Things New & Old

Ancient truths revealed in the Scriptures are often forgotten, disbelieved or distorted, and therefore lost in the passage of time. Such ancient truths when rediscovered and relearned are 'new' additions to the treasury of ancient truths. Christ showed many new things to the disciples, things prophesied by the prophets of old but hijacked and perverted by the elders and their traditions, but which Christ reclaimed and returned to His people.

There are things both new and old here. "Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things"
2Ti 2:7.


Friday, December 19, 2014

Nativity fables and lies!

Nativity fables and lies!

Below is a typical picture depicting the nativity scene, the wise men of the east presenting their precious gifts to, and worshiping, the new born babe - in the stable, with the bleating sheep and mooing cows. 

The shepherds met the new born King in the manger, who was there only for the briefest days necessary. 
 Luke 2:
 8 ¶ And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. 9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. 10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. 11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. 12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. 13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, 14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men. 15 And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us. 16 And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger

Note "is born this day... let us now go... found the babe lying in a manger." The shepherds made haste and found the new born BABE lying in a manger!

ON THE OTHER HAND, the wise men met the YOUNG CHILD King Jesus in the house of Mary and Joseph much later, when they eventually found him. When these wise men were making their way to Jerusalem to meet, and worship the King of the Jews, Jesus was NO LONGER in the manger! He was already in Joseph and Mary's HOME. Quite a long time had elapsed before they found the King of the Jews, and presented unto Him their precious gifts, and worship.

Read Matthew 2:1-11.
Verse 11 reads: 
"And when they were come into THE HOUSE, they saw the YOUNG CHILD with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh."

Note "the house... the young child.."

As usual, lots of sentimentalism and fables are attached with this pagan thing that the world has introduced into so many churches, and hearts, including those who rave and rant, "we are people of the Boooooook." That is a popular and religious shibboleth - something the present generation is addicted to.

And they will continue believing lies and fables no matter how clear their Book informs them. They, and the world love the sight of a helpless babe in a manger. They hate the sight of Him who is exalted King at the right hand of the Majesty on high! 

"We are people of the Booooook.... Sola Scriptura" - they rave on. The devils believe them.
A picture betrays some horrid lies!


Nativity fables and lies!

  Above is a typical picture depicting the nativity scene, the wise men of the east presenting their precious gifts to, and worshiping, the new born babe - in a stable, with the bleating sheep and mooing cows.

The shepherds met the new born King in the manger, who was there only for the few necessary days .

Luke 2:
8 ¶ And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. 9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. 10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. 11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. 12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. 13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, 14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men. 15 And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us. 16 And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger

Note "is born this day... let us now go... found the babe lying in a manger." The shepherds made haste and found the new born BABE lying in a manger!

ON THE OTHER HAND, the wise men met the YOUNG CHILD King Jesus in the house of Mary and Joseph much later, when they eventually found him. When these wise men were making their way to Jerusalem to meet, and worship the King of the Jews, Jesus was NO LONGER in the manger! He was already in Joseph and Mary's HOME. Quite a long time had elapsed before they found the King of the Jews, and presented unto Him their precious gifts, and worship.

Read Matthew 2:1-11.
Verse 11 reads:
"And when they were come into THE HOUSE, they saw the YOUNG CHILD with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh."

Note "the house... the young child.."

As usual, lots of sentimentalism and fables are attached with this pagan thing that the world has introduced into so many churches, and hearts, including those who rave and rant, "we are people of the Boooooook." That is a popular and religious shibboleth - something the present generation is addicted to.

And they will continue believing lies and fables no matter how clear their Book informs them. They, and the world love the sight of a helpless babe in a manger. They hate the sight of Him who is exalted King at the right hand of the Majesty on high!

"We are people of the Booooook.... Sola Scriptura" - they rave on. The devils believe the claims!

p/s  Celebrate Christmas if you must, but please don't associate it with Christ or His religion! To do so is to misrepresent Christ, thus grievous and injurious to Christ. Just be honest and say, "I love a festival of pagan origin." That way, you MAY be commended for your honesty.

