Yuk, a rotten apple!
"If you don't have the Holy Spirit,
repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ
and thou shalt be saved."
Nilodel
If you don't have the Holy Spirit, if you don't have Christ, all the good you think you are doing add to your condemnation, speeds up your trip to hellfire, and rightly so, because you think you can bribe God by your filthy little "good" works. REPENT and BELIEVE on the LORD JESUS CHRIST and thou shalt be saved!
September 1 Saturday at 7:48pm [19 people like this.1 share]
Shiela
amen...
Sing F Lau
'If you don't have the Holy Spirit... Repent and believe...'???????
Then what? Repent and believe and you will have the Holy Spirit, and have Christ?
What is that I'm hearing?
And NINETEEN people 'Like' such nonsense, and ONE 'amen', and ONE 'shared'!!!
Pray tell, whatever has happened to truth and soundness of mind???
Nilodel
Brother. The conviction and new birth is separate from the indwelling and filling of the Holy Spirit. If you think I am wrong I can accept a correctio. please teach us from the bible so we can be rid of amy nonsense
Sing F Lau
Brother Nilodel, I can only read your words are make my assessment based on your words.
Your words, "If you don't have the Holy Spirit..." is a statement about the new birth. What does that imply, brother Nilo?
If a man DOES NOT HAVE the Holy Spirit, is he born again or is he still dead in trespasses and sins? [Nilodel hasn't answered this Q]
Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Do you read the last sentence - "Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his"?
And if a man is dead in trespasses and sins, how do you expect him to repent and believe?
[Nilodel hasn't answered this Q]
Christ repeated, 'Except a man be born again, he CANNOT... CANNOT...' To teach otherwise is to LIE and DECEIVE that the unregenerated (and do not have the Holy Spirit) can do something to get themselves saved!
Nilodel
Do you see th new birth and indwelling as one event or one action of God or does one come after the other?
Sing F Lau
The regenerated are given the Spirit of adoption to dwell in them.
They are distinct actions of God. They cannot be separated.
Therefore if one does not have the Spirit of Christ/God, he is still dead in trespasses and sins, he is NONE of Christ.
Ro 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Ro 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
The Spirit of adoption is the gift given to the regenerated, AND adopted.
Nilodel
I think we are saying the same thing
Sing F Lau
I very much doubt we are saying the same thing if words have meaning.
Not that I want to disagree with you... may be if you rephrase your words, then we may be saying the same thing.
It is OK if we are saying different things.
You said, "REPENT and BELIEVE on the LORD JESUS CHRIST and thou shalt be saved."
Thou shalt be saved - what salvation are you talking about.
Are you saying that a man who is not saved by God is able to repent and believe in order to be saved by God? Just what do you mean? [Nilodel hasn't answered this Q]
Can a man who is not saved by God's free grace able to repent and believe?
[Nilodel hasn't answered this Q]
What kind of salvation does repenting and believing get?
[Nilodel hasn't answered this Q]
Basic questions, Brother Nilo.
Give them some thoughts.
Nilodel
I just quoted Paul, Act_16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. and we both know that repentance is part of belief, Act_20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jers
The Bible is very clear...….."The times of ignorance therefore God overlooked; but now he commandeth men that they should all everywhere repent:" (Act 17:30)
"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Act 2:38)
"And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house." (Act 16:31-34)
"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." (Joh 3:3,5)
JESUS said that if we love HIM we will keep HIS commandments (John 14:15). JESUS also said that he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he who does not believe will be condemned (Mark 16:16)! Thus faith leads to the baptism that doth also now save us (1 Peter 3:21)!
[I don't know Jers want to says with these passages. So many quote passages and imagine they say what you want them to say!!!]
Nilodel
Jers, that is another matter altogether. Let me and bro Henry finish this quickening/indwelling discussion and then we can go to your post. THANKS
Sing F Lau
Nilodel, note this carefully: Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
You put this: "If you do not have the Holy Spirit..." and this "REPENT and BELIEVE on the LORD JESUS CHRIST and thou shalt be saved" together.
Doctor Luke puts this "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
and this, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" together.
Do you see the vast difference?
And since you mention Acts 16:31, let me draw your attention to an important matter that you may have missed THUS FAR...
The man asked, "What must I - I -I do to be saved?"
