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| "Once saved" by whom and by what means? "Once saved" - what salvation is under consideration? Have you asked these simple questions? |
15/01/2021, 15:43]
Sing
Brethren,
Esther Chiah said, "Me too, I don't
believe that 'once saved, forever saved'.
I don't stand on either Calvinism or Arminian; I only believe in what
the Bible says...."
I hope you have at least read the exchanges between Esther and Alice. If you haven't, it betrays one sad thing: lack of interest in knowing or ministering to visitors.
Esther made an interesting statement on "once saved, forever saved."
An Arminian curses this as a damnable heresy; a Calvinist glories in it.
How will you, who is neither an Arminian nor a Calvinist, assist someone to understand the word of God more perfectly who opines "once saved, forever saved"?
Are you skilled enough to minister to others? Aquila and Priscilla - the tentmaker couple, instructed by the Apostle Paul - were skilled enough to assist the theologian Apollos.
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Let's discuss.
Sunny
1. Does she know eternal salvation of God vs
conversion?
2. The Armenians condemn once saved forever saved as they claim God keeps on adding names in the Lamb's book of life. Most of them are of the opinion that people are saved on earth through the hearing of the Gospel only and not eternally- given life waiting for regeneration or conversion. Because of such a lack of belief, God's chosen saints are bequeathed eternal salvation.
3. However, Calvinists, on the other hand, believe in the election of saints.. ..everyone would be found in heaven at the end time. Those not found or gathered at the end time are spurious and unbelievers.
4. The Calvinists believe the truly elect will not lose their salvation on the ground once saved forever saved. However, there is a mega church where the main Pastor preached once saved forever saved. No matter how one saint lives temporally.
5. Our belief is grounded as our bible
stipulated:
a. Eternal salvation
b. Legal salvation by our eldest brother
c. Vital calling or conversion at the proper
time.
d. Temporal salvation
e. Glorification at the great judgment day.
Yes, we must be clear we are eternally saved
n our names in the Lamb's book of life. But we must be converted daily in our
lives as working out our salvation with
fear and trembling. We must have faith in God that His salvation is
efficacious. But we must qualify our faith in Christ with good works. Yes,
Esther stated her notion as once saved forever. But we have to listen n get to
know her better why she couldn't stand either Arminianism or calvinistic beliefs.
Maybe she has discovered more from our bible we could have overlooked.
Just my opinion...and understanding. However, to be corrected from our Bible, so I will have more complete knowledge of knowing our Lord 🙏🙏🙏
Sing
1. Does she know eternal salvation of God vs
conversion?
I think you meant to ask this: Does she know
the distinction between eternal and temporal salvation?
Eternal salvation and temporal salvation form a contrasting couplet just as regeneration and conversion do likewise.)
I'm not sure; probably not. Few do. We need
to find out.
It would be great if our people are skilled
to assist those who would bring up the issue of "once saved, forever
saved" - whether they are for or against it. We want to be
Aquila and Priscilla to show them the way of God more perfectly. Acts
18:26. But just be aware that those with the teachable spirit of Apollos are
uncommon.
An excellent way to find out is to ask them innocent questions so that we understand what they do, and don't believe about the matter. Asking apt questions will also inevitably expose their inconsistencies and contradictions; this will then will the opportunity to show them the truth.
"Once saved, forever saved" is both true and false at the same time but in a distinct and different sense.
Only those who know and understand the
distinction between eternal salvation by grace alone and temporal salvation
conditioned upon the obedience of God's children can adequately explain the
matter.
What useful questions can we ask to assist
them to understand the issue rightly?
As indicated by Brother Eng Sun, both the
Arminians as well as the Calvinists are quite confused on the matter because
they don't see the distinction between the eternal and the temporal salvation.
Sing
2. The Arminians (followers of the teaching
of Jacobus Arminius; Armenians are the people of Armenia) condemn "once
saved forever saved" because they do indeed read in the Scriptures that
they must work out their own salvation...
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Esther aptly quoted Phi 2:12 to prove her point. There are many passages that speak of the active role of believers for them to be saved, and stay saved. So, from their perspective, "once saved, forever saved" is plainly contradicting the Bible.
We know where the problem lies: the salvation
spoken of in those passages that involve the ONGOING activities of men is only
temporal salvation; they understand them as speaking of eternal salvation. In their understanding, their eternal destiny
hinged upon their activities to be saved, and stay saved!
To some haughty, stiff-necked ones, I have
said sweetly, "I wish you the best of luck, I sincerely hope you will do
well enough to enter heaven." Elijah did use sarcasm; Apostle Paul, too.
To others, we want to patiently and graciously help them to see the distinction between eternal salvation by the sovereign activities of the Triune God ALONE in our eternal salvation, which make it possible for His children (i.e. the elect that are already effectually called) to obey/do the will of their Father to save themselves with temporal salvation.
O the joy and comfort and assurance of
salvation in knowing the distinction.
Let us lead others into this joy, comfort,
and assurance.
How can a man honestly has assurance if his eternal salvation is indeed conditioned upon his activities in whatsoever way???
Sunny
Correct! Arminians instead of Armenians, the
people. Bro Jonathan in his bible study before on comparison of Arminians,
Calvinists and Bible-believing Christians mentioned to beware of the word
Arminians and Armenians. Sorry
Pastor, thank you for your simple but yet complete understanding of the difference. It is indeed a précis...instead of being wordy.
I learned one important lesson from here. Practice makes perfect, simply doing it better each time. Put them in writing even better each time. May our Lord bless our conscientious effort as a local church!
