What do you think of the first sentence below?
It's the opening paragraph of the answer to the question, "Was Solomon saved?"
https://www.gotquestions.org/was-Solomon-saved.html
Was
Solomon saved?
ANSWER
Of
course, Solomon lived in the Old Testament dispensation and thus did not
experience being “born again” or the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, for that
was not possible before the Christ’s ascension and the birth of the church (see
John 16:7). The terms born again and saved (in the sense of eternal salvation)
are New Testament terms. That kind of language is not used of Old Testament
saints. So, when we speak of Solomon’s being “saved,” we are simply referring
to his justification before God and his presence in heaven today."
==============
Ray
2
Samuel 12:24 KJV — And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto
her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and
the LORD loved him.
Romans
8:38-39 KJV — For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor
principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height,
nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love
of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Joseph
How
could he be justified before God and in heaven in soul and spirit if said soul
and spirit haven't been cleansed and glorified? It seems to me that the only
means that God's word gives by which the soul/ spirit substance is cleansed is
by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost. Folks who deny
the new birth occurring to OT saints have the burden of answering this vital
question.
Danny
SFL:
What do you think of the first sentence below?
DS:
I hate it.
SFL:
It's the opening paragraph of the answer to the question, "Was Solomon
saved?"
DS:
In my experience gotquestions.org is better at capturing questions than it is
at providing answers. That’s not to say they’re always wrong. There are many
good answers on that site, but there are also some pretty sour notes that are
inconsistent with the bible’s teaching of salvation by sovereign grace. Let’s
look a little more closely at that first sentence you mention:
GOT
QUESTIONS: Of course, Solomon lived in the Old Testament dispensation
DS:
True.
GOT
QUESTIONS: and thus did not experience being “born again” or the indwelling of
the Holy Spirit,
DS:
False.
GOT
QUESTIONS: for that was not possible before the Christ’s ascension and the
birth of the church (see John 16:7).
DS:
False. While the teaching that “no one was born again until the New Testament
era” is very common, it is also demonstrably false. In brief, a few
observations are helpful in dispelling this myth:
1.
Faith is a fruit of the indwelling Holy Spirit of God (Galatians 5:22). It
follows that apart from regeneration, man does not have faith (II Thessalonians
3:2). The OT saints had faith and obtained a good report by the exercise
thereof (Hebrews 11). It follows that the OT saints were born again.
2.
The OT explicitly affirms the indwelling Holy Spirit. “And the LORD said unto
Moses, Take thee Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay
thine hand upon him;” (Numbers 27:18)
3.
The Apostle Peter explicitly tells us that the events of Pentecost were the fulfillment
of Joel 2:28-32, not the advent of regeneration.
DS:
For more of my thinking on this matter, you might find this sermon helpful
Joel’s
Prophecy and Acts 2
https://www.sermonaudio.com/.../harm.../sermons/37171333242/
Danny
I
was so appalled by the suggestion of "no regeneration in the OT" that
I completely forgot to address Solomon's salvation. I wrote a brief article on
that years ago:
Was
Solomon a child of God?
https://theearstohear.blogspot.com/.../was-solomon-child...
The simple answer is yes, indisputably so. The suggestion by a Lordship Salvation Calvinist minister at the church I previously attended that "We can't be certain that Solomon was a child of God" as an ersatz "answer" to why Solomon did not exhibit the "inevitable" progressive sanctification and total commitment was instrumental in my conversion to becoming a PB.
Sing
Danny, I was so APPALLED too!
Micah
Sing, I know an elder who debated someone over the subject once. Trying to
remember if I have any information that he presented. If I remember right it
was a pb who was denying it too.
Griff
He
was saved exactly the same way every other saved person was and is saved. Joh
3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but
canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is
born of the Spirit.
It
was blowing in the Old Testament as in the New
Sing
Griff, Why would some believe there was no regeneration in the OT???
Could there be salvation without regeneration?
Kelvin
Sing, God’s elect children have always been regenerated the same way, through
the in dwelling of Holy Spirit. It was manifest in the person of Christ when He
came in the flesh, but it has always been the same. Christ is God just as the
Father is God just as Holy Spirit is God.
John
5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the
Son quickeneth whom he will.
Danny
Sing- As to why some would believe that none were regenerated in the OT, in
my experience it arises from a misinterpretation of Acts 2 and John 14:16, a
misunderstanding about the nature and purpose of gospel ministry, and the false
belief that all men have faith.
Obert
Danny, Failure to patiently, prayfully, rightly divide the word of God. All of us want
to master things as fast as possible; this leads to following men we perceive to
be respected by others and by association we feel superior! Ask me how I know!
Danny
Obert
- Me too, brother. So true.
Shine
Griff, Nicodemus was expected to know this as an OT Pharisee.
Danny
Shine
- That is another brilliant observation. If the concept of being "born
again" was not taught in the OT, then Jesus Christ was wrong to upbraid
Nicodemus as a "master of Israel" for not knowing it (John 3:10). The
fact that Jesus takes Nicodemus to task on this matter is proof positive that
regeneration not only took place during the OT dispensation but was also taught
in the OT scriptures.
Shine
Danny, I see the new birth in Ezekiel 16
Danny
Shine
- That’s certainly one place to go.
Troy
First
thought: Job knew that his redeemer was alive! Enoch walked with God! By faith
Abel...Abraham...etc...as recorded in Hebrews 11 believed. The love of God was
shed abroad in the hearts of the faithful saints in the days before the cross
by the same Holy Spirit that brings faith to the modern day saints. I see faith
as the gift from God to saints in all ages.
Sing
Troy
Thanks.
What
is the relationship between the gift of faith and regeneration? Is there
regeneration in the Old Testament?
Troy
Sing, Yes. God regenerated people in old testament times. Faith is given by
regeneration.
Micah
Sing, the gift of faith is equivalent to regeneration. 1corinthians 2:14 “the
natural man receiveth not the things of the spirit”
Hebrews
11:6 “without faith it’s impossible to please God”
The
evidence of regenerate men screams so strongly from Old Testament saints one
would need an agenda to deny it.
Sing
I
believe regeneration is PRIOR and DISTINCT from faith; faith is a grace worked
in a regenerated by the indwelling Spirit of adoption; faith is a fruit of the
Spirit.
Danny
Sing- This is precisely why I employ the distinction between the CAPACITY of
faith and the EXERCISE of faith. I am comfortable saying that man has the
CAPACITY of faith at the instance of regeneration. It is a vital sign, an
attribute of the spiritual life imparted. But man's active EXERCISE of that
given capacity with respect to some gospel truth he encounters in life is
ALWAYS distinct from and subsequent to regeneration.
Obert
Danny
just as we have as regenerate men the capacity for patience do we all manifest
the same measure of patience?
Danny
Obert
- Precisely. That patience observation is powerful provided we give it due
consideration.