HE - HE -HE was told, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and THOU shalt be saved, AND THY HOUSE."
Apostle Paul assured that his act of believing on the Lord Jesus Christ shalt save HIM AND HIS HOUSE?
Is there salvation by PROXY - his believing will get him AS WELL AS his house saved? If there is, what salvation is spoken of? [Nilodel hasn't answered this Q]
Can a man who is not saved by God's free grace able to repent and believe? [Nilodel hasn't answered this Q]
Is the salvation by God's free grace that enables a man to believe, and the salvation that comes from believing the ONE and the SAME salvation? [Nilodel hasn't answered this Q]Does this question ever occur to you?
Give them some thoughts.
Nilodel
NO. It has never occurred to me that the salvation mentioned by Paul in Acts 16:31 is not the same salvation of the SOUL mentioned in other scriptures. I have never heard a Baptist preacher explain it that way.
This is what a man wiser than me said of Acts 16:31
And thou shalt be saved; from sin, and all its miserable effects and consequences; from the curses of the law, from the power of Satan, from the evil of the world, from the wrath of God, hell and damnation: this is to be understood of a spiritual and eternal salvation; for it is said, after that the jailer was inquiring about it, being terrified in his conscience with a sense of sin and wrath; and between believing in Christ, and being saved with an everlasting salvation, there is a strict and inseparable connection, Mark 16:16 though not faith, but Christ is the cause and author of salvation; faith spies salvation in Christ, goes to him for it, receives it from him, and believes unto it:
and thy house; or family, provided they believe in Christ also, as they did, Act_16:34 or otherwise there can be no salvation, for he that believeth not shall be damned. - JOHN GILL
Sing F Lau
Nilodel, I have great respect for Gill.
So, the questions I raised, are they irrelevant?
If they are relevant, deal with them. Otherwise just ignore then!
"and thy house; or family, provided they believe in Christ also, as they did, Act 16:34 or otherwise there can be no salvation, for he that believeth not shall be damned." - JOHN GILL
Don't you think Gill just added to the Scriptures at this point???
The man asked, "Sirs, what must I - I -I do to be saved?"
He was assured, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and THOU shalt be saved, and THY HOUSE."
They stated very plainly, the jailer's believing SHALL save him AND his house... other other qualification or requirement!
Do you think a man whom God has not ALREADY SAVED - regenerated and given the Spirit of adoption - is able to repent and believe? have you answer this question yet? [Nilodel hasn't answered this Q]
Back to the same question!
O, and one more question, 'who is the house of the jailer?' his wife and children, or what? [Nilodel hasn't answered this Q]
Think a little for yourself, Brother.
Gill is a very helpful guide. He is not the authority!
Sing F Lau
I'm knocking off... zzzzzzzzzzz. Please pray for a blessed day of worship and fellowship tomorrow. It is just past midnight here. May our Lord bless you in rightly dividing the word of truth. Amen.
Jers
;)
Nilodel
Even without Gill, I understood it that way. It's like an identity equation in Algebra, a (b + c) = ab + ac. a = believing on the Lord Jesus Christ b = thou c = thy house
Sing F Lau
Nilodel, suppose such explanation is permissible, it still DOESN'T work.
Scriptures DOES NOT permit logical fallacies.
Do you think a man whom God has not ALREADY SAVED - regenerated and given the Spirit of adoption - is able to repent and believe? have you answer this question yet? [Nilodel hasn't answered this Q]
Is the salvation by God's free grace that enables a man to believe, and the salvation that comes from believing the ONE and the SAME salvation? Does this question ever occur to you? [Nilodel hasn't answered this Q]
Try again... I'm off to morning service.
Nilodel
Act 11:14 KJV Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
Nilodel
Eph 1:13 KJV "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise."
This is what I believe happenned to me
Sing F Lau
Thanks for praying for the service. I was able to preach from Job 9 - 'Crying out for a Mediator.'
We had a new visitor... his name is Corinth, 27 y.o. Fine man... said he would come back next week.
Interesting passages... what are they telling you?
Quoting passages without stating its teachings and implications... is a foolish game!