Thursday, December 4, 2014

Yesterday, and today, and for ever


Some exchanges on "yesterday..."

Wed. Nov. 26, 2014
THE TRUTH IS ---
Heb. 13:8 = “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and for ever.’
That simply, briefly means – He has never changed one iota in quality and quantity, being the precise same whether in the body or out, as the Word, then also as the Son, as our Redeemer, as our Advocate,  as our Intercessor, from the womb to the tomb and all in between, such as location, in the manger, country villages,  cities, valleys, hills, mountains, water, or dry land, whether alone or in the Jew’s synagogues, also even according to contract, legal, vital in or out of you, and no matter, as eternally He is in you, but timely you may vary gospelly in learning and understanding. So, whether in the body in Heaven or Spiritually simultaneously in you. Finally, He on Earth, from the cradle to the grave, age 12 or 30, as a man, but eternally He is God manifested in the flesh.
Elder Ulanoe

Sing F Lau
I turned on the computer and your post is right on top!!! What providence!

Elder Ulanoe, do you agree that 'yesterday' has a beginning? That "yesterday" is entirely different from "eternal"?  One question: is the Word exactly the same as the Son?
   
Ulanoe
YESTERDAY means all PAST, even back through even before Gen. 1:1 into Eternity Past. Kindly,
   
Sing
Then you are completely wrong! There was a time when there was no Jesus. Jesus had a beginning - in the womb of a virgin woman by the supernatural power of God!!!

If yesterday extends all the way back beyond the beginning of time, then words have lost its meaning!

Ulanoe
Even before being manifested IN THE FLESH He was still the Son of God. Enough
 
Sing
Before being manifest IN THE FLESH there was the eternal Word. The Son is the eternal Word manifest in the flesh. Plain?

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
The Word and the Son are NOT the same.
The Word is the one-natured divine Being.
The Son is the dual natured divine-human Being.
If you insist that they are the same, then we read different Bibles!
   
Ricky
Each person in the trinity has always been.
   
Sing
The second Person of the triune God has always been the Word. At one particular point in time, the eternal Word was made flesh, and the Son of God was begotten, begotten by the mysterious power of God, in the womb of a virgin.

Heb. 13:8 “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and for ever.’
It is basic, "yesterday" has a beginning in time. The Word has no beginning; the Word is eternal, un-begotten! The begotten, Son Jesus Christ, has a beginning!
   
Pjoh
There are three that bear record in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Spirit. The Father is the Father of the Word, which necessarily implies that the Word is the Son of the Father.
  
 Dannie
"Yesterday, today, and forever" is a literary tool to teach the immutability of Jesus Christ. This approach appeals to human mind and understanding, thus we may consider it an anthropomorphism.

What can precisely express the "past" but yesterday.
What can precisely express the "present" but today.
What can precisely express the "future" but forever.

We cannot take yesterday in its strictest and literal sense else we'd be forced to believe that Jesus existed only the other day.
He is immutable in the past, present, and future.
   
Bernardoe
The Word of God is also called the "Son" in this Scripture in the OT, many hundreds of years before His incarnation in the flesh:
 "Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?" Proverbs 30:4
The Word and the Son have always been the same Person--eternally.
   
Sing
Brother Bernardoe, I fear you are wrong with that passage.

Proverbs 30 is an appendix to Solomon’s proverbs. Agur, a wise man, taught Ithiel and Ucal (Pr 30:1). His lessons are inspired wisdom, for they are called “the prophecy” (Pr 30:1; 31:1). He introduced his lessons by first confessing his great natural ignorance (Pr 30:2-3), then by proving man’s inability to find out God and wisdom (Pr 30:4), and finally by defining the absolute necessity and sufficiency of Scripture (Pr 30:5-6).

