stomach
while I the mind.
Markus
Hope it is a good, productive visit.
sing
Yes, I am acquainted, and remember all those
things now that jolt my memory.
Markus
Many sound brethren simply will not use them
or visit among them. Some tolerate
them. Some of us confront them and try
to show the errors. I am in hopes that
someday a written document will come out that speaks simply to doctrinal errors
that all sound PB's will rally behind.
By the way, is there anything that I can do in regard to MatOng? I doubt there is, but willing to help if I can.
sing
I am raising this issue because of a practical
matter. I was inquiring about KJ pew Bibles for a new work taking shape in
Indonesia... and he offered used, good-condition KJ pew bibles. I have accepted
them... I don't know if that's right or not. I don't want to give the impression
that I approve his ways and errors.
Markus
I think it is fine to accept them.
Best labour they will have made in recent
memory in my little opinion.
May the Lord bless your labour in Indonesia!
9/15/23, 12:55 PM - Markus
Your post, which begins with Romans 8, is an
exceptionally good one! It makes my
heart rejoice. I hesitate to say more, but it is so good I feel I should. In a
few places it would benefit from a bit of English language polish: Verb tense
choices; subject verb agreement; word choices. These are difficult for me, and I
have no doubt they would be difficult for those for whom English is not their
native language. I have great respect for your careful study of English, and I
admire how well you do with it, but this writing of yours is so excellent in
logic, theology and Biblical truth that it should be as accurate in English as
it is in your own language. I suggest this:
seek out the help of a mutual friend to review the writing and suggest
grammar changes. Send it to Sister Julie Snyder and ask her to help polish the
language. If it helps to know, Gene sought out her help several times and he
was an English major in college. I’m convinced that this writing is as powerful
as I have ever read on the subject you have addressed. I simply desire to see
it have the most impact possible for those who read it in English. I remain, a
little brother, Markus
9/15/23, 1:21 PM – sing
Dear Brother Markus,
I truly appreciate your kind words, and
excellent suggestions. I will do so. Gene Dad has been a tower of strength to
me when I was wrestling with the RBs...
GeneDad proofread the Pruning book.
Markus
I’m thankful for your insights and your
ability to make them so plain and clear. The Lord bless your labours is my
prayer.
Sister Snyder is a professional editor. She
is as good a help as one could hope for among mortals dealing with English. 🙂
Sister Snyder and your Wifey - are very special people. When I first got to know the Primitive Baptists, soon after I received a gift from them - a massive Strong's Concordance and Noah Webster American Dictionary of the English Language. They have endeared themselves to my heart as precious Sisters - they knew what a little brother needed to be a student of God's word.
Markus
I’m of course quite biased in my opinions,
but I find our PB Sisters to be
exceptionally kind and wise. And in Wifey’s case, exceptionally direct in
communicating her feelings (right or wrong ). 😉
I find the directness refreshing so we
communicate well. It may put others off, but it works well for us