Please tell me, before Apostle Peter was sent to Cornelius, was he a man ALREADY SAVED by God? Or was he still dead in trespasses and sins? [Nilodel hasn't answered this Q]
And please tell me, what is the salvation spoken of in Acts 11:14 - how will Peter's preaching the gospel message to Cornelius save him and his household? [Nilodel hasn't answered this Q]
Raise no more further passages please. Answer some questions will help you to learn a few things, Brother.
Sing F Lau
"... after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation..."
========
Are you thinking, or are you just addicted to sound?
Please spend a few moment reading this article on this WONDERFUL passage.
May our Lord deliver you from fable!
http://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2009/11/word-of-truth-gospel-of-your-salvation.html
Nilodel
You are coming in too strongly brother Sing Lau, please hold back words such as fables, foolish game, etc. Because they tend to stop good conversation rather than expose the truth. I am willing to discuss but not vainly dispute.
As I read...
your posts and the blog entry you made, I sense a determination to prove the following:
election - physical birth - sins - regeneration (salvation) - gospel preached and understood - faith/belief of the truth - conversion is my characterization of your soteriology accurate?
Sing F Lau
Apostle Paul warns us of fables... and doctrine of demons...The devil quoted passages of Scriptures when he tempted Jesus.
Ok, I apologize... not because I think it is wrong, but because it unsettles you.
You inquired, "is my characterization of your soteriology accurate?"
Willing discussion requires answering questions!
You haven't answered the questions I pose to you! [Nilodel hasn't even answered ONE Q up to this point!]
Look here for my take on The Order of Salvation. Give it a close read before another question.
http://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2011/05/order-of-salvation.html
Sing F Lau
And here also:
http://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2010/04/messed-up-order-of-salvation-of.html
Things New and Old: A Messed Up Order of Salvation of a Calvinist
Please read some... some reading will save me answering so many questions
It will give you some ammunition to attack the confused calvinists also!
They have messed up soteriology too... just like their Arminian cousins.
I'm no calvinist! I'm an old school baptist.
Thanks. I'm off to some work now.
Henry
John1:12-13
Philippians 1:29
1Corinthians2:14
Ephesians 1:4-5
Romans12:3
2 Timothy2:25
[don't know what he wants to say with those passages!]
Nilodel
Bro. Sing calling things as fables because they don't exactly agree with you and being impatient for an answer is NOT my kind of conversation.
Sing F Lau
Nilodel, fables because they contradict the Scriptures.
The Lord declares, 'Except a man be born again, he CANNOT...'
To declare that a man who does not have the Holy Spirit is able to repent and believe is to teach the opposite and to DECEIVE the hearers, teaching a fiction and a fable.
To teach otherwise... those who do not have the Spirit, therefore not born again can repent and believe is FABLES.... worse... plain lies.
If you disagree that they are fables (fictions), you have the great honour to rebut it and show what is the truth that conforms to Scriptures.
Thanks for not answering the questions that when answered will only expose lies.
Enough said.
Nilodel
Thanks for the answers and the questions
.
Henry
But Bro Sing, there is nothing you can do if people think the other way because it is that way God made them think. Philippians2:13
I think there is a right time, right way to present the Truth.
This is like fishing men again. If you scare them, it is harder to catch any.
Henry
Bro Sing, you say you are not a calvinist, but your ways, you cannot deny.
Sing F Lau
But Bro Sing, there is nothing you can do if people think the other way because it is that way God made them think.
========
Hmmmmmm so, it is God's fault because His people choose to believe lies and fables?
I really think you have ABUS...
E the Phi 2:13.
God's working in His children to will and to do His good please... and that does not include believing lies and fables!!!
Supposing your statement is right, why would God ordain the gospel ministry to CONVERT His children?
Why would God said, 'Come, let us reason together...' if God has made them think that way and believe lies and falsehood?
Sing F Lau
Why do you say I'm a calvinist when I told you I'm not?
Do you know me better than myself?
So what did I say that make you think I'm a calvinist?
Did you read the link on "A Messed Up Order of Salvation of a Calvinist" above?
Henry
Only God can change people. It is not yours. Your only job is to show the gospel.
Exodus4:11
Show it in Godly way . If people stumble, you could be held accountable.
Sing F Lau
Thanks.
The word of God is the means appointed by God to sanctify - to separate them from lies and falsehood - His people. His people must repent, God doesn't repent for them.