The seven rhetorical questions in this proverb prove no man can find out God or wisdom by human effort. The answer to each question is an obvious negative. No man has gone to heaven, or come back, or conquered the elements to learn the ways and wisdom of God. Agur forced Ithiel and Ucal to admit by force of reason there was no man. They could not name any man who had done such a thing, and they could not name his son.

Don't grasp at straw! And please don't use the passage in Daniel.
   
Pjoh
The Father is eternally the Father of whom?
Is He:
A.) the Father of the Father
B.) the Father of the Word
C.) the Father of the Spirit
   
Sing
I read of someone as the everlasting Father... most certain not the one you imagine!
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

An eternal Father is as fictional as the eternal Son. An eternal father is a fiction generated from another fiction - eternal son! Fictions are self generating!
The eternal Word is the truth, and the eternal Word was made flesh is also the truth. The Son is the eternal Word made flesh is also the truth.
   
Pjoh
What strange and inconsistent reasoning! The Word was eternally the Word, but the Father was not eternally the Father!
   
Sing
The term "father" is a relational term, conditioned upon the begetting of the son. What's so strange? Isn't that common sense?

Dan @ "What can precisely express the "past" but yesterday."
"Past" is in the realm of time. Yesterday denotes a RECENT past. The man Christ Jesus, the begotten Son of God was on recent origin when the epistle to the Hebrews was written. The Word was made flesh not too long ago!

Dan @ "We cannot take yesterday in its strictest and literal sense else we'd be forced to believe that Jesus existed only the other day."
"Yesterday" is in the realm of time. How far back in time can your "yesterday" go? "Yesterday" denotes a RECENT past, and states a precise and exact truth of the matter. "Yesterday" would be a completely erroneous term to denote something eternal, before time!!!

Dan @ "He is immutable in the past, present, and future."
Yes, Jesus, the begotten Son of God is immutable. He changes not... ever since (in the realm of time) the eternal Word was MADE flesh by the immediate and divine power. You and I can rejoice in this wonderful truth... The man Christ Jesus, the begotten Son of God, is IMMUTABLE. Amen

Bernardoe
Brother Sing, may your fears about my position become a vacuum and vanish into thin air.



In these verses in Proverbs 30, Solomon is saying that no one can know the secrets of God but God Himself and His Eternal Son; Whose Son is the only Person (Heb. 1:3) Who would ever descend from heaven and will ascend back into heaven. Solomon himself humbly confessed he was, like every other human, ignorant of the secrets of God as to how God could perform these treats mentioned in verse four. Nontheless, the Eternal Son of God would become Man himself and would be the only Man that would or could know these secrets of God. God would give His Unique Son and in that giving, the Man child would be born of a woman. He was the Son of God before He was given and He was still the Son when He became incarnate in the flesh--the "Child is born." He was the Son before He was born of woman. "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Isaiah 9:6. "(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) Ephesians 4:9-10. The Eternal Son Who descended is the SAME Eternal Son Who ascended 3-1/2 years after He descended. God has revealed in His inspired word Who His Eternal Son is. HE IS CALLED THE WORD OF GOD, THE SON OF GOD (even in OT Daniel 3:5), THE MAN, THE CHRIST (The Son anointed), THE JEHOVAH, JESUS THE LORD, THE ALMIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, WONDERFUL, COUNSELLER, THE PRINCE OF PEACE, THE BRANCH, THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE, THE FAITHFUL AND TRUE, THE LORD OUR GOD, THE LAMB OF GOD, THE LORD GOD OMNIPOTENT, THE KING OF Kings and LORD OF Lords, and of course JESUS, and perhaps others. The WORD of God is the Eternal SON of God.

