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January
23, 2011
Modern gospels need modern marketing techniques!
Christ's
method was like this:
2
Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are
few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth
labourers into his harvest.
3
Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.
4
Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
This
is in stark contrast to a lot of modern mission activities that are more like
money-based social activities centre missions. This will produce banana disciples
and rice Christians.
64
Comments
===========
Sing
F Lau
5
And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.
6
And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it
shall turn to you again.
"And
if the son of peace be there" - the son of peace exist first, and
Christ-sent preacher comes along, empty-handed BUT the gospel... announcing the
gospel to him.
A
son of peace who has been taken care of by God until His preacher brings the
gospel to him can do very well WITHOUT the cheap and demeaning enticements to
believe the gospel.
Those
cheap enticements - modern man's marketing strategy has SPAWNED so many
counterfeit and banana-churchians!
This is entirely different from doing good to the household of faith. So don't rave and shot in that direction <lol>.
Sing
F Lau
People
despise money politics... but they are so engrossed with money-evangelism!
Janet
Hill Bell
All
well-said! God bless you Brother!
Bill
Taylor
Amen,
Brother Sing
Sing
F Lau
Westcott
and Hort will always have their pettycott and haughty followers. I won't waste
time arguing with them.
Dan
England
The
Apostle Paul had a wonderful attitude. He said, "What then? Only that in
every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed; and in this I
rejoice, yes, and I will rejoice."
Philippians
1:18
The
forces that come to bear in a Christians life is strong in its work to make us
comformed to this age. Whatever age we live in. Is only purity of docrine
rewarded with eternal life? If the basics of salvation being taught are
biblical and intact in a church, then whats the problem with the things that
pass away at Christ's return? Or is accuracy to the "Letter"
necessary? Wouldn't that doctrine make one a modern day Pharisee?
Kevin
Teraoka
it
should read salute no man UNLESS you are lower enlisted in the military and
pass by an officer. Or if you are deployed in a battle zone and want to do a
quick sniper check 😉
Dan
England
That
is so funny Kevin. That happened in Vietnam, but not Iraq or Afganistan! I was
kind of ignorant about saluting. I only saluted if they looked at me.
William
D Martin
It
is so easy to throw rocks at the church and people who make their life th work
of the gospel. Dan, I like the quote from Phillipians 1:18.
I
often wonder what the apostle would say, if he attended some of our so called
churches.
We
all know that the church we see on Sunday morning is often not the real church.
Jesus
used the parable of the wheat and tares, for our instruction. Don't pull the
tares out but let them grow together with the wheat. They will be destroyed at
harvet time.
William
D Martin
He
also said when speaking to Peter, 'On this rock I will build my church and the
gates of hell will not overcome it. If Christ does not build the church it will
fall.
Sing
F Lau
Or
is accuracy to the "Letter" necessary? Wouldn't that doctrine make
one a modern-day Pharisee?
=======
We
are saved to know the truth.
And
if knowing the truth is unimportant, then hold one's peace. To believe rightly
concerning the truth of God is one aspect of honoring God. To misrepresent him
is a disgrace and reproach, shameful.
2Ti
2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be
ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
William
D Martin
I
wonder how many of us are able to without any degree of doubt judge another
believer as to his standing in Christ.
William
D Martin
Sing
will you stand in that place of absolute certainty? Except about your own
standing with the Lord Jesus. Read Romans 14 and rightly divide.
Sing
F Lau
William,
be very clear and stick to the point.
I
am not interested in anyone's standing in the Lord MUCH LESS judge another
believer as to his standing in Christ. You may want to do that. I know RBs love
to do that. I don't want to usurp Christ's sole prerogative.
I
am only concerned with what a man claims what the Bible teaches. A man can
believe ...anything he wishes... but the moment he claims that what he believes
is what the Scriptures say, then I want to compare... I have a Berean spirit.
Stay and chat along if you have the same spirit.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Dan
England
This
is what I believe Sing, Richard:
1Co
15:1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you,
which also you received, in which also you stand,
1Co
15:2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to
you, unless you believed in vain.
1Co
15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that
Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
1Co
15:4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according
to the Scriptures,
1Co
15:5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.
1Co
15:6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time,
most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;
1Co
15:7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles;
1Co
15:8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also.