If His people persist in their unbelief, they shall suffer God's chastisement.
Henry
Belief? Was given to you Philippians 1:29
Faith? was given to you Romans 12:3
Repentance?was given to you 2Timothy2:25
So don't blame your fellow Christians even if they are Arminians. They are still in Christ.
Henry
Because it is only our job to give the Gospel, Bro Nilo's post is right. God will water it to whomever He will, whoever He will give belief, faith, and repentance.
Sing F Lau
Henry, you are too clever for your own good!!!
Ph 1:29 says BOTH believing and suffering for Christ sake is part of our Christian calling!!!
God has dealt every child of God a measure of faith... that grace of faith is WORKED in the heart ...
by the Holy Spirit. That grace enables a child of God to believe the truth of the gospel of his salvation. But the child of God is held responsible to believe... it is his duty and responsibility to believe. God DID NOT make him to not believe.
2Tim 2:25 "In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth..."
Yes indeed... unless a man sees that he is OPPOSING HIMSELF - doing injuries to himself by believing in lies and fables,,, there is NO HOPE of repentance to the acknowledging of the truth.
My work is to show him that he is OPPOSING HIMSELF... and that he should repent of his lies and fable. And yes, if God peradventure will give him repentance to the acknowledging the truth.
No, I don't blame anyone for what they believe. That's their choice... No, God didn't make that believe what they believe - like you wish to claim.
I do want to show them what I believe the Scriptures does say.
Nilodel's post teaches that those dead still dead in trespasses and sins - those who have not the Holy Spirit - can repent and believe in Jesus Christ to be saved.
Christ said plainly, except a man be born again, he CANNOT...
Nilodel says the exact opposite!
Thanks for your wise words.
Nilodel
Bro. Sing. Please review my posts. You have misunderstood my position
Henry
There are two ways to look at God's word.
From a human view and God's view.
The problem that I could see is you are mixing it.
Tim
I shared because Bro Nilo was quoting Scripture.
No, a man without the Spirit cannot believe, cannot repent, cannot hear Christ, cannot please God, cannot accept anything from the Spirit, but we are to proclaim to them the Gospel nonetheless.
I believe the reason the lost are told to repent is to PROVE to us (God's Elect) the impossibility of repenting without God first working. What better way to prove to a man that he can't fly than by telling him to flap his arms and take off?
I see the following as saying the same thing Bro Nilo originally posted:
IF YOU'RE NOT SAVED "...REPENT and BELIEVE on the LORD JESUS CHRIST and thou shalt be saved."
Henry
Bro Sing, just because Bro Nilo says repent doesn't mean a lost man can repent. Bro Nilo just simply proclaimed the Gospel.
Sing F Lau
Nilodel, your post stated this:
"If you don't have the Holy Spirit, if you don't have Christ, all the good you think you are doing add to your condemnation, speeds up your trip to hellfire, and rightly so, because you think you can bribe God by your filthy little "good" works. REPENT and BELIEVE on the LORD JESUS CHRIST and thou shalt be saved."
You are telling the man who does not have the Holy Spirit nor Christ, therefore still dead in trespasses and sins, to repent and believe in Jesus Christ and he shall be saved.
You may not intend to say this, but if words have meaning that's what you are saying.
Sing F Lau
Henry, you make a grave oversight:
You said, "... just because Bro Nilo says repent doesn't mean a lost man can repent. Bro Nilo just simply proclaimed the Gospel."
That's not what Nilo is doing. He is telling a man who does not have the Holy Spirit, therefore is dead in trespasses and sins, to perform some spiritual activities in order to get saved.
If he does not intend to say that, he should rephrase his words.
The gospel is the good news of what God HAS DONE TO SAVE His people... thus enabling them to believe, and such are called upon to believe the gospel of their salvation by God's free grace, when they were yet dead in trespasses and sins, they were quickened!
The gospel is not the good news of what God WILL DO TO SAVE those who would do something, or meet some conditions.
The salvation that enables a man to believe is separate and distinct from the salvation that comes from believing. Just ask yourself - from what does God by His grace save you from; and from what does your believing the gospel of Jesus Christ save you from. I asked this question from the beginning but no one cares to reply.
Thanks. I'm done with this thread.
"If you are dead, then do these in order to be made alive" NONSENSE
