https://web.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10203815562484986&set=a.10203815559804919
March
4, 2015
In
Christ Jesus...
The
elect are in Christ Jesus in several distinct and different senses...
1. ALL the elect are DECRETALLY in Christ by the decree of election.
2. ALL the elect are LEGALLY in Christ by the legal purchase executed at the cross.
3.
EACH elect personally is VITALLY united to Christ and becomes in Christ
personally when salvation is APPLIED to him personally at his effectual calling
out of his native state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation in
Jesus Christ.
4.
AN elect is EXPERIENTIALLY in Christ through his conversion to Christ by the
gospel ministry. Not every elect is in Christ in this experiential sense.
5. ALL elect shall FINALLY be, i.e. completely glorified, in Christ at their
general resurrection to eternal glory!
A
man objected and mocked the above truth by raising his objection, saying:
"No,
Sing, let me go ahead and blow your mind right now. Romans 16:7 "Greet
Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners. They are well known
to the apostles, and they were in Christ before me."
I
was completely puzzled and inquired:
What
did you blow up with Rom 16:7? Honest question.
He
explained:
"How
can someone else be IN CHRIST before Paul was if all were in Christ at the
cross?" [sing: I was expecting a
barrel of dynamite, but it was only a bucket of mud! How disappointing! <lol>]
I
replied:
Those
in Christ before Paul were those CONVERTED to Christ before Paul was! Paul was
speaking of the experiential sense.
If
you are ignorant of the Scriptures teaching those different and distinct
aspects of "in Christ", please let us know.
You
are quite confused. You see the experiential aspect as the sum-total of what
the Scriptures teach of the elect's standing IN Christ. That's WOEFULLY
deficient.
Craig
Kennedy
Well
said!
David
Bishop
This
is not what you posted, Sing, and this is not what I commented on. Talk about
misrepresenting. Here is what you wrote and what I commented on:
_____
I
have a simple mind...
Imputation
of Christ's righteousness is a legal action, and thus independent of the
personal existence/being of the beneficiaries (the elect).
Application
of Christ's righteousness to each elect personally necessarily involves the
personal existence/being of the beneficiaries (the elect).
Just
as Adam's sin was ONCE imputed to all represented by him, even so, the
righteousness of Christ was ONCE imputed to all represented by Him, i.e. at
the cross
Just
as the imputed sin of Adam takes effect / is applied at the conception of each
man represented by him, even so, the imputed righteousness of Christ takes
effect / is applied at the effectual calling of each elect to grace and salvation
in Christ Jesus.
-------
David Bishop
Are
you not insisting that the elect are justified twice?!
You insist the elect were imputed with the righteousness at the cross, but that this righteousness has no effect until it is later "applied". I have asked you time and time again to prove this from the Bible as everyone who has been following the post can attest. You have consistently refused to do this!
Sing
F Lau
Bishop,
I warn you first. You are here on my page. No ranting or raving. I don't
tolerate STUPID men well... by stupid I meant "lacking common sense."
And you sure do lack common sense.
I
have just copied from Craig page this comment (your question and my reply)
============
Question
"Sing
F Lau How can someone else be IN CHRIST before Paul was if all were in Christ
at the cross?"
Answer:
That's
because you are completely IGNORANT that an elect is IN CHRIST in a distinct and different sense...
-
ALL the elect are DECRETALLY in Christ by the decree of election.
-
ALL the elect are LEGALLY in Christ under the legal purchase
executed at the cross.
-
EACH elect personally is VITALLY united to Christ and become in Christ personally
when salvation was APPLIED to him personally at effectual calling out of his
native state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation in Jesus Christ.
-
AN elect is EXPERIENTIALLY in Christ through the gospel ministry in his
conversion to Christ.
-
ALL elect shall be FINALLY, i.e. completely glorified, in Christ at the resurrection to eternal glory!
Those
in Christ before Paul were those CONVERTED to Christ before Paul was!
Paul was
speaking of the experiential sense.
If
you are ignorant of the Scriptures teaching those different and distinct
aspects of "in Christ", please let us know.
You
are quite confused.
=============
You can HARDLY represent truth properly. So, be careful when you rant here. If you INQUIRE to learn, I can be very patient.
David
Bishop
You,
sir, are a liar.
Sing
F Lau
In what did I lie?
"Denunciation
is the last resort of a defeated opponent." Pink
Sing
F Lau
You asked, "Are
you not insisting that the elect are justified twice?!
=============
A
man who asks this is OBVIOUSLY ignorant and clueless that the Scriptures
DECLARES and TEACHES manifold aspects of justification, some aspects are
ONCE-FOR-ALL non-repeatable justification, and one aspect is ongoing.
If
you wish to find out more, read here:
https://pruning-deformed-branches.blogspot.com/2008/01/dazzling-multi-faceted-jewel_24.html
Pruning
7 Deformed Branches: A Dazzling Multi-faceted Jewel
Sing
F Lau
You
insist the elect were imputed with the righteousness at the cross, but that
this righteousness has no effect until it is later "applied". I have
asked you time and time again to prove this from the Bible as everyone who has
been following the post can attest. You have consistently refused to do this!
====================
When
a man is both blind and deaf, whatever you show him and say to him, they will
not register with him! He has made up his mind to see what he wants to see, and
hears what he wants to hear. He shuts out the rest.
I
have said, again and again, the Scriptures declare and teach..
-
justification by the eternal decree of God,
-
justification by the blood of Jesus Christ,
-
justification by the free grace of God,
-
justification by the believing acts of those whom God has freely justified.