Proverbs 30:4--
1. Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? -- This was the prophecy of Solomon (Agur was a fanciful name for Solomon--the wise man) of the Eternal Son of God Who would (and did) fulfil that prophecy by descending from heaven by assumption of human nature. The Eternal Son took upon Him human flesh so to fulfill His Father's will and purpose in redemption and sanctification. John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (KJV)" This is the fulfillment of that prophecy: This is the Eternal Son that came down from heaven: -- Meaning the Son Himself, by assumption of the human nature into union with His Divine Person, i.e., of His Heavenly Deity.

2. Who hath gathered the wind in his fists? -- No man whatsoever has this wisdom or power, No not even Solomon; No one ever, except Almighty God and His Eternal Son Who made the wind and controls it to even obey His will. "He causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings for the rain; he bringeth the wind out of his treasuries." Psalms 135:7

3. Who hath bound the waters in a garment? -- No person ever has this secret of God, nor this power and wisdom, to bind up the waters, except the Almighty God and His Almighty Son. "He bindeth up the waters in his thick clouds; and the cloud is not rent under them" (Job 26:8). "Wherefore, when I came, was there no man? when I called, was there none to answer? Is my hand shortened at all, that it cannot redeem? or have I no power to deliver? behold, at my rebuke I dry up the sea, I make the rivers a wilderness: their fish stinketh, because there is no water, and dieth for thirst" (Isaiah 50:2).

4. Who hath established all the ends of the earth? -- No man has ever possessed this wisdom and power, except for the Almighty God and His Almighty Son, Who eventually was made Man in the flesh.

5. What is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell? -- It is no mere man with any name that can or ever has done any of these things. This prophecy of Soloman's is pointing us only to the Almighty God, and to His Almighty Eternal Son who has the same nature, power, perfections, and all the characteristics as does His Father God. The Eternal Son is a distinct Person from the Father, co-essential and co-existent with the Father and co-equal with Him in every essence. Thus, the Man Christ Jesus, while in His human flesh, could, with all His eternal wisdom say, "All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him" (Matthew 11:27). In Moses' prophecy of God's Eternal Son to be made in the flesh by the woman, this Eternal Son was spoken of, in the masculin gender, as being the Son of the Father by the Personal Masculin pronoun "His" in Genesis 3:15: "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." (KJV)--"HIS HEEL". Only He Who has been eternally in heaven could descend and then ascend back to where He, The Eternal Son of God, was eternally with His Father, knowing all the secrets of God and Eternity itself--is NONE OTHER than the Eternal Son of God. This is His name. He was the Son of God when His Father sent Him to be made in the likeness of men. And HE still IS and will be ETERNALLY so, without beginning or ending. This is the TRUTH in which we rejoice.

Sing F Lau
"Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?" Proverbs 30:4.

The RHETORICAL nature of the questions is simple and plain enough. How can one miss it!!!

If the answers are as you have suggested, then the challenge "if thou canst tell" become meaningless! Why waste the challenge when the answers are SO OBVIOUS?

Which man has ascended up into heaven? NONE.
If you insist otherwise, then give us his name, and his son's name.
The rhetorical nature of the questions is so obvious!
In any case, the rhetorical questions are in the present perfect tense, and no man has done any of those... vindicating the author's assertion that no man can find out God or wisdom by his own effort.

Genevan Calvin on John 3:16

"Both points are distinctly stated to us:
namely, that faith in Christ brings life to all,
and that Christ brought life,
because the Heavenly Father loves the human race,
and wishes that they should not perish." John Calvin
.

Here is some friendly exchanges among brethren of this popular passage of Scriptures.


A brother wrote:
In John 3:16 we read, "For God so loved the world." Some would say that is the "World of the elect," but the word is larger than that. There are many other verses that can be produced that seem to indicate that God's affection goes beyond just the elect. I believe that Scripture teaches that God has an affection for all His creatures, and with the exception of the fallen angels, blesses them.

------------

Brother Brainy,
The love spoken of in John 3:16 is that particular and peculiar love that is intimately and distinctly connected with the sending forth of Jesus Christ, whose work and death alone secured the free gift of eternal life for each of God's elect, and it is that eternal life alone that enables one to believe the gospel (the good news) of what God has done in Jesus Christ to save them.