By
the above I am a born again Christian. If anyone confirms they also fit into
the above 8 verses then we have the right hand of fellowship, together we
endeavor to glorify God. And like the Apostles, with whom I have fellowship
with, I also have fellowship with the Father and the Son by the Holy Spirit.
Now
anything beyond the above requirement for salvation is opinion.
Does that mean we can't discuss the things around the edges? No. As long as those things do not come between our fellowship. As long as those things do not take precedent over a human being. As long as we remember through Christ we are to love each other.
Sing
F Lau
Two
men, both believing the passage heartily, one is a free-willer, and another
grace alone; one a gospel regenerationist, another 'without gospel means; one
believes in order to have life, the other believes because he has been given
life; one believes that Christ died for all, the other 'for His sheep only'...
etc etc...
Do
you think fellowship is possible between these two BROTHERS?
Suzanne
Lundy Burnes
Yes,
they can be brothers. It is all about Christ. We submit to Him.
Then
we stand side by side at the throne of Grace. Modern song
'"He ain't heavly, He's my bother!" Modern enough?
Sing
F Lau
They
don't have to do anything to be brothers - that comes by divine doing.
As
Amos asked, "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?" When BOTH
are submitted to His teaching, then fellowship between two brothers is
POSSIBLE. This is an ancient truth.
I
prefer good ole hymns than modern song! <LOL>
Dan
England
Why
not. When doctrine takes the place of what Jesus did for us it is a cult.
Suzanne
Lundy Burnes
The
main thing about a CULT is the answer to "Who is Jesus?"
It
is all about Him.
Suzanne
Lundy Burnes
Back
to Brother.... We are brothers because we share the same father. WE share the
God of the Bible. Adonai Elohim. The God of Abraham Issac and Jacob.The father
that loved the world so much he sent his only begotten son to die for us. That
makes us brothers. Our Father.
Sing
F Lau
Yes
exactly, who is Jesus and what He has done! Some believe in a Jesus who only
made salvation possible. Others believe that Jesus died for all...some believe
in a hippy Jesus knocking pathetically at the heart-door of sinners heart...
there are all sorts of Jesus believed by all sort of people.
So
the good question is: who is Jesus? Indeed, it is ALL ABOUT HIM and WHAT HE has
done. When there is no agreement on that, fellowship is not possible.
Can
two BROTHERS walk together, except they be agreed?
Apostle
Paul even say that some brothers must be marked and be avoid. Others must be
excommunicated and treated as publicans!
So
brotherhood DOES NOT automatically guarantee fellowship. Brothers who share the
same Father may actually believe vastly difference things which make fellowship
impossible.
Dan
England
Its
only impossible if you make it impossible Sing.
Sing
F Lau
I
am a man under command, not what I like or dislike.
Eph
5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather
reprove them.
Believing
lies and error about Jesus is most definitely unfruitful works of darkness.
So,
you and I are under different commands. You are autonomous and does what is
right in your own eyes, and I will subject myself to my Master's command <LOL>
Suzanne
Lundy Burnes
I
am very old and I have studied a lot about the Lord. The more I study the more
I know I have so much to learn, So with humility I say I have made Yeshua,
Jesus Lord of my life and becasue of that I choose to love all others as
myself. I have love and brotherhood in my heart. It is very simple for me. Yet
very profound. The Holy Spirit, Ruach HaKodesh in Me has given me the vision,
power and wisdom to love unconditionally. I do not quibble over small issues. I
do not want to divide the body of Christ. There a pleanty of large issues. And
even with those. I can say "Father forgive them they know not what they
do." It is all about yeilding to Christ and obeying his will. Love the
Lord your God with all your soul and heart and strenth and love your neighbor
as yourself. It is simple We are responsible only for oursleves. We must judge
oursleves. Jesus will judge the rest.
Suzanne
Lundy Burnes
Well
my friend in the Lord in Malaysia. I am going to stop for tonight and sleep.
God less you and your family in Christ Jesus.
William
D Martin
Suzanne
Lundy Burnes, good preaching, I believe you were speaking right from the
throne. My sentiments exactly. If a person is my brother, has the same
spiritual Father, then the Spirit of God who lives in the two of us will cause
us to walk together in unity in the Spirit.
Sing
F Lau
Please
elaborate
Sing
F Lau
Now
I understand. Forensic man! Thanks.
To
a Chinese, very old means 90 and above.
'Old'
means 80 and above!