What
the all-wise God has distinguished and made distinct, let not foolish man
confound and synergize!
If a man prides himself as a theologian but is too lazy to locate, or ignorant of the Scriptures that declare these distinct truths, then he hasn't earned the right to argue and dispute! He should politely inquire and humbly study!
Sing
F Lau
"The
most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has
not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made
clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows
already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him." - Leo
Tolstoy –
David
Bishop
That
was not the comment from you that I posted Romans 16:7 to, Sing. And you know
that. You came back with the comment you have posted here WELL AFTER I posted
Romans 16:7. The way you have the conversation posted here though, you have me
citing Romans 16:7 in response to a comment that you actually answered my
citation with, as though I gave you Romans 16:7 in response to you saying
ALLLLL the elect are decretally in Christ, and ALLLLL the elect are legally in
Christ, etc. You know this is a lie. I did not cite Romans 16:7 in response to
this.
David
Bishop
I
have said, again and again, the Scriptures declare and teach..
-
justification by the eternal decree of God,
-
justification by the blood of Jesus Christ,
-
justification by the free grace of God,
-
justification by the believing acts of those whom God has freely justified.
=========
THEN
WHY SAY THIS --
Just
as Adam's sin was ONCE imputed to all represented by him, even so, the
righteousness of Christ was ONCE imputed to all represented by Him, i.e. at
the cross
AND
WHY SAY THIS --
Imputation
of Christ's righteousness is a legal action, and thus independent of the
personal existence/being of the beneficiaries (the elect).
David
Bishop
Is
this simply a case where you have not explained yourself well?
Just
as Adam's sin was ONCE imputed to all represented by him, even so, the
righteousness of Christ was ONCE imputed to all represented by Him, i.e. at
the cross
At
the cross, Sing? The righteousness of Christ was once imputed to all the
represented by Him,at the cross?
i.e.
is short for the Latin "id est", "it is."
Just
as Adam's sin was ONCE imputed to all represented by him, even so, the
righteousness of Christ was ONCE imputed to all represented by Him, i.e. (it
is) at the cross
Is that what you mean to say?
Sing
F Lau
Go
back and take a good look.
You
quoted Romans 16:7, and asked the smart-alecky rhetorical question:
"No,
Sing, let me go ahead and blow your mind right now. Romans 16:7 "Greet
Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners. They are well known
to the apostles, and they were in Christ before me."
The
subject under discussion was IMPUTATION.
You
introduced the subject of IN CHRIST.
You
changed the subject, and I condescended to address your ignorance.
And
I addressed your smart-alecky "let me go ahead and blow your mind right now..."
and dealt with the passage quoted, Rom 16:7.
I told you, no STUPID raving here, or else you lose your PRIVILEGE here.
David
Bishop
Whatever.
I
asked you a question about imputation. Here it is again.
YOU
SAID: Just as Adam's sin was ONCE imputed to all represented by him, even so,
the righteousness of Christ was ONCE imputed to all represented by Him, i.e. at
the cross
I ASK: At the cross, Sing? The righteousness of Christ was once imputed to all the represented by Him, at the cross? i.e. is short for the Latin "id est", "it is." Just as Adam's sin was ONCE imputed to all represented by him, even so, the righteousness of Christ was ONCE imputed to all represented by Him, i.e. (it is) at the cross. Is that what you mean to say?
David
Bishop
It
must be what you mean to say, because here is a quote from your blog.
LEGAL
Condemnation of all in Adam ACTUALLY took place in the garden. LEGAL
Justification of all in Christ ACTUALLY took place at the cross.
You
now say here the elect are justified at their calling. Have you changed your
mind?
David
Bishop
SING,
SING, SING, SING. MY MAN, "IN CHRIST" IS IMPUTATION!!!!!!! "IN
CHRIST" IS BIBLICAL SHORTHAND FOR IMPUTATION.
Sing
F Lau
Bishop,
when you asked, "WHY SAY THIS" - you need to demonstrate if there is
any inconsistency in those statements? If you are incapable of that, you should
just muzzle up, or else you will appear as stupid, i.e. lacking common sense.
You
shouldn't flood this page with your raving.
Don't
appear like a greedy glutton.
If you want to feed, feed yourself spoonful by spoonful... chew and swallow each spoonful before shoving more spoonfuls into your mouth... you may choke yourself to death!!! Just a friendly piece of advice.
Sing
F Lau
Bishop
insists: i.e.
is short for the Latin "id est", "it is."
My
humble dictionary says:
i.e. abbreviation, that
is to say (used to add explanatory information or to state something in
different words) : a walking boot that is synthetic, i.e., not leather or
suede. ORIGIN
from Latin id est ‘that is.’
Now,
I'm convinced Mr Bishop is stupid, lacking common sense.
Don't
try to impress me with your Latin or Greek, or even Hebrew! <LOL>
Had
I wanted to write "it is" I would have written "it's".
Sing
F Lau
No,
Bishop, I have not changed my mind. The problem is you are deficient in
understanding and are quite ignorant of the distinction between LEGAL
justification at the cross, and VITAL justification at their calling!
To you, justification is like a one-fingered monstrous hand, instead of the wonderful and wholesome five-fingered hand.
Sing
F Lau
Hey
Bishop, I have to switch the setting from "Public" to
"Friends" - to prevent your insatiable urge to flood the thread
with endless comments.
This
restraint imposed on you also allows you time to read and digest the responses
to your many posts.
