Please
help with this passage.
I
was asked this passage, and need help.
Thanks.
1Peter
4 KJT
6
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that
they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
-
by whom was the gospel preached?
-
when was the gospel preached?
-
to whom was the gospel preached
-
who are the dead to whom the gospel was preached?
-
those to whom the gospel was preached, were they dead when it was preached to
them?
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in what sense are they dead?
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Comments
Danny
It
might help to take in a little bit of the context…
“Forasmuch
then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with
the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of
men, but to the will of God. For the time past of our life may suffice us to
have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts,
excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: Wherein they
think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking
evil of you: Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and
the dead. For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are
dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live
according to God in the spirit. But the end of all things is at hand: be ye
therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.” (I Peter 4:1-6)
The
preceding verses speak of Christ’s sinless example that we are to follow as
opposed to following the carnal inclinations that we have previously indulged.
If you leave that sinful practice behind your friends will wonder why you’ve
changed and will revile you for it. “Oh, well aren’t you Mr. Holier-than-thou!”
Yet God will judge the quick and the dead – those currently alive and those who
have passed. The purpose of gospel preaching was so that God’s people might
live according to God in the spirit. So as it pertains to the six questions:
1.
By whom was the gospel preached?
A.
Those who went before whether NT gospel ministers such as Peter and others who
preached during the Lord’s ministry, or in the types and shadows of the OT by
the prophets who taught the precepts of righteous living and the need for
Messianic redemption in the future.
2.
When was the gospel preached?
A.
As above, by the apostles and elders in the NT era and the prophets of the OT
era.
3.
To whom was the gospel preached?
A.
To God’s people. The term “dead” does not design the “dead in trespasses and sins”
(as Gill insists) but those who have passed from this life already.
4.
Who are the dead to whom the gospel was preached?
A.
God’s people who have passed from this life. We know this because the end of
this preaching is twofold: judgment and righteous living. The gospel, whether
in OT types and shadows or its explicit NT form, judges man in that it declares
him a sinner who stands in need of redemption. Those so convicted are exhorted
to take up the reasonable service of righteous living in thanksgiving toward
and worship of the God who saved them by his grace. We know this is God’s
people, since they “live according to God in the spirit” which only regenerate
men can do.
5.
Those to whom the gospel was preached, were they dead when it was preached to
them?
A.
No. They were alive but are now dead, as opposed to the “quick” who are now
living.
6.
In what sense are they dead?
A. They
are naturally dead – passed from this life.
All that said, this passage has bred a great deal of controversy and strife among brethren over the years. I would ask that we cast a mantle of charity over all who endeavour to rightly divide it. I do not buy Gill's take on the "dead" being the dead in trespasses and sins, because this seems to imply gospel regeneration, which I regard as an occasional tendency to err on Gill's part.
Danny
This
passage requires some special handling and I have not found the time to address
it directly. I hope to in the coming days as time permits, but until then I
would simply state that MANY unstable notions have been preached on the basis
of this seemingly enigmatic statement and we should proceed with caution when
interpreting it, taking special care not to violate precepts that are clearly
stated elsewhere in scripture.
Raggy
If
you hold to the latter, then you have a problem with 1800 years of church history.
Since from the beginning of creeds, the church, for the most part, has always
held to Jesus preaching to the dead when He descended into hell.
Sing
Raggy
What's the need to preach to those already dead?
Raggy
Sing
brother. I do not know.
Raggy
I've
heard both,
1.
Jesus preached to them when He died and went to hell.
2.
Noah preached to them while they were alive and that they are referred to as
the dead because they are dead to the audience at hand.
Sing
Raggy; I read that Jesus went to paradise after death, and to heaven only after
resurrection.
Raggy
Sing
I agree.. but paradise and hell were at one time, Side by side in the centre of
the earth. After
the resurrection, paradise was taken to heaven... along with all the others who
were waiting for Jesus to rise from the dead.
Sing, no one except Enoch went to heaven until Jesus rose from the grave.
Sing
Raggy, Where did you learn these things from?
I believe Enoch was transformed and was taken to heaven.
Raggy
Sing
the Bible.
Sing
I do too.
Sing
Raggy, Which part of the Bible? Thanks.
Raggy
Sing
ok... Samuel came up out of the ground and met Saul.
Abraham
spoke with The Rich Man across a great gulf.
Jesus
said "today you will be with me in Paradise." And He also said after
rising to Mary, "do not touch me, for I have not ascended to the Father
yet."
These
truths point to paradise being in the center of the earth. Hell is also there.
In
Matt. Ch.27 verse 52 there was recorded a resurrection after Jesus rose. These
people came out of Paradise. [This is the first resurrection; they came out of their graves. sing]
Jesus
also said, "No man hath ascended into heaven save the Son of Man who came
drown from Heaven."
This
means, no one after death went to heaven when they died. They either went to
Hell or Paradise before the Resurrection.
Later,
Paul speaks of a Vision, seeing Paradise.
“I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) how that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.” 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 KJV
So,
we have biblical records in several places giving us the previous place, the
transition and the final place of Paradise. Paradise is in Heaven now. Now,
when people die, they go to Paradise in Heaven.
Sing
Raggy. Thank
you for the Scriptures on the subject. Now I need to connect the dots.
Mt
2751And,
behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom;
and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52And
the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And
came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and
appeared unto many.
That's
the first resurrection.
Revelation
20 - KJT —
5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were
finished. This is the first resurrection.
6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the
second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and
shall reign with him a thousand years.
Obert
Raggy
"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven,
even the Son of man which is in heaven." I think the word ascend means
under own power, also Elijah was taken UP in a whirlwind. So the theology that
says no man went to heaven before the Ressurection is flawed.
Obert
Raggy, as to the words spoken to Mary was concerning touching his body which was in
the tomb while his spirit was committed to the Father in Heaven. As to Paradise
notice the phrase "caught UP", not taken down. There is no verse that
says the position of Paradise changed. Difficult verses should be approached
carefully and humbly before God and after often many years of personal study
these things may be revealed or not at all in this time life. Just words of
caution brother.
Obert
If God
himself preached before the Gospel unto Abraham as well as Job was given hope
by knowledge before there was the written word. Then we after they are dead
judge them to be faithful based upon precepts we have learned through the
Gospel thus the dead are judged according to men in the flesh, that they lived
by the Spirit. This text in Peter is a regeneration text by the voice of the
Son of God. IMHO
Raggy
Obert, The Apostle's Creed that's accepted widely by all the other major
creeds were written by early church fathers who read Greek, Latin, Aramaic and
even some Hebrew. They concluded that Jesus went into the lower parts of the
earth by way of the Greek text.
I
personally came to this conclusion before I knew of the Apostles' Creed. So my
interpretation lines up with those who never had an English Bible. This
testifies to the validity and accuracy of the Greek text being translated into
English.
Raggy
Obert, I've heard that interpretation. It's a rare position held. But my
elders at Mars Hill pretty much taught the same thing you are referring to now.
But I personally stay with the Apostles' Creed.
Obert
Raggy, I never heard anyone preach on this text nor have I read any creeds, I just
stay with study and prayer and precepts learned by verifying preaching on any
topics I heard by the word and prayer. I trust no man's writing. May the Lord
bless your study.