Sing
F Lau
Suzanne
Lundy Burnes, good preaching, I believe you were speaking right from the
throne. My sentiments exactly. If a person is my brother, has the same
spiritual Father, then the Spirit of God who lives in the two of us will cause
us to walk together in unity in the Spirit.'
=========
With
all due respect, that is just PURE SENTIMENTALISM!
EVEN
God can't walk with His wayward children, much less his children who are NOT
agreed walk together?
It
is not asked in vain, "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?"
Ain't no spirituality at all to take God's word in vain!
I
most certainly hope I would NOT have such woolly sentimentalism when I get
older!
Dan
England
"Can
two walk together, except they be agreed?"
If
your fellowship is with a man, no.
But
if your fellowship is with the Apostles and with the Father and His Son Christ
Jesus, yes. 1 John 1:1-4. The correct translation is the NASB
The
beauty of the Gospel and of what Christ Jesus has done for us in it is, silly
simpletons like myself can be saved and carried in the arms of His Holy Spirit
all the way to the Father on that glorious day when we are all called home to
meet Him!
"
in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the
Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me,
but also to all who have loved His appearing."
2
Timothy 4:8
And
indeed Lord Jesus the next verse is ours too:
"Make
every effort to come to me soon;"
Make
every effort to come to us soon Lord Jesus!
Suzanne
Lundy Burnes
Sing,
Good morning.
God
can walk with whoever he wants to walk with. Look at Jonah,.
Boy, he was wayward!!!!!, But God sent to fish to rescue him and in that situation, Jonah called out to God and God used Jonah ( rebellious as he was before) to go
to the biggest sinful city to preach repentance ....All for God's Glory.
Don't
miss the blessing of a BIG God who can love the sinner and hate sin. God will
use who he wants the way he wants. He is God. Right now we need to see more
come to repentance, to fall on their face before the living God, to receive His
son Jesus and be saved. I wonder if the time is short.
Those
who are believers walking still ( or again) in sin should be helped to return
to the Holy Life. You are right, God wants us to be Holy and blameless, but
that cannot happen without the Spirit of a loving God in us. Man in his sin
nature is hateful, judgemental, lustful, and self-centred wanting to play God
by judging everyone else. That is Jesus's job. The redeemed are to be kind,
generous, peaceful and full of grace. Our sweet aroma is pleasant to God.
May
I suggest you get Mathew Henrey's Commentary of the Entire Bible to add to your
studies. It was written in 1700 but is used widely today as still the most
respected commentary. John Whitfield read it four times...... the fourth time on
his knees.
Your
good perspective of God will enlarge greatly and your joy be made full as you
study along with your scriptures. God Bless your research...wise men still seek
Him.
Note. My husband is going as he often does to prison ministry all day today. He is living what he believes. He believes even murderers can repent and grow in the Lord. Instaed of excommunicating them like you would do. He is sharing the Good News of the Gospel and many are coming into the Kingdom. Every soul is important to God. Think about it. You do not join the sinner in his sin... you rescue him from his sin. ( of course, it is the Holy Spirit who actually does it, by the blood of Jesus for the Glory of God. . You just share the truth of the Word in love. )
Sing
F Lau
Good
night, I am knocking off after a long day. so, you have a good day. I am going
to sleep soundly for the Lord's day worship tomorrow.
God
is God and is answerable to no one. He is indeed BIG... VERY BIG. However, as a
child of God, I am under His authority. I do what He commands. Others would do
what seems right in their own eyes.
What
makes you think I would ex-communicate prisoners?
Speak some sense, please! How to ex-communicate someone who is not even a member of the church to begin with? And if church members are imprisoned for their crime, then I would counsel them, they suffer justly.
Dan
England
"I do what He commands. Others would do what seems right in their own
eyes."
Alas,
you validate Suzanne Lundy Burnes thought Sing. Apart from what Paul declares
is the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15, everything else is opinion. And what you
said in the quotes above, everyone who calls themself a believer, their
statement too.
This
makes Christs imperative even more imperative:
John 13:35 "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."
Suzanne
Lundy Burnes
Sing.
If you do what He cammands then you live a sanctified, Holy life in love because
the love of God dwells in you. ( actually IN you!) I guess what has me so
concerned about this discussion is that you seem to feel you are to judge
others. We are to be strict with ourselves allowing nothing evil into our
spirit man. But we are to love others with the patient, kind, love of Christ.