'Whoever believes HAS/POSSESSES eternal life' is a statement declaring a fact, not a statement making a conditional offer.

To see the love spoken of in John 3:16 outside this context (all stated there in the verse itself) is to shift the focus.

There is a redemptive love of God for His elect alone.
There is a general love/benevolence/care of God for His creatures. You are right, there are many other verses that can be produced that seem to indicate that God's general benevolence extends to His creatures. But His redemptive love is restricted unto the elect alone - He has made up His mind of that matter from before the foundation of the world.

God's redemptive love embraces the non-Jews too, i.e. the world. God has His elect throughout the world, not just among the Jews. That was the message the Jews needed to hear.
"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb."

just a little sandy thought,
sing
----

Hi Sing,
Just a quick note from work. I realize that ole John Calvin doesn't quite carry the same weight with us Baptists as with the Presbies, but here are some of his comments on John 3:16 for conversation's sake....

16. For God so loved the world. Christ opens up the first cause, and, as it were, the source of our salvation, and he does so, that no doubt may remain; for our minds cannot find calm repose, until we arrive at the unmerited love of God. As the whole matter of our salvation must not be sought any where else than in Christ, so we must see whence Christ came to us, and why he was offered to be our Savior. Both points are distinctly stated to us: namely, that faith in Christ brings life to all, and that Christ brought life, because the Heavenly Father loves the human race, and wishes that they should not perish. And this order ought to be carefully observed; for such is the wicked ambition which belongs to our nature, that when the question relates to the origin of our salvation, we quickly form diabolical imaginations about our own merits. Accordingly, we imagine that God is reconciled to us, because he has reckoned us worthy that he should look upon us. But Scripture everywhere extols his pure and unmingled mercy, which sets aside all merits.

----------------------

Brother Brainy,
Keep talking. I am just talking too... grainy as sand in the south sea. So, no smooth clay around.

Well said. That Genevan condemns himself about how, in his very own words, "we quickly form diabolical imaginations about our own merits." O that diabolical imagination, "NAMELY that faith in Christ brings life to all [who believe].”

O that irrational and nonsensical fable that a lifeless person can have faith in Jesus Christ in order that his faith may bring him life! O that breed of Calvinists... with the wicked ambition that belongs to their nature. [Listen, I am only using the words the Genevan himself have used!]

The Genevan said, "... namely that faith in Christ brings life to all..." So in his mind it is faith in Christ is the instrumental CAUSE/MEANS of bringing life to all."

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

The text states so plainly, WHOEVER believes in him... HAVE everlasting life.

Both the Calvinists and Arminians say, "believing BRINGS everlasting life."
These say, believing is IN ORDER to have everlasting life.

I, a Chinese lad, say, "believing evidences the everlasting life already given by God’s free grace."
I say, "one believes BECAUSE he has/possesses everlasting life.

I am not a baptized presbyterian.

mumbling in the south seas,
sing
----

Brethren,
I was surprised by Calvin's commentary on John 3:16.

What do you think of it?


sing

----

Brother Sing,
 I agree with your assessment. Calvin says “faith in Christ brings life to all”. I do not know what he was thinking, but it sounds to me like he is speaking of faith as being instrumental. Who’s faith? I’m not sure, but it sounds like he is speaking of his (their) own. I believe that the Bible clearly teaches that the only instrument that “brings life to all” is the Holy Spirit, which is taught in the first part of this same chapter.

I am not sure why men claim that it is their faith that saves them, but I have many reformed friends that make this claim. Of course, when they do, they usually will add the extra instrument of Gospel preaching too.  -DS

-------------

Dear Brother Sing,
Your commentary seems much better than Calvin's to me. I would rather he had written, "Life in Jesus Christ brings faith to all who are given that life." -- LM