It has taken me years where I do not subconsciously judge others. It was a real
struggle with my flesh nature! "why weren't they all strong Christians like
me!' How arrogant I was! . I wish someone has talked to me about that when I
was in my 40's or 50's. But I kept it hid. It was for me, and can be for a you,
a sumbling block to the fullness of Christ and the POWER of the Gospel. (I
don't quote scripture to you because I see none of the people discussing as
"babes" but knowers of the word.) You can take
scripture
out of context. Look at the BIG Picture, Sing! "God so loved the World
that ...." That is the Big Picture. Pray about this to the Father. Ask him
outright. He will answer. "Father God Adonai, am I, Sing, supposed to
judge others?" Then listen. He will show you in His word. He will
miraculously bring someone across your path or he will tell you in His
"still small voice" and confirm His word by another. Preachers and
teachers are held to a higher standard and need to see clearly if they are to
be commissioned by The Holy Spirit himself for readiness and gifts to
evangelism. Romans 13: 8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one
another." Oops. I said I would not quote. But could not resist. LOL in
joy. So Sing, " Put on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for
the flesh in regard to lust. Judgementalism is a form of lust; lust to be
superior.
That is not God's best for you. Jesus wants you to love your neighbour as yourself. On earth we are neighbours.
Dan
England
Richard,
can you tell me how it is one gets saved according to your doctrine? And why my
terminology bothers you? Is it my use of the NASB too?
Suzanne
Lundy Burnes
Richard
you asked me about CHANCE. I do not know what that is. I have never heard
anything about it. Can you tell me where to find it.
Then
I can answer your question.
Suzanne
Lundy Burnes
Richard, I too do not accept the watered-down versions of the scriptures. I do use an
old OPEN NASB that I have gone back and rewritten in the margins the original
meaning of many of the Hebrew and Greek words so that it reads correctly
according to ancient text. I do think the King James is WONDERFUL... but hard
to read for some people. The Matthew Henry Commentary I recommended to Sing
has King James. Since I study many hours each day with all the books and read
from book to book I do get the King James. Good. Are you aware that the Greek is
not really Greek? It has many made-up words because there were not words in
Greek for many of the Jewish ways of the Bible you would LOVE Mathew Henry. Even
though it is 300 years old it is not hard to understand at all. Here is what
Charles Spurgeon said about it. (In many versions the font is too small to read.
Hence, we got the 6-volume version)
Here
is what Charles H Spurgeon said about it.
"First
among the mighty (commentaries) for general usefulness we are bound to mention
that man whose name is a household word, Matthew Henry. He is the most pious
and pithy, sound and sensible, suggestive and sober, terse and trustworthy....
he is deeply spiritual, heavenly, profitable finding good matter in every
text,, and from all deducting the most practical and judicious lessons... It
is the Christians' companion, suitable for everybody, instructive, to all. "
Hope that helps. We got ours ( a second copy) for under $40 this year.
Suzanne
Lundy Burnes
Just
use a concordance like Youngs or Strongs. It is a place to begin.
Understanding
scripture is not only about what you read but in what context and,to whom it
is written for what purpose, in what language. It all works together like a dance
in perfect step. The VERY MOST important thing I tell my students is to pray
for discernment by the Holy Spirit BEFORE they study. Always!
I, every day, ask for a fresh infilling and anointing by the Holy Spirit before I study. What a difference it makes. New revelations are normal and constant in the fresh study of the Living Word. It is all about Jesus from Cover to cover. Glory to His marvellous Name.
Suzanne
Lundy Burnes
I
do not like to insult or slam teachers ( Kay Arthur) or preachers. Just try to
bring up points to consider. But lets just say that I find most currrent
teaching mostly fluff. ( Tapes Books Ralleys like in MLM)MOre need to be taught
for nothing in return but the joy in spreading the gospel. That's what I do. I
will not take money.God provides for me himself.
You ask about me. I just teach and counsel ladies. I work as a volunteer professional photographer (that is my profession too ) to help all American orphans get adopted. Most have been neglected and abused. Then I also take photographs of lifetime missionaries to help spread the gospel. This is all a gift to the Lord from me. I not only tithe my money but also my time and talent. So I wear many hats to serve God and love His hurting people. As far as teaching. I use only the Bible and stick to it, word for word.
Dan
England
Richard,
if your salvation is too complicated to be understood or explained clearly, it
is not from God.
Sing
F Lau
Ah,
I have a blessed worship service this morning.
The
message was from 2The 1:11-12.
I
see you have been busy conversing!
May
our Lord give humility and light to learn from His word.
Sing
F Lau
"Richard,
if your salvation is too complicated to be understood or explained clearly, it
is not from God."
=====
The
more likely explanation is that the gospel of grace revealed in the Scriptures
may come across as too complicated for those whose minds have been prejudiced... in
whose mind, man is involved in some oblique manner in his eternal salvation!
It
is silly to dismiss the seemingly complicated things as 'clearly it is not from
God.' Please use your brain.
Paul
said this to the Hebrews:
"11
Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull
of hearing.
12
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you
again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such
as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13
For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he
is a babe.
14
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by
reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."
Dan
England
Wel,l
in the Gospel of Jesus that Paul preached, "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME
OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
Except
in Richard and Sing's doctrine. That imperative, "WILL" is only in
force if it is passed through the "private interpretation" of Richard
and Sing!
I
have been saved many years and so far have found this biblical truth to be
true:
"WHOEVER
BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
Now, according to Richard and Sing...well lets just say I am so glad God saves fools. I was simple enough to believe that Jesus heard me when I cried out to Him. I cannot take you to the time but I can take you to the place. And say, "This is where I was born again!"
Sing
F Lau
Dan,
please provide evidence that I have said such things attributed to me above,
otherwise, you make yourself a LIAR and false accuser.
"WHOEVER
WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
Now
please tell us who are the 'whoever' that will call on the name of the Lord.
And
tell us what is the salvation that is spoken of?
If
you can't answer these two questions correctly, you have NOT NOT NOT properly
understood the teaching of the Apostle Paul.
Dan
England
Whoever
is anyone who hears the Gospel of Jesus Christ and believes, and whoever they
are will receive as a gift the Righteousness of God Himself found only in
Christ Jesus His Son. The salvation is safety from that damnation that the
devil Lucifer and his demons will soon experience. Salvation is being
transferred by God from the domain of darkness to the Kingdom of Light. To
Christ's Kingdom! Which I and all who have loved His appearing will enjoy. And
both are that which NO MAN can take from us!
Suzanne
Lundy Burnes
Good
morning my friend far away.Sing
Preach
on in the good faith of our Lord. Great scripture you used this morning. We
must put on the helmet of salvation to protect our brain so that when we hear
the delusion we can have the Wisdom to discern the deception
and stand in the Truth of the Gospel.
Many
gifts at work in the spiritual battles. To be a soldier against delusion we must
be trained in the gospel rightly.
This
teaching is most interesting when read in the entire context.
(Note
God sent deluding influence because they did not receive the L O V E of the
truth to be saved. ) Maranatha.
I have no idea how I got into this conversation ( Via William D Martin who I know) as I am NEW to Facebook. Is this called CHAT?
Suzanne
Lundy Burnes
Oops, I read the wrong verse. 1 Thessalonians 2:11-12 is still interesting. Please
disregard my comments. Big Mistake. Sorry 🙁
Suzanne
Lundy Burnes
My
fingers go too fast when I am rushing to church. 2 Thes 2:11-12
That
was the wrong verse I read. Still Sorry.... LOL at myself
Sing
F Lau
Dan,
let me ask further:
who
is that anyone who will hear the gospel and believe?
Him
who is still dead in trespasses and sins or him whom the Lord HAS SAVED and
given eternal life?
Who
will believe the gospel UT one whom God has bestowed eternal salvation?
Who
will ever call upon the Lord UNLESS God has saved him with eternal salvation?
And
if it is one whom the Lord has saved with eternal salvation can call upon the
Lord, then what is that salvation that will come upon him who call on the Lord?
The
eternal salvation bestowed freely that enables a man to call upon the Lord and
the salvation that will come upon calling on the name of the CANNOT POSSIBLY be
the same salvation. Do you understand this simple truth yet? I don't think you
do.
So,
let me put it simpler for you.
The
life that your parents gives you that enable you to live, and the life that you
will get from your living CAN NOT POSSIBLY be the same life, can they?
Let's
stay close to the subject at hand.
Suzanne
Lundy Burnes
Sing.
Wonderful to teach the fruit of 2 Thessalonians 1 :11-12
Amen!!!!